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Old March 30th, 2008, 10:07 PM   #761
storms991
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Originally Posted by Basel_CH View Post
Thats your opinion about architecture, not more and for me a great silly joke!!
London has in my view with exceptions lousy unremarkable skysrapers, from the desing and also from the heights, the bridge tower is maybe for London relations not bad, also not from the height, but in comparison with other world towns, 300meters and the theatre around this shed is a little bit ridiculous, and almost not mentionable, incredible, how great is the exaggerated opinion of oneself by british people, they mean they rule the world.
Height isn't everything.
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Old March 30th, 2008, 10:44 PM   #762
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No. This isn't just 'some' building... It is going to be more expensive than the Freedom Tower, and the same price as the Burj Dubai, £2bn ($4bn). The price tag alone shows that this won't just be 'some 310m building'.

This is London's premiere skyscraper project, and the first supertall building in the UK. It has come up against alot of opposition from different people, and has had funding issues for a long time, which are thankfully now sorted out. It takes a long time for London to build skyscrapers, but when they do them, they do them right, just look at this, which is now full steam ahead, and Swiss Re in the past too.
The cost of a building not only includes materials, but also labor and for The Shard, demolition of an existing structure. This is why your {greater cost = greater quality} logic is flawed.

Currently London has 1 great skyscraper and yet you talk of London as if it were a pre-eminent skyscraper city. You should accept the fact that in terms of skyscrapers, London is nowhere near the top of the list.
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Old March 30th, 2008, 11:26 PM   #763
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The cost of a building not only includes materials, but also labor and for The Shard, demolition of an existing structure. This is why your {greater cost = greater quality} logic is flawed.

Currently London has 1 great skyscraper and yet you talk of London as if it were a pre-eminent skyscraper city. You should accept the fact that in terms of skyscrapers, London is nowhere near the top of the list.
1. Actually, from what is known the Shard will be of superb quality. The glass will apparently be like crystal, very fine cladding, possibly some of the best of any building. The building isn't a regular pyramid either, it has a number of sides, it really will be like a Shard. The design of this building has been refined over years, and it will show in the final product. The building, despite being quite alot shorter, will still be more expensive than Freedom Tower even with the demolition of the current building taken into account. Atleast I would think so, something tells me the demolition of Southwark Towers isn't going to cost $1bn.

2. No one thinks of London as a 'skyscraper city' now or in the near future. It may have about 30 skyscrapers in the coming years, compared to real skyscraper cities that isn't very much. But what we do think, however, is that London's 'big' proposals can easily match the rest of the world's best in terms of design and quality.
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Old March 31st, 2008, 12:07 AM   #764
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1. Actually, from what is known the Shard will be of superb quality. The glass will apparently be like crystal, very fine cladding, possibly some of the best of any building. The building isn't a regular pyramid either, it has a number of sides, it really will be like a Shard. The design of this building has been refined over years, and it will show in the final product. The building, despite being quite alot shorter, will still be more expensive than Freedom Tower even with the demolition of the current building taken into account. Atleast I would think so, something tells me the demolition of Southwark Towers isn't going to cost $1bn.

2. No one thinks of London as a 'skyscraper city' now or in the near future. It may have about 30 skyscrapers in the coming years, compared to real skyscraper cities that isn't very much. But what we do think, however, is that London's 'big' proposals can easily match the rest of the world's best in terms of design and quality.
Fair enough, I must be mis-interpreting what you were saying then. My main point was that higher cost doesn't necessarily mean better quality but I would agree that it is definitely indicative. London does have some very nice proposals and The Shard should be great. As far as its quality, I'll wait until I see the actual product before I pass judgement.

If it shines like a crystal, it should be beautiful. NYC's Bank of America Tower was inspired by the New York Crystal Palace, which interestingly was inspired by The Crystal Palace in London. The facade of Bank of America Tower is less than crystalesque and has instead turned out to be quite dull. The same architect that designed The Shard, Renzo Piano, also designed the New York Times Tower which has a very bland facade that looks nothing like the render.

All this considered, I hope for London's sake The Shard turns out better.
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Old March 31st, 2008, 12:31 AM   #765
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Fair enough, I must be mis-interpreting what you were saying then. My main point was that higher cost doesn't necessarily mean better quality but I would agree that it is definitely indicative. London does have some very nice proposals and The Shard should be great. As far as its quality, I'll wait until I see the actual product before I pass judgement.

If it shines like a crystal, it should be beautiful. NYC's Bank of America Tower was inspired by the New York Crystal Palace, which interestingly was inspired by The Crystal Palace in London. The facade of Bank of America Tower is less than crystalesque and has instead turned out to be quite dull. The same architect that designed The Shard, Renzo Piano, also designed the New York Times Tower which has a very bland facade that looks nothing like the render.

All this considered, I hope for London's sake The Shard turns out better.
No, you are right, it doesn't always mean better quality. But here, I really think it will. The cost, for a building that is 'only' 310m, is very high, and I do believe that will be reflected in the finished product.
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Old March 31st, 2008, 11:37 PM   #766
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Technology has moved on, so that now it is possible, just very expensive. As a result London has relatively few tall buildings, but what there is are of a very high standard as demanded by the costs to build them. The Shard will be London's first supertall, but others will slowly follow.
Lol, you better crawl back into your "raw house", as to vertical and horizontal resonance, London is mainly following suit, where precise scale with respect to light matters, which is in Paris of course
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Old April 1st, 2008, 12:58 PM   #767
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I look forward to seeing some of the proposals for tall towers in Paris coming to fruition. In terms of the over-all city planning and architecture I don't think anywhere comes even close! A design similar to The Shard would look stunning in La Defense! The one thing I would say about the recent London developments outside of Docklands is that they are all inovative in design.
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Old April 2nd, 2008, 02:54 AM   #768
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Originally Posted by Basel_CH View Post
Thats your opinion about architecture, not more and for me a great silly joke!!
London has in my view with exceptions lousy unremarkable skysrapers, from the desing and also from the heights, the bridge tower is maybe for London relations not bad, also not from the height, but in comparison with other world towns, 300meters and the theatre around this shed is a little bit ridiculous, and almost not mentionable, incredible, how great is the exaggerated opinion of oneself by british people, they mean they rule the world.
London will never be top of the Skyscraper list and I hope it stays that way. I do not want Fleet Street to become Park Avenue. London is full of a great mixture of buildings, which stand out. Not by being big and tall, but by there beauty and originality. The Shard, Gherkin, and Pinnacle are great additions but they are merely a small chapter in London’s Architectural History.

Off to the Pub now


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Old April 3rd, 2008, 01:53 PM   #769
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http://www.cnplus.co.uk/News/2008/04...eel_prize.html

Cleveland Bridge favourite for Shard of Glass steel prize

Published: 02 April 2008 10:18

Cleveland Bridge is being tipped to carry out the steel contract on the Shard of Glass in London as front runners for the key subcontract packages on the 310 m-high building begin to emerge.

Main contractor Mace is due to make a series of decisions on trade contracts by the middle of next month before it makes a summer presentation to developer Teighmore, which has told it not to bust a £300 million budget.

The steelwork deal would be the Darlington firm's most high-profile scheme since the £60 million Wembley Stadium contract, which it turned its back on when it walked off that job nearly four years ago.

The firm has priced the work along with a rival team featuring ZNS, the sister firm of Dutch company Hollandia - the contractor that ended up replacing Cleveland Bridge at Wembley - and Belgian contractor Victor Buyck.

A winner is expected to be named in May with the deal carrying a price tag of about £25 million for 11,000 tonnes of steel.

Steel will be used in the first 42 storeys of the project, which will house hotel and commercial space, with the next 30 floors residential and featuring a concrete frame, before steel is used again in the remaining floors.

Two firms, Byrne Bros and John Doyle, are pricing the concrete contract, also expected to come in at around £25 million, with Mace due to make an announcement on the winner after the steel contract has been sorted.

Demolition firm Keltbray finally began tearing down the main fabric of the existing building this week as part of its £7 million contract at the site, which is next door to London Bridge railway station. It has been on site for more than two months carrying out asbestos removal.

Mace is hoping piling work, which will be carried out by Stent, can begin by July with construction work finishing in 2011. The M&E deal is expected to be the last major package to be sorted out with the contract split into two. Phoenix Electrical is one firm looking at the deal.

Author: David Rogers. News Editor



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Old April 3rd, 2008, 02:00 PM   #770
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Steel will be used in the first 42 storeys of the project, which will house hotel and commercial space, with the next 30 floors residential and featuring a concrete frame, before steel is used again in the remaining floors.
Steel then a concrete frame then steel again. Is this true?
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Old April 3rd, 2008, 02:11 PM   #771
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Great to hear that things are finally moving on this project. Presume we should start to see the exhisting building coming down pretty rapidly.
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Old April 3rd, 2008, 03:40 PM   #772
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Presume we should start to see the exhisting building coming down pretty rapidly.
A few well placed sticks of TNT and it'll come down nice a fast! Might improve the surrounding area too!

Joking aside I might have to find an excuse to get down to our London office in New London Bridge House to see what's going on. We won't be there much longer.
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Old April 4th, 2008, 01:04 PM   #773
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http://www.building.co.uk/story.asp?...de=3110309&c=1

Bernard Ainsworth is hired to take on the Shard

2008 Issue 13

By Roxane McMeeken

Legendary project director leaves Atkins to lead development of 312m London Bridge tower

Bernard Ainsworth, the project director of the Millennium Dome, has been brought in to head the development of the 312m Shard tower for Sellar Property Group.

Ainsworth is leaving Atkins, where he is currently projects director, to project manage the Shard, and the surrounding London Bridge Quarter.

Ainsworth, 61, said he had intended to retire this year from his role at Atkins but changed his mind after he received Sellar’s offer. His work for Atkins included a secondment to doomed London Underground consortium Metronet.

He will start his job on 14 April. He said: “I am very excited. I’m a project management guy, I like big projects and the Shard is a great project.”

Ainsworth, who is in Building’s Hall of Fame, made his name on the Millennium Dome before becoming chief operating officer for the 2002 Commonwealth Games in Manchester, which was lauded for regenerating the east of the city.

Ainsworth’s title is project managing director with specific responsibility for the £2bn London Bridge Quarter, which includes the Shard development.

The 72-storey Shard has an estimated construction value of £350m. Building revealed last week that Mace, which is building it under a fixed-price contract, may revert to a construction management procurement route if a deal is not agreed by September.

Irvine Sellar, chairman of Sellar Property Group, said: “We’re absolutely delighted to have attracted one of the construction industry’s leading builders to lead what we believe to be Britain’s most prestigious regeneration project.

“He has a superlative track record of delivering large and complicated construction projects on time and within budget.”



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Old April 4th, 2008, 01:14 PM   #774
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Ministry of Truth anyone?

I must confess, the buildings itself is quite alright, but in those surrounding, kinda bleak'ish, it looks like something out of Nineteen Eighty-Four. Hope it'll turn out better in reality.
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Old April 5th, 2008, 09:02 PM   #775
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You're absolutely right, Kobtke, this is a grim architectural area, a total 70's disgrace. But, like a heart patient in need of a bypass, this regeneration will help.

South London has many gems, and several of them of them are at ground level, within 300m of the site. In fact one of the pleasures of life is the Thames Walk, which hits street level just here. Crossing the road is a terrible experience, but so worth it just to experience the genuine pubs, affordable restaurants, and Southwark Cathedral (where I was christened by a one-armed Australian toper, my parents at that time living in Tooley Street - don't ask, I survived the Christening - and 1950's Tooley Street).

I just hope I never end up in the nightmare Guy's hospital, which is the 450 ft monstrosity you see there. Better dead than that. But I live in Bangladesh, right now so hopefully it won't come to that.

There are many mistakes that London has made, and this area is one. London heals itself, but the mistakes are replaced by new ones, that is the beauty and frustration of London!! But at ground level, there are few places more interesting.

I think the Shard will work out just fine. In 2112, it will still stand, and someone will say this is an Olympic nightmare, but in my lifetime, it will do nicely.

But I have history there, so I have a serious soft spot!!!
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Old April 6th, 2008, 12:46 PM   #776
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In 2112, it will still stand, and someone will say this is an Olympic nightmare, but in my lifetime, it will do nicely.
Really? Will The Shard be postponed/delayed that much??
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Old April 8th, 2008, 02:05 AM   #777
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Old April 21st, 2008, 11:16 PM   #778
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This is definitely one of the most anticipated towers. Will look great in the skyline.
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Old April 22nd, 2008, 04:33 AM   #779
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A fine skyscraper, indeed!

I love the design of this building. It's very modern. It's sleek. It soars!! A very refined crystal-like shape it manages to overcome the problem with so many newer towers ... it is not banal! A worthy trophy for the great and glorious city of London. Nine tenths of the structures in Dubai or the mideast region don't even come close to the class and elegence of this structure!

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Old April 23rd, 2008, 10:08 PM   #780
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From almazUK on flickr:

image hosted on flickr
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