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Old May 9th, 2011, 06:08 PM   #21761
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davidsam52 View Post
No, that's not correct. Look again. I believe this is the new Fitterman Hall. 4 WTC is not in this photo.
He is referring to this photo...
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Old May 9th, 2011, 06:26 PM   #21762
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IanG View Post
Not really the answer I was looking for (but thank you!)...

I can't find any "official" documentation about this matter.
Perhaps, like most humans, you are looking for a greater hidden meaning, where none may exist.

It is human nature to assign meaning in random occurrences or events to help explain or understand our existence. We earmark secret messages in the things we don't clearly understand, in order to make sense of our surroundings. Some find answers in religion, others in the occult and still others from within themselves.

In the case of the design of this building, while I cannot be 100 percent sure, the designer would be influenced by the history that stood before it, his own personal preferences and the logistics of the site and its needs.

If there is hidden meaning cloaked in the shapes, like the Free Mason symbols hidden in the Great Seal of the United States, that is for you to decide for yourself.

In my opinion when someone is so desperate to find meaning in an object, they are actually experiencing transference and what they are actually seeking is meaning in their own lives. We are all on a journey to search for a greater power in the world around us.

Do some soul searching and perhaps you will find the hidden meanings that you seek.
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Old May 9th, 2011, 06:40 PM   #21763
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Originally Posted by 600West218 View Post
I have a different take on why WTC 1 is designed this way.

I think the goal was to make it as tall as the old WTC for symbolic reasons but to make it much smaller area wise.

The reason to make it much smaller in terms of office space is they probably thought most people would not want to be tenants in this building. What happened to the old WTC towers would simply scare people away as they would think the new tower that sort of replaces them would be a prime target for future attacks, and that even if it were safe from attacks just the history would be so bad as to scare people away.

Hence they made the office floors much smaller which combined with a large core for safety reasons leaves a much smaller amount of usable office space and it is easier to fill up a lesser amount of office space.
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Originally Posted by Traynor View Post
Perhaps, like most humans, you are looking for a greater hidden meaning, where none may exist.

It is human nature to assign meaning in random occurrences or events to help explain or understand our existence. We earmark secret messages in the things we don't clearly understand, in order to make sense of our surroundings. Some find answers in religion, others in the occult and still others from within themselves.

In the case of the design of this building, while I cannot be 100 percent sure, the designer would be influenced by the history that stood before it, his own personal preferences and the logistics of the site and its needs.

If there is hidden meaning cloaked in the shapes, like the Free Mason symbols hidden in the Great Seal of the United States, that is for you to decide for yourself.

In my opinion when someone is so desperate to find meaning in an object, they are actually experiencing transference and what they are actually seeking is meaning in their own lives. We are all on a journey to search for a greater power in the world around us.

Do some soul searching and perhaps you will find the hidden meanings that you seek.
Good and smart posts guys..The symbolism and meaning of new WTC complex is something very interesting if you ask me..
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Old May 9th, 2011, 06:44 PM   #21764
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The metaphysics rant of the previous post aside, when buildings are designed they are most definitely designed a certain way for very precise reasons - the lot size, the nature of the surroundings, zoning laws, potential tenants, aesthetics, etc, etc.

Human beings designed this building and they certainly had their reasons for designing it as they did, irrespective of whether or not they ever let us know those reasons.

Again, I am not going back to old newspaper articles now but having lived in NYC through all this I can tell you that during the past ten years, and certainly during the early period when designs were first considered, most New Yorkers were very afraid of additional attacks and particularly additional attacks against any new WTC buildings. Keep in mind, the WTC wasn't attacked once, it was attacked twice.

I most definitely remember lots of discussions around 2004 and 2005 on how difficult they thought it would be to find tenants to occupy this building. Hence I strongly suspect that is why they chose this design which minimized the actual floor space.

Just to give an example, the old Verizon building across the street is full of New York State offices. They moved them there from 5 Penn Plaza to try to support the WTC area because private tenants didn't even want to move in across the street from the WTC.

Also, remember that they delayed this project while the NYPD made them build a 200 foot tall concrete bunker as its base out of concern of possible truck bombs.

Therefore, while I am not privy to inside information on I believe security concerns and fears of not being able to find tenants drove much of this design.

Also recall that competing designs often had things like steel structures that would give lots of height but very little usable office space which would be concentrated lower down again showing how security and fear really drove this.
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Old May 9th, 2011, 07:23 PM   #21765
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I think both interpretations are equally valid. 1 WTC has an identical profile to that of the original North Tower: same 1, 368 foot roof height, same floor area at widest point, similar spire). The main difference is that 1 WTC has 8 sides instead of the North Tower's 4, and one could interpret it as combining the total 8 sides of the Twin Towers into one tower. At the same time, the area of the floors in 1 WTC decreases from the area of the original tower at the 20th floor to only half of that at the roof. This means that the total "volume" of 1 WTC is over 25% less than that of the North Tower.
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Old May 9th, 2011, 07:29 PM   #21766
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That boring technical explanation and RANT of the pre-previous post aside...

(Some people obviously have no soul.)

I believe the forumer wanted to find the reason for the shape, not the reason why it was built with small floor plans or bunker bottoms or 65 feet from the street... More of why it has chamfered corners and the subtle taper effect. The aesthetics not the logistics.

That is in the mind of the designer and as I mentioned, he would have been influenced by his own personal experience and his interpretation of the original towers, coupled with his interpretation of memorializing them.

Personally I see the shape, with the large flame-like mast, as a single tapered candle, burning in memory of all that was lost. Whether that was the architect's intent, you would have to ask him.

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Last edited by Traynor; May 9th, 2011 at 07:36 PM.
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Old May 9th, 2011, 07:56 PM   #21767
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And if you had actually read my post instead of glazing over when it came to the touchy/feely part, you would have noticed that I too had taken the logistics into account when I commented:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Traynor View Post
...In the case of the design of this building, while I cannot be 100 percent sure, the designer would be influenced by the history that stood before it, his own personal preferences and the logistics of the site and its needs...
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Old May 9th, 2011, 07:56 PM   #21768
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"More of why it has chamfered corners and the subtle taper effect."

Once you decide to reduce the size of upper floors you only have a limited number of options. To know why they chose this one we'd probably have to find an interview with the architect. It might be on a previous iteration of this thread.

Part of it is they probably wanted some clean, unbroken vertical lines going from near the bottom to the top to be more like the original WTC was, rather than having set backs like the Sears building in Chicago does or even 4 WTC has.

Again, just a guess. We have to find statements by the architects to truly answer this question.
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Old May 9th, 2011, 08:39 PM   #21769
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Libeskind isn't commonly known for his in-depth work in logistics, given his previous works. However for this project I believe logistics undoubtedly would trump aesthetics, given the location and history.
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Old May 9th, 2011, 08:55 PM   #21770
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But the best part is that everyone can see it in their own way..Interpretate it how they feel and like..That's why I think it's one of the best designs..So simple but so interesting..
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Old May 9th, 2011, 08:58 PM   #21771
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I did not mean aesthetics so much as symbolism. Its undeniable that 1 WTC bears a striking resemblance to the North Tower, and its 8-sided facade could easily be interpreted as a merging of the two fallen towers into a single, structurally sounder tower. As for aesthetics, 1 WTC retains much of the minimalistic simplicity and elegance of the Twin Towers.

Of course every building is built with logistics in mind, and this tower is clearly no exception. Yet the same tapering effect could have been achieved by a variety of different other ways. My question was why did Childs chose this particular one, what's the symbolic significance of it? Moving the tower 65 feet from West Street had nothing to do with tapering (the Libeskind-Child design already entailed a completely different kind of tapering). This is a natural question to ask for a tower that is literally supposed to embody Freedom and is 1,776 feet tall-its simply loaded with symbolism.

As I said in my original post, I believe that the comments made by the other forumers are valid interpretations, not proven facts.

As for the "rant", there is nothing factually inaccurate in it; they are facts that substantiate the symbolic and logistic interpretations of 1 WTCs design.
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Old May 9th, 2011, 09:01 PM   #21772
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MattToronto:
Quote:
Libeskind isn't commonly known for his in-depth work in logistics, given his previous works. However for this project I believe logistics undoubtedly would trump aesthetics, given the location and history.
1 WTC is designed by David Childs, not Daniel Libeskind
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Old May 9th, 2011, 09:05 PM   #21773
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toren1776 View Post
MattToronto:


1 WTC is designed by David Childs, not Daniel Libeskind
What the **** ??? surely is designed by Libeskind.
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Old May 9th, 2011, 09:28 PM   #21774
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David Childs from SOM..Not Libeskind..
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Old May 9th, 2011, 09:54 PM   #21775
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There's nothing left of the Libeskind WTC1 design or the Childs/Libeskind collaboration but the final height. The entire site follows Libeskind's concept, but he had nothing to do with individual building design. His memorial design did survive relatively intact.
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Old May 9th, 2011, 10:01 PM   #21776
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May 3rd, WTC.com



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Old May 9th, 2011, 10:07 PM   #21777
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OMG what a great photo!!!
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Old May 9th, 2011, 10:11 PM   #21778
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Thank you all very much for the comments. Because of them, I don't really think it's supposed to look like an obelisk.

It's just an unsettling irritation. I mean, I feel that the site deserves what is best, and it would feel so weird having an obelisk there, considering what they stand for (no pun intended).

I also find it odd how the architect verbally attacked the Twins, but made the Freedom Tower (I know that name was ditched long ago, but I hate calling it 1 WTC; it is not the North Tower) roughly the same size as the North Tower.

Because of your insight, I presume that the building tapers to create a spiraling effect, descending to the memorial below?

Quote:
Because only the corners taper, not the sides, the tower will appear from some directions to be almost perfectly rectangular, proportioned like one of the lost twins and just as tall. But from oblique angles, that evocative shape will give way to a gentle slope.

NEVER hesitant - in fact, quite learned - about citing historical antecedents for his own work, Mr. Childs mentioned Cleopatra's Needle, the Washington Monument and Nelson's Column in Trafalgar Square as he described the new Freedom Tower.
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Old May 9th, 2011, 11:22 PM   #21779
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DinoVabec View Post
May 3rd, WTC.com

..
Amazing view.
taken from WTC7?
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Old May 9th, 2011, 11:36 PM   #21780
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Amazing view.
taken from WTC7?
Yup..I bet workers in 7WTC have huge private photo collections of construction..
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