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Old November 30th, 2006, 03:14 AM   #301
LDN_EUROPE
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Don't take me as being anti-Paris. I actually think Paris is the most beautiful city in the world (much more 'beautiful' than LDN) but at the moment I don't like this tower.

I hope it will 'grow on me' though. I hope it will be the kind of building that takes time to appreciate or is ahead of its time. On the pocitive side its quite sculptural.
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Old November 30th, 2006, 03:16 AM   #302
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrispic View Post
Lol, the war between French and English, between those which love this tower and those which hate it!

For my part, I was disappointed enough in my initial reaction, hot, but now, I appreciate it more and more, I would even say that I love it To say that this tower is ugly, it's exaggerated.

IMO, Phare represents the tower of anticipation, that of the years 2030/2050, who is super class, who is connected to all and everything, who rises in the sky... She looks like the city of Atlantis (Stargate) or the architecture of Alderaan (Star Wars).

Well, a very unique tower, can't wait to be in 2012...

To say that it looks anything like Atlantis City Ship is preposterous ... there are no elements that even relate. Atlantian design is shown to be far more geometric/crystalline and the towers of the city ship are elegant and well formed ... unlike this bulbous and blobby bimorphic catastrophy. It is ugly.

As if the tower looks anything alike.
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Old November 30th, 2006, 05:59 AM   #303
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Originally Posted by JP View Post
they don't recognize it now, but further? Do you think Eiffel Tower was in 1888, before its construction recognized as we do it for now, in 2006? and what about Beaubourg? about Swiss Re?
Why we should build something recognizable at present and not for tomorrow? It's a bet for sure... that much more exciting than to apply our current aestetical values.
Don't get me wrong, I love diversity and new styles, and LD surely needed some new blood, but I don't think we need the signal tower to be so radically boring and uninteresting. It's just a blob, sitting there, and the only thing one wants to do is think of how to blow it up and destroy it.

My personal taste is to have a diverse city, wall to wall buildings, of different styles. I dislike the great haussmanian boulevards when they're so boring and trite, but once they destroy some buildings, and add some glass, some steel, some colors, and some height, all of a sudden it looks amazing.
Just like Beaubourg, it's a standalone, in the middle of the conformity, with a radical design that contrasts and clases with the rest. I like that.
I would love to see a glass and steel highrise built in the center of Paris, right next to the Louvre, or as an annex to the Conciergerie, if we are to talk about landmarks, that is something that will hit and mark Paris.
But this blob, it does nothing, it's amorphous as people say, it doesn't have any real shape, anything to give you interest, anything to really become a landmark. Except height. That, it has, but it uses height to tell you "hey, look at my fat ass and my bad hairdo on my head", it doesn't give a positive image of LD, it doesn't give a sense of power, of respect, instead it's this uninviting building, that just changes shape, you don't know what exactly it is, you don't know what to do with it, and you get angry because you can't categorize it, now Foucault will be happy with this, but when it's highrise architecture, this just doesn't work, because this tower will sit as an intruder in LD, people would put aside and wish to forget, because it doesn't give you a real hold. It slips through your hands, that's not a highrise. That's what a lowrise can be, something like a bar of soap or some squishee, but, here's the deal, for a skyscraper, no, a supertall, since that's what it was supposed to be, it doesn't give you a real phallic sense of strenght and elegant dynamic flow, it doesn't give you a pressure of power to explode as a crystallized tower like the BoAt in NYC gives you, it doesn't have the elegance of the NYTT, it doesn't have the power of an art deco model, doesn't give you the real deconstructionist view of a tower, but just a huge failed attempt to provoke at the base, and then it gives you this failed attempt to be a basket, perhaps even worse than the hypergreen tower (which I also dislike), because in effect it's either all, or it's none at all, you can't have this bad mix. It has to be all organic at the top, no need to give us that trail of steel bars at the top, they should instead put a shiny dome, something to really exert and focus the light coming from within the building, now it's just lost through this hole, it's unfinished, and once again, it makes you want to beat up this tower because it isn't coherent.

Now, the Grande Arche, I don't see what's wrong with it, even now it would fit anywhere, it's eternal, a basic cube, it's undestructible, you can see through it, but you can't break it. The CNIT though, bof bof, it's like the Millenium dome to me, concrete is nice, but on the long run, it's boring, that's why nobody really wanted any of Corbusier's plans. Sure, they did it on small scales, and I love the Albany empire plaza, it's so cold even on a hot july day, you feel small and crushed, but yet it gives you a sense of real power.

Now back to this blob, it gives out absolutely nothing, it looks powerless, it doesn't scare you, it doesn't impress you, it makes you want to beat it up, it makes you want to go and spit on it and throw eggs.

Blah, I don't think any other tower has ever made me this angry, mostly because I expected a real material modern structure, that uses it size to crush everything around it with its rays of genius, now it's a blob that instead gives out a foul smell to the rest of the district.
Had it been some smaller 200m tower and put in some corner of LD, I would have liked it, because it would fit with the rest, but now, this is a 300m tower that is supposed to be the new face of LD. Now that's a scandal.

@Brisavoine, I sure hope there is another tower, and they better not smoke any dope before choosing the winning design this time.
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Old November 30th, 2006, 06:40 AM   #304
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brisavoine View Post
You're focussing way too much on this Thom Mayne's tower. This is just an appetizer. The main course will come after the presidential election next May when Jacques Chirac leaves office and they can finally launch the long-awaited 400 meters tower to the left of the Grand Arche. On the renderings issued by La D?fense Authority (EPAD), the tallest skyscraper has always been to the left of the Grande Arche (i.e. opposite Thom Mayne's tower).
please, don't feed dream that are not realistics..

you know well , just as me, that there is NO plans for a 400 m towers which "wait that Jacques chirac leaves office (if ever de does)" to be released

this is just speculation, plus talking about the election, they even could have a bad effect on current La defense projects...

so let's be honnest here
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Old November 30th, 2006, 06:41 AM   #305
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I looks alot like Grimace from Maccas.

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Old November 30th, 2006, 01:24 PM   #306
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The tower will have 68 floors

http://www.dezeen.com/?p=33#more-33
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Old November 30th, 2006, 01:39 PM   #307
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The tower will have public spaces including a 60m-high atrium, gardens, cafes, shops plus an observation deck and sky restaurant.

http://www.dezeen.com/?p=33#more-33
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Old November 30th, 2006, 02:04 PM   #308
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I'd like to change my view. Now that I saw the back of this tower on http://www.dezeen.com/?p=33#more-33 I understand why there is this spike at mid-level on the left elevation of the rendering we have seen so far... and the back of the tower makes me puke... literally. It looks like they skinned the tower or like a pregnant lady who lost her leg and got an artificial limb. Or like a body someone put the knife into a human body to slice off a part. Or like half of the tower was blasted away by a nuclear explosion. It looks really hellish or an embodyment of decline! No surprise nobody has posted that rendering here. Which company will want to move into that tower?

I like the front, I like the hair, I love the entrance, but the back... my god, were they on dope!




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Old November 30th, 2006, 02:07 PM   #309
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Does this tower require a pre-let before construction?
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Old November 30th, 2006, 02:23 PM   #310
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This Tour Signal is just amazing. You can only love it or hate it.

Me, I think it's so radically innovative and rare and unseen and strange and spectacular that I have deeply fallen in love with it.

Congrats to Paris and to France.

And to Europe (this way I can congratulate me as well )

And to the world, actually.

I love it!
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Old November 30th, 2006, 02:44 PM   #311
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyril View Post
The tower will have 68 floors
http://www.dezeen.com/?p=33#more-33
68 floors above the 60m-high atrium (which is itself as high as 8 floors)?
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Old November 30th, 2006, 03:03 PM   #312
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Originally Posted by brisavoine View Post
68 floors above the 60m-high atrium (which is itself as high as 8 floors)?
No, the floors start at a lower level, have a look at the picture above and you will see. The atrium is only part of the base.
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Old November 30th, 2006, 03:08 PM   #313
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Originally Posted by DarJoLe View Post
Does this tower require a pre-let before construction?
Most buildings built in LD don't.
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Old November 30th, 2006, 03:10 PM   #314
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3tmk
Don't get me wrong, I love diversity and new styles, and LD surely needed some new blood, but I don't think we need the signal tower to be so radically boring and uninteresting. It's just a blob, sitting there, and the only thing one wants to do is think of how to blow it up and destroy it.

My personal taste is to have a diverse city, wall to wall buildings, of different styles. I dislike the great haussmanian boulevards when they're so boring and trite, but once they destroy some buildings, and add some glass, some steel, some colors, and some height, all of a sudden it looks amazing.
Just like Beaubourg, it's a standalone, in the middle of the conformity, with a radical design that contrasts and clases with the rest. I like that.
I would love to see a glass and steel highrise built in the center of Paris, right next to the Louvre, or as an annex to the Conciergerie, if we are to talk about landmarks, that is something that will hit and mark Paris.
But this blob, it does nothing, it's amorphous as people say, it doesn't have any real shape, anything to give you interest, anything to really become a landmark. Except height. That, it has, but it uses height to tell you "hey, look at my fat ass and my bad hairdo on my head", it doesn't give a positive image of LD, it doesn't give a sense of power, of respect,
...
as i said here few pages before, we have enough of "big, strong and linear dicks" in La Defesne and all around the world... so let open your eyes and open your mind
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Old November 30th, 2006, 03:12 PM   #315
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No, the floors start at a lower level, have a look at the picture above and you will see. The atrium is only part of the base.
Floors on the small building start at ground level, but on the main building they start only at the 9th floor where the lobby is located. That's what press announcements said. When forumers on the French forum counted the number of floors, they added the number of visible floors from the lobby + 8 floors.

Now what I wonder is whether in the link above they mean 68 floors from the ground level of the small building to the top of the main building, or 68 floors from the elevated lobby of the main building.
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Old November 30th, 2006, 03:19 PM   #316
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[QUOTE=JGG;10676869] the back of the tower makes me puke... literally. It looks like they skinned the tower or like a pregnant lady who lost her leg and got an artificial limb. Or like a body someone put the knife into a human body to slice off a part. Or like half of the tower was blasted away by a nuclear explosion. It looks really hellish or an embodyment of decline!

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Old November 30th, 2006, 03:46 PM   #317
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please, don't feed dream that are not realistics..

you know well , just as me, that there is NO plans for a 400 m towers which "wait that Jacques chirac leaves office (if ever de does)" to be released

this is just speculation, plus talking about the election, they even could have a bad effect on current La defense projects...

so let's be honnest here
Don't forget that the La D?fense redevelopment plan is in two stages: stage 1 (2006-2013) and stage 2 (2013-2020). 8 or 9 towers/buildings will be demolished and rebuilt in each stage, and on top of these some extra towers will be built on currently empty lots. During stage 1 we already have this Thoms Mayne's ca. 300m tower built on an empty lot. We should also have the Ministry of Public Works tower. Many people on the French forum believe (and I agree with them) that the 400m tower will be built during stage 2 on the remaining empty lots (either above the Rose de Cherbourg road interchange or near the interchange where the Avenue du Pr?sident Wilson meets the Boulevard Circulaire, these two spots were indicated by La D?fense Authority (EPAD) as potential sites for a supertall).

Concerning Jacques Chirac, it's undeniable that he was the conservative force behind the current height restraint. All hints that we got from people in the know point to him. I can't see how his departure wouldn't change something.

Finally, concerning the presidential election, I don't see how it could have a bad effect on the projects. France is not the Soviet Union. In France there's rule of law and free market. The State cannot behave as if the country was some sort of communist dictatorship. If this was a public project funded by public money, then yes a new president could potentially halt the project, same as what happened in 1997 when Jospin became prime-minister and they stopped the Rhine-Rhone canal and decommissioned the Super-Phenix nuclear reactor. But this is a private project funded by private money. The only thing the new presidential administration could do would be to refuse issuing a building permit, but then as there is rule of law as I said, Unibail could sue the French State. The French State is so indebted, they can hardly afford a multi-million euros lawsuit. They'll think twice before they do anything.
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Old November 30th, 2006, 04:03 PM   #318
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Originally Posted by brisavoine View Post
Concerning Jacques Chirac, it's undeniable that he was the conservative force behind the current height restraint. All hints that we got from people in the know point to him. I can't see how his departure wouldn't change something.
You're the only one sure that Chirac as something to do with the height restriction on this project, Brisavoine...
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Old November 30th, 2006, 04:10 PM   #319
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nadlor View Post
This Tour Signal is just amazing. You can only love it or hate it.

Me, I think it's so radically innovative and rare and unseen and strange and spectacular that I have deeply fallen in love with it.

Congrats to Paris and to France.

And to Europe (this way I can congratulate me as well )

And to the world, actually.

I love it!
i read about this tower on my local newspaper today...
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Old November 30th, 2006, 04:17 PM   #320
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I love this tower more and more, the back si awesome!
I heard that the top of the tower will be a public place...
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