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Old December 3rd, 2006, 05:42 PM   #401
eklips
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Seriously 3tmk, you're getting a bit annoying, everybody got your point
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Old December 3rd, 2006, 06:12 PM   #402
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3tmk View Post
Goody Good, I don't mind this tower, however what I do mind is the fact that it's supposed to be, first of all, 300m tall, second of all the new symbol of LD, and third of all, has had so much publicity to convince people that it's magnificient. You tell me that I am childish, but what about the publicity made all over the medias where they spread the Unibail propaganda, to convince exactly those easily manipulated people who, in the end, don't know much about skyscrapers, and just because PPDA said it will be a new landmark they'll all believe him.
I am just countering them. And it's not because it's new that it's good.
Many people liked the idea of fascism when it came out, luckily a few people had the balls to say it like it is, instead of following the trend (I know it's a stupid example but at least it gives you an idea of the situation).

Again, people call it groundbreaking, I don't think so. It is just a poorly made mix. Organic and deconstructism can work together, but Mayne doesn't know how to do it and keep the tower beautiful. You can give it all the meanings in the world, but in the end it's physical beauty that counts, don't believe all that crap about inner beauty and say the tower has personality. Because Josiane Balasko can have a lot of personality but you will never be attracted to her. In the world of architecture, it is only when both mix that it works. Of course it comes down to taste, but when even I, who champions diversity and have a very broad range, cannot digest this nontower as the new symbol of LD, it tells you that this will never work.
On the other hand, if you people still want to send a message that you're queer you're here and you want to be heard, then why not make this a lowrise, or some midrise, put in some corner of LD, and not have to ruin the towers around it.
There are two kinds of ugly and bad. The kind that just brings out the beauty in average towers, or the kind that just brings down everything else around it. This is the second kind. Its fat ass would hide other interesting towers like Framatome, Total or the Grande Arche.

Hey dude , here it is INTERNATIONAL FORUM...You are not in FRANCE here !!!

do you think in your little mind that every one in the world knows PPDA (famous french News anchor man), Josiane Balasko (not so cute early 80's french actress) or even FRAMATOME tower (a classic round black tower in La defense now known as AREVA Tower).

I don't understand those people who come into the international forum and act as if they were speaking only for french people

if you want to speak to french people , stay on the french speaking forum !!!!
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Old December 3rd, 2006, 06:22 PM   #403
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Heck, I'm giving my opinion as long as I keep it fresh

Kony, PPDA was because of that gif they made not long ago here, Balasko was because she's the biggest loud fat ugly woman I could remember (although I should have used Rosie o'Donnell instead), and for Framatome, I forgot the new name is Areva, but even then, it's the name of the tower, what am I supposed to call it? The Fiat building?
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Old December 3rd, 2006, 06:34 PM   #404
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3tmk View Post
Heck, I'm giving my opinion as long as I keep it fresh

Kony, PPDA was because of that gif they made not long ago here, Balasko was because she's the biggest loud fat ugly woman I could remember (although I should have used Rosie o'Donnell instead), and for Framatome, I forgot the new name is Areva, but even then, it's the name of the tower, what am I supposed to call it? The Fiat building?

you almost got my point...
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Old December 3rd, 2006, 07:08 PM   #405
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Well according to some people here I'm retarded because I cannot grasp the beauty of this nontower, so I guess it takes me longer to understand your point completely.

And when are works supposed to start?
From what I understand it should be completed by 2012, and construction should start in 2009, because this isn't the final design, but why does it take them 3... well 2 years to get the final result?
I can understand the problems with the Freedom Tower, too many expectations made it impossible to build anything, but in this case, it seems a bit long to me
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Old December 3rd, 2006, 09:05 PM   #406
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3tmk View Post
Well according to some people here I'm retarded because I cannot grasp the beauty of this nontower, so I guess it takes me longer to understand your point completely.

And when are works supposed to start?
From what I understand it should be completed by 2012, and construction should start in 2009, because this isn't the final design, but why does it take them 3... well 2 years to get the final result?
I can understand the problems with the Freedom Tower, too many expectations made it impossible to build anything, but in this case, it seems a bit long to me
WELL i don't see what u mean...3 years seem normal to me to build such a tower...shorter towers make 3 years to be built in france, so this is not long
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Old December 3rd, 2006, 09:13 PM   #407
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No, not to build it, but why would construction start in 2009 instead of, say, end of 2007?
The demand isn't pressing yet?
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Old December 3rd, 2006, 09:25 PM   #408
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3tmk View Post
No, not to build it, but why would construction start in 2009 instead of, say, end of 2007?
The demand isn't pressing yet?
OH VERY SIMPLE : THIS IS FRANCE !!!

you have all those administrative stuff to take care of , then nimbys trial to stop...

no more seriously (because project gets delayed in ALL countries except Dubai !!!), i heard that a part of the land the tower is supposed to be built on, belongs to the state or State-owned organisations (like transport, or electricity companies etc...)...

so basically it will take time to negotiate all this between the promotor (Unibail) and La defense State Urban planner "Epad"...

Plus don't forget all the technical studies and ingeneering, then ''permit to build" application..

all this is a very long process...

actually it's already 2007 in 1 month...consider that

Last edited by kony; December 3rd, 2006 at 09:30 PM.
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Old December 3rd, 2006, 09:30 PM   #409
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The studies are not finished, look for same dimension the LBT of London was announced at the beginning of 2005 and construction must begin mid 2007 for a tower finished in 2010.
Moreover, the restoration of the CNIT by Unibail must be made before (2007-2008) and the "circular boulevard" must be refitted before the tower is built above.
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Old December 3rd, 2006, 09:39 PM   #410
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Wasn't LBT announced in 2001?
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Old December 3rd, 2006, 09:40 PM   #411
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Yes, it's a difficult location to build, but I consider the boulevard works and the CNIT connection to be part of the whole construction.
But I've always assumed that they already have all the legal work done or ready to be done, since it was part of EPAD's LD2013 plans, and all they really needed was to pick a design, refurbish it to fit better the location, file quickly the papers which would quickly be processed because of state pressure, and basta, they close the boulevard and start building
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Old December 3rd, 2006, 09:47 PM   #412
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the thing is the contest winner was just announced last week...technical studies for such a tower can take 1 year or more...so in any case it will take at least till end of 2007 for studies only...that is if the technical studies begins today

but i guess there is some juridic issues to go through with the winner in order to finalize all this...

considering the complexity of finalizing a juridic contract available for france and the USA could take more than 3 months...then technical studies may begin -----> look for an end of those technical studies in spring 2008


all french administrative issues (negotiate and prepare land, apply for and obtain permit to build etc...) could be resolved during a period that i will estimate between mid-2007 to fall 2008

then you're almost in 2009 !

and that is the optimistic vision
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Old December 3rd, 2006, 09:59 PM   #413
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dougfr69 View Post
The studies are not finished, look for same dimension the LBT of London was announced at the beginning of 2005 and construction must begin mid 2007 for a tower finished in 2010.
Moreover, the restoration of the CNIT by Unibail must be made before (2007-2008) and the "circular boulevard" must be refitted before the tower is built above.
The LBT was announced before that I'm sure.
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Old December 3rd, 2006, 10:04 PM   #414
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where are the windows? Oo
Looks some kind of weird I think.... Doesn't match that real to La Defense
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Old December 3rd, 2006, 10:16 PM   #415
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LBT was first announced in 2000, and is scheduled for completion in 2011.
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Old December 3rd, 2006, 10:42 PM   #416
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That was the old design though, the current LBT has been around for a shorter length of time. That doesn't really make a difference though lol.
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Old December 3rd, 2006, 10:58 PM   #417
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3tmk View Post
Heck, I'm giving my opinion as long as I keep it fresh

Kony, PPDA was because of that gif they made not long ago here, Balasko was because she's the biggest loud fat ugly woman I could remember (although I should have used Rosie o'Donnell instead), and for Framatome, I forgot the new name is Areva, but even then, it's the name of the tower, what am I supposed to call it? The Fiat building?

humm. ididnt copy the big message from before ... it was already enough to read that crap once.
3tmk, im really wondering how old you are. not that im interesting in you. but if you are maybe alround 15, i would understand your juvenile message, but if you are more than 25 .... i would really think you have a much bigger problem that the tour phare. And i would tell you that sending messages like the ones you do will not change anything to your problem.
i really don't see how balasko or fascism can help people to c if this tower is ugly or not.
i will advice you if u have nothing interesting to talk about this tower and architecture to keep your mind for you.
merci.
message from UK.
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Old December 3rd, 2006, 11:37 PM   #418
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Europeo View Post
humm. ididnt copy the big message from before ... it was already enough to read that crap once.
3tmk, im really wondering how old you are. not that im interesting in you. but if you are maybe alround 15, i would understand your juvenile message, but if you are more than 25 .... i would really think you have a much bigger problem that the tour phare. And i would tell you that sending messages like the ones you do will not change anything to your problem.
i really don't see how balasko or fascism can help people to c if this tower is ugly or not.
i will advice you if u have nothing interesting to talk about this tower and architecture to keep your mind for you.
merci.
message from UK.
I'm exactly 15, how did you guess, but I do know how to spell.
Now, again, what is the problem with my messages? I am giving an honest opinion to contrast and give an opposition to those who are let to applaud the tower, the same way I give interesting talks against it.
If this place was only to say "omg itz so kool", then how could we be having discussions? I am giving strong arguments to counter those made by the opposition, why should we let the Phare lovers influence people but not those who dislike it?
And what more interesting do you wish to talk about? How the 15th floor's bathrooms will have lavender scented toilet paper? Or the 41st floor's vending machines will sell minitwix snacks?
So please, if you have nothing interesting to argue, just keep your opinion to yourself, it's getting boring to see you people have nothing to say.

Kony, well therein lies the problem, I expected Mayne to have had at least started some intensive technical studies to at least present a viable way to build his tower... or we will end up with another of Liebeskind's Freedom Tower, where after a year they figure out it's impossible to build what that guy imagined, mostly because he has no skyscraper experience. A little like Mayne actually, it will be interesting to see what they end up modifying
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Old December 4th, 2006, 12:13 AM   #419
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edit: double post

Last edited by bnmaddict; December 4th, 2006 at 01:15 AM.
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Old December 4th, 2006, 12:15 AM   #420
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3tmk View Post
If this place was only to say "omg itz so kool", then how could we be having discussions? I am giving strong arguments to counter those made by the opposition, why should we let the Phare lovers influence people but not those who dislike it?


The thing you don't seem to understand is that you don't have to counter any arguments, every people except you and a couple of others are only giving their impression on the tower once, and your poor arguments will probably not change their minds! It's not a battleground or a fight! You don't have to convince, rally or fight anyone, really...

So you don't like the tower, fine! Find a new subject to focus on and move on. You'll see, you'll finally get over it, and wether you like it or not, this tower will be build.
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