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Old April 24th, 2008, 11:33 AM   #1641
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Interesting article in today's Berlingske Tidende:

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Nyt kæmpetårn mødt med skamros og skepsis

Det foreslåede byggeprojekt, der skal forbinde Østerbro og Langelinie, er originalt, og det vil i den grad gavne København med en samlet FN-by, lyder vurderingen fra flere fagfolk. Men også kritikere er kommet på banen.

Hver gang et nyt stort byggeprojekt i København bliver fremlagt, kan man være sikker på to ting: Det bliver præsenteret som »visonært« og »af international klasse«, men så snart tegningerne er lagt frem, kommer protesterne.

Sådan gik det med de planlagte højhuse på Krøyers Plads på Christianshavn og med den berømte arkitekt Norman Fosters tårn ved Tivoli.

I går blev tegninger og en model af et helt nyt kvarter i området omkring Marmormolen på Østerbro så lagt frem, og også denne gang inkluderer planerne et højhus. 140 meter højt skal det være ifølge den masterplan, som arkitektstuen 3 X Nielsen har udviklet sammen med Arealudviklingsselskabet og ATP, der står bag byggeriet. En 160 meter lang bro i 65 meters højde vil binde Østerbro sammen med Langelinie, mens DFDS-færgerne kan sejle under. Og Ikke mindst skal området rumme et helt nyt samlet hovedkvarter for FN i København.

Men selv om det nye byrum indbefatter et højhus og er nyskabende, kommer det ikke til at gå som med tidligere forliste projekter denne gang. I hvert fald ikke, hvis man skal tro arkitekten, der står bag.

»Debatten plejer at dreje sig meget om, hvor højhuse skal ligge. Og jeg kan sådan set godt forstå, at der er modstand mod Fosters højhus, der var placeret hvor det var, nemlig ved Tivoli. Men det her er en helt anden situation. Her er det lige op ad vandet, hvor det står som et vartegn,« siger Kim Herforth Nielsen fra 3 X Nielsen. Han har svært ved at se, hvad folk skulle have imod projektet, der blandt andet kommer til at bruge en grund, hvor UNESCOs har til huse i dag.

»I dag er det et område, der ikke bliver brugt til andet end lager. Det kan kun blive til det bedre, og det her er meget bedre,« siger han.

Visioner er at skabe mere tilgængelighed og liv i byen.

»Det bliver et bæredygtigt og tilgængeligt område med mange forskellige funktioner. Man kan arbejde og bo der, og samtidig får vi skabt en forbindelse mellem Østerbro og Langelinie – en mulighed man måske ikke umiddelbart havde tænkt på,« siger Kim Herforth Nielsen.

Direktør for Dansk Arkitektur Center, Kent Martinussen, er begejstret for projektet, som han kalder et godt brohoved for den langvarige udvikling af Nordhavnen.

»Det rummer en blanding af arbejdsliv som kontorer og erhverv, men også kultur, forretninger, hotel mm. Men det store scoop er, at FN vil placere en samlet repræsentation af aktiviteter på stedet. Det vil befæste København som en metropol,« siger Kent Martinussen, der karakteriserer selve den arkitektoniske udformning som »strategisk og funktionel« i sin forbindelse af Østerbro og Langelinie.

»En enorm gevinst«

Stadsarkitekt i København, Jan Christiansen, mener, at projektet på Marmormolen i den grad har en originalitet, der vil gavne byen.

»Det bliver en enorm gevinst for København. Dels at vi får et FN-område næsten som i New York, der er placeret ved indsejlingen til byen med masser af turisme og store krydstogtskibe og dels med nogle helt originale bygningsværker med højhuset, der forbinder broen,« siger Jan Christiansen.

Han husker de indædte protester på Christianshavn, der i 2004 bremsede de højhuse på Krøyers Plads, som den hollandske arkitekt Erick van Egeraat skulle have bygget. Men han kan ikke forestille sig, at det bliver det samme denne gang.

»På Christianshavn var de meget aggressive, men folk er blevet modigere. Det tager tid at vænne sig til, at København er blevet en metropol,« siger Jan Christiansen og peger på, at beboerne på Østerbro også tidligere har været mere positive over for højhuse.

»Det var jo faktisk sådan, at vi efter Krøyers Plads-projektet blev ringet op af lokalrådet på Østerbro, der spurgte, om det planlagte byggeri ikke kunne få lov at ligge på Østerbro,« fortæller han.

Raske protester

Men helt så let bliver det måske alligevel ikke. Allerede nu er kritikerne kommet på banen. Knud Elnegaard Josefson, der er talsmand for foreningen »Københavnere mod Fejlplacerede Højhuse«, siger til Berlingske Tidende, at foreningen har udtrykt sin skepsis over for projektet til ATP.

»Vi mener, at det er forkert at bygge så højt i et historisk følsomt område. Man burde i stedet satse på et projekt, der inddrager det historiske og autentiske i havneområdet. Det er der mange gode eksempler på fra byer som Amsterdam og London. Samtidig mener vi ikke, at projektet i nævneværdig grad tilgodeser kontakten til vandet i området. Tilgangen til vandet er en kvalitet ved Københavns Havn, som vi bør bevare mest muligt, særligt fordi den er gået tabt mange steder,« siger Knud Elnegaard Josefson.

Samtidig påpeger han, at højhuse i den størrelse har et energiforbrug, der er fem gange så stort som det femetagers byggeri, der er mest udbredt i København. Det skyldes blandt andet, at højhuse udsættes for meget højere vindhastigheder og derfor afkøles langt mere end lavere byggeri.

»Vi har endnu til gode at høre nogle virkelig gode argumenter for at bygge høje huse som dette. Man hører ofte argumentet, at et hus kan blive et vartegn for et byområde, men det er som om man ser bort fra, at stederne allerede rummer vartegn i form af deres historie. For eksempel sagde man om husene på Krøyers Plads at de kunne blive et vartegn for Christianshavn uden at tage hensyn til, at området i forvejen havde markante vartegn som blandt andet Vor Frelsers Kirke,« siger Knud Elnegaard Josefson.

Uanfægtet Kramer

Men det lod Jens Kramer Mikkelsen, der er adm. direktør for Arealudviklingsselskabet, sig til gengæld ikke mærke af, da han i går præsenterede projektet:

»Der vil da helt sikkert komme forskellige synspunkter, men jeg tror, de fleste vil synes, at det her er en spændende og visionær overordnet plan.«

Mange projekter er strandet på grund af folkelig modstand?

»Ja, ja, men det gør det her ikke.«

Hvordan kan du være så sikker på det?

»Det kan jeg jo heller ikke, men jeg synes, at den bærende idé er så spændende og god. Men nu må vi jo se i den debat, der kommer nu,« siger Kramer Mikkelsen.
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Old April 24th, 2008, 11:43 AM   #1642
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Quote:
»Vi mener, at det er forkert at bygge så højt i et historisk følsomt område. Man burde i stedet satse på et projekt, der inddrager det historiske og autentiske i havneområdet. Det er der mange gode eksempler på fra byer som Amsterdam og London. Samtidig mener vi ikke, at projektet i nævneværdig grad tilgodeser kontakten til vandet i området. Tilgangen til vandet er en kvalitet ved Københavns Havn, som vi bør bevare mest muligt, særligt fordi den er gået tabt mange steder,« siger Knud Elnegaard Josefson.



»Vi har endnu til gode at høre nogle virkelig gode argumenter for at bygge høje huse som dette. Man hører ofte argumentet, at et hus kan blive et vartegn for et byområde, men det er som om man ser bort fra, at stederne allerede rummer vartegn i form af deres historie. For eksempel sagde man om husene på Krøyers Plads at de kunne blive et vartegn for Christianshavn uden at tage hensyn til, at området i forvejen havde markante vartegn som blandt andet Vor Frelsers Kirke,« siger Knud Elnegaard Josefson.
I'm not born and raised in Copenhagen so I maybe not know all about Copenhagen history but what history are we talking about when it comes to this part of town?
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Old April 24th, 2008, 11:53 AM   #1643
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Øland, that guy is downright crazy. We need to get in and qualify the debate and make sure these people don't succeed in taking the agenda.
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Old April 24th, 2008, 11:59 AM   #1644
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In another article I found these interesting comments from Kramer Mikkelsen:

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»Vi har valgt at gå i luften med det så tidligt, fordi vi gerne vil vise alle, hvad det er, vi går og arbejder med. Derfor må man ikke tage alt for pålydende, da der vil komme mange justeringer hen ad vejen, og så skal borgerne naturligvis også inddrages. Men det ligger helt fast, at der kommer to bygninger og en bro imellem. Om tårnet lige bliver 140 meter eller lidt mindre ved jeg ikke.«

Det nye kvarter findes endnu kun som model, men i løbet af 2012 forventes det, at FNs nye kontorer vil stå færdige. Ud over FNs cirka 45.000 kvadratmeter, vil bydelen bestå af både boliger, hotel og erhverv. En meget løs tidshorisont er, at det hele vil stå færdigt senest i 2015.
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Old April 24th, 2008, 12:04 PM   #1645
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Where's the last article from?
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Old April 24th, 2008, 12:05 PM   #1646
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fab 5 View Post
Øland, that guy is downright crazy. We need to get in and qualify the debate and make sure these people don't succeed in taking the agenda.
Their little tea-club's real name is probably more like "Københavnere mod Højhuse".
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Old April 24th, 2008, 12:14 PM   #1647
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ØlandDK View Post

Where's the last article from?
It's also off Berlingske.
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Old April 24th, 2008, 12:14 PM   #1648
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Well, what area in Copenhagen isn't historical sensitive!!! It is the perfect spot for such a project, and the socalled historical dimension is simply rubish, especially for an already artificial area of Copenhagen which isn't very old.

I also saw a spokesman for DN in TV2 Lorry yesterday regarding Bryghusgrunden. His criticism was very incompetent and it all ended up with that he didn't like high buildings. Well, the Bryghus-project isn't higher than the sourrounding buildings.
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Old April 24th, 2008, 12:17 PM   #1649
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TMG View Post
Well, what area in Copenhagen isn't historical sensitive!!! It is the perfect spot for such a project, and the socalled historical dimension is simply rubish, especially for an already artificial area of Copenhagen which isn't very old.

I also saw a spokesman for DN in TV2 Lorry yesterday regarding Bryghusgrunden. His criticism was very incompetent and it all ended up with that he didn't like high buildings. Well, the Bryghus-project isn't higher than the sourrounding buildings.
But the scary thing, TMG, is, that these people succeed in making these media appearances all alone and thereby setting the agenda. There are no PRO's in these "debates", only CON's. That's scary.
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Old April 24th, 2008, 12:57 PM   #1650
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fab 5 View Post
But the scary thing, TMG, is, that these people succeed in making these media appearances all alone and thereby setting the agenda. There are no PRO's in these "debates", only CON's. That's scary.
You are right. I guess that a part of the Danish peoplespirit prefers skectism before visions and development. Yet, spARK achived to brake through the mediawall, but we do know the following story too well. Hhhmmm, like Nixon's silent majority - but thats a completly different story.
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Old April 24th, 2008, 01:51 PM   #1651
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TMG View Post
I also saw a spokesman for DN in TV2 Lorry yesterday regarding Bryghusgrunden. His criticism was very incompetent and it all ended up with that he didn't like high buildings. Well, the Bryghus-project isn't higher than the sourrounding buildings.
Yeah, I saw it too. He was really a prime class idiot. Unbelievable
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Old April 24th, 2008, 02:10 PM   #1652
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Originally Posted by Pisling View Post
Yeah, I saw it too. He was really a prime class idiot. Unbelievable
Is it possible to view it online?
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Old April 24th, 2008, 02:15 PM   #1653
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It bothers me that the press is describing the new Marble Pier tower as a "giant tower" when it's only 35 m. taller than the City Hall tower for ****'s sake. They make it sound like it's a new Burj Dubai or something. I also noticed that the people behind it said that it might turn out to be a little shorter. They did not say it could be taller.... WTF is wrong with this country?
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Old April 24th, 2008, 02:30 PM   #1654
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DenverDane View Post
It bothers me that the press is describing the new Marble Pier tower as a "giant tower" when it's only 35 m. taller than the City Hall tower for ****'s sake. They make it sound like it's a new Burj Dubai or something. I also noticed that the people behind it said that it might turn out to be a little shorter. They did not say it could be taller.... WTF is wrong with this country?
I'am also puzzeled by the remark from Kramer Mikkelsen. It is a defensive remark and it signals a kind of retret. Why not propose 200 m. and than end up with 140 m. Of course it is wise not to be arrogant, but it shows a lack of willpower.
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Old April 24th, 2008, 03:12 PM   #1655
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fab 5 View Post
Is it possible to view it online?
Yes, you can watch the old fart here...
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Old April 24th, 2008, 03:28 PM   #1656
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What an idio*. Wonder what kinda project would fit in there according to him. I really enjoed seeing all the happy children using the area as playground

BTW. hawt chick. Maybe I should watch a bit more Lorry
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Old April 24th, 2008, 04:20 PM   #1657
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pisling View Post
Yes, you can watch the old fart here...
Thanks!
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Old April 24th, 2008, 07:26 PM   #1658
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I noticed in the article from Berlingske, that the marblepier-projekt were to be a mark for the future development in Nordhavnen. That sounds interesting. Also Kramer sounds like he owns that place and really wants to build highrises.
In regard to that idiot from TV2-Lorry, he's supposed to be an arkitect. Wonder what he ever build? Some house on Christiania? In my oppinion, TV2-Lorry did a good job in pointing out how DN are always against new buildings. Is it just me?
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Old April 24th, 2008, 08:01 PM   #1659
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Btw, don't you guys see, that we, right this moment, have an extraordinary oppotunity to make those NIMBY's look like complete idiots. That Maagaard-guy thinks, that the house is too big. Even too tall? Willumsgaard doesn't want a house at all and now that Josefson-guy is talking about Nordhavnen being a historical part of town. They're all worried about building in the inner city and now the near-by water is also a problem. If we could sample all of these arguments, and all new stupid examples, we could propably make them argue with each other, and if not, a least, make ordinary people aware of their psycotic cause. That would make future developers and politicians meet them with an overbaring smile, whenever they started their criticism. Job done!
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Old April 24th, 2008, 08:38 PM   #1660
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Good point! I like your way of thinking!!
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