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Old April 4th, 2011, 11:58 AM   #20941
charles54
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has it crossed the 7wtc yet?
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Old April 4th, 2011, 12:53 PM   #20942
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this bird topic is taking over the entire thread and theres only gonna be 1 winner hhmmmm . . . . i like birds i also like skscapers but which is better ? theres only one way to find out! . . . FIGHT!! !! lol
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Old April 4th, 2011, 02:13 PM   #20943
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It's a shame - all those poor pigeons..
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Old April 4th, 2011, 02:31 PM   #20944
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Now a question remains in my head. Is it only because of windows or do buildings kill birds in general. If that's the case, how many birds get killed by steep mountains and high rocks?
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Old April 4th, 2011, 03:29 PM   #20945
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nice, very nice...

but am I the only one, who feels that this tower is very slim?
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Old April 4th, 2011, 03:59 PM   #20946
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prince Valium View Post
nice, very nice...

but am I the only one, who feels that this tower is very slim?

it is deceiving. it is really quite large IRL
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Old April 4th, 2011, 04:03 PM   #20947
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agree, and this is what this building makes special...the geometry is awsome..
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Old April 4th, 2011, 05:24 PM   #20948
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Traynor View Post
UGH!

You missed the point of the Titanic reference. Not that man shouldn't build stronger ships, but not to have the gall to think they they are better than nature. That is the lesson learned from that disaster.
No, the lesson learned regards technology: we see what went wrong, and we engineer it so that does not happen again. The whole "learning that man isn't better than nature" is typical hippies mentality that WAS "in" during the 80's, that we engineers (no all of course) are never get tiered of pointing out. Talk about outdated.

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Dark Glass is ugly? Ludwig Mies van der Rohe is rolling in his grave.
No, basic logic is rolling in it's grave. By taking something OUT of context you make it useless. The statement was obviously in the context of the wtc site. The Trump tower looks beautiful with dark glass. Personally, 1wtc would look like a tombstone.

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And less death is always better, regardless of the cost.
Regardless of costs? Ok, then no airplanes that kill birds with their motors, but also no boats that disorient and kill fish with their propellers and sonars. And no cars because they run over all sorts of animals, insects splattered on the windshield and no polluting in general because that kills birds and all kind of mammals (look at the statistics of human deaths caused by pollution).

Your reasoning is insulting to mankind as a homosapiens, congratulations. I will avoid answering your posts to not go even more off-topic, but feel free to answer via private message, so we don't continue with this useless discussion wasting time and ruining this thread at the same time.
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Old April 4th, 2011, 05:27 PM   #20949
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A recent survey has estimated that 4.35 million birds will crash into the 1WTC after it's completion. 2.674 million birds would crashed into it had the glass been glazed with magical bird repellent during the construction process.

Two-thirds of you think this survey was inaccurate, where as the other two-thirds think it is accurate.
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Old April 4th, 2011, 05:30 PM   #20950
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Quote:
Originally Posted by romanamerican View Post
Ok, then no airplanes that kill birds with their motors, but also no boats that disorient and kill fish with their propellers and sonars.
Every time a bird hits a plane, in any way, they either have to land or its the engine that's been hit which can result in a terrible accident. Considering I can only think of possibly..10 occasions of such off the top of my head, I think planes have done their respectable jobs. As have boats. Buildings will forever be the main bird killer after your neighbourhood cat
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Old April 4th, 2011, 05:44 PM   #20951
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Traynor and STR. This is how we sort shit out in Australia. You should give it a go if you two meet ever meet
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KakZk...eature=related

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If this render had 3 and 4 in it, would be on my background. Nice work
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Old April 4th, 2011, 05:55 PM   #20952
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MattToronto View Post
Every time a bird hits a plane, in any way, they either have to land or its the engine that's been hit which can result in a terrible accident. Considering I can only think of possibly..10 occasions of such off the top of my head, I think planes have done their respectable jobs. As have boats. Buildings will forever be the main bird killer after your neighbourhood cat
Again, no. Only in the US, therefore using the FAA database (wildlife strike database, available on their website), between 2004 and 2008 there were an average of 20 bird strikes EACH DAY. That makes it 7300 each year. Hardly a rare event.

Again though, this is going way OT, so let's please not continue, especially if we do not check the data that is available, and make statements that are false.

Correction: the number 7300 refers to "events" not number of birds killed; the number of birds is obviously way over that. But even 1 death, according to his reasoning, would fall into "less death" that can be avoided, and therefore "worth the cost". Not trying to be rude, just showing how non realistic that idea is.

Last edited by romanamerican; April 4th, 2011 at 10:20 PM.
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Old April 4th, 2011, 06:09 PM   #20953
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Does the top of WTC2 bug anyone else? I mean I love the concept and the finished product will be awesome, but I feel like the top should be a perfect rhombus--instead of the jagged one that is being constructed.
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Old April 4th, 2011, 09:06 PM   #20954
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Traynor View Post
UGH!

You missed the point of the Titanic reference. Not that man shouldn't build stronger ships, but not to have the gall to think they they are better than nature. That is the lesson learned from that disaster.

Dark Glass is ugly? Ludwig Mies van der Rohe is rolling in his grave.

And less death is always better, regardless of the cost.

Finally, the same cannot be said for ALL blue mirrored skyscrapers. Towers 1 and 4 have no visible window mullions, as most others do. This was done to achieve a specific look. That decision further exacerbates the bird-death problem and is the F-You attitude towards nature that I find appalling.
Don't let these obvious bullies beat you up. They have their opinions and you have the right to have yours despite what they say.
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Old April 4th, 2011, 10:48 PM   #20955
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A view from the top

Image via: Discovery Channels: Behind the Fence

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Old April 4th, 2011, 11:00 PM   #20956
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As usual... the detractors missed the point entirely.

No one expects NO Bird Deaths, that is unrealistic in an urban setting. The choice of this glazing will cause MORE deaths than the old towers did. The old ones caused thousands, the new ones, several times the amount on a yearly basis.

That is a step BACKWARD, in this age of more ecological thinking. However it is not surprising that most Americans could care less about their impact on the environment.

We are not taking about pest species such as pigeons. You must get that idea out of your head. They are local and deal with the towers all the time. We are talking about endangered, migrating song birds.

Why do they matter? Because without them seeds are not spread in their natural habitat, limiting new growth of diverse fauna, causing depleted natural habitats. Further, these birds are heavily responsible for keeping various insects in control. Insects that compete with Bees. Without the birds, the insects multiply and diminish natural Bee populations. Bees are responsible for pollinating %65 percent of edible crops. Without Bees, our food supply is in peril.

Oh and by the way... THERE IS SUCH A THING AS "MAGIC BIRD-REPELLANT GLASS"

This UV enhanced glass is only one of several solutions.

http://www.led-emotionalize.com/idea...dex/ideaId/391

Quote:
Description
Millions of wild birds are killed each year flying into windows. With the anti-bird strike window system you can help.

The window casing consists of a UV light source at the edge of the glass pane which illuminates the glass with an imperceptible to human glow of UV light. Birds have vision that is up to 12 times better than that of humans.

Where humans have a trichromatic retina, birds have a quad chromatic retina. with over 120,000 cells per sq. mm compared to a humans 10,000 cells per sq. mm. and over twice the number of low light rods, birds eyes are much better than ours at seeing UV light.

Where we would see just a pane of glass birds see a bright purple-blue glowing light. This would allow them to avoid hitting glass on high rises, homes and businesses. In the case of mirrored glass, the mirror could be put on the inside of the double panes, which allows for the UV light to shine and where it is protected from the elements.

There are other products out there which use the same principles to deter window strikes, but none which are as versatile or robust.

These lights can be turned on and off so they only use power during the times of the day which birds are likely to strike. They could also have a thin semi-transparent solar panel and battery assembly connected so that each window is self sufficient.

With a few tweaks and additions, the UV lights could be supplemented with coloured LED\'s and control circuits for use in other applications within the same window sash, as outlined in another entry in the competition.

So save birds and feel good... but not as good as the bird.
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Old April 4th, 2011, 11:26 PM   #20957
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^That's not magical. That's installing a light in each and every window frame, eating power constantly and costing extra to install. That's also a completely unproven concept, which is why it's on some random website rather than an established, reputable manufacturer like Dow Corning. It probably won't work all that well, since there has yet to be proof from anywhere else that cladding material comes even close to mitigating the overwhelming fact that these bird are running into the buildings simply because the buildings exist, and the birds for whatever reason are unable to navigate around them.

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Originally Posted by Mplsuptown View Post
Don't let these obvious bullies beat you up. They have their opinions and you have the right to have yours despite what they say.
Nobody ever said he, or anyone else doesn't have the right to free speech. That's completely irrelevant to the topic. The general consensus is that he and others are not grasping the reality of the situation properly. He values birds. Fine. Got it. However, there is no clear solution to his problem. Certainly not a cost effective one. His assertion that the low-iron reflective glass will cause disproportionate harm compared to some other type of glazing is unfounded. These are not the first buildings to use this glass. It hasn't been a problem elsewhere, therefore it is highly unlikely to be a problem here.
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Last edited by STR; April 4th, 2011 at 11:36 PM.
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Old April 5th, 2011, 12:23 AM   #20958
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I bet those birds are terrorists!
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Old April 5th, 2011, 01:07 AM   #20959
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April 3rd, SkyscrapersOfNewYork, Skyscraperpage..









































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Old April 5th, 2011, 02:05 AM   #20960
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beautiful renders STR, as always!
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