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Old July 26th, 2011, 12:02 AM   #24501
Sammo Haya
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It seems really cheap to include a 400 foot spire to make a building 1776 feet high. I still consider it to be about 1400 feet high.
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Old July 26th, 2011, 12:07 AM   #24502
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I 1000% agree with you. Spires are cheating. It should have been 1776ft roof height. For me it'll always be a 1368ft building, not a 1776ft building.
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Old July 26th, 2011, 12:14 AM   #24503
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I agree that making a building taller with a spire is kinda cheap. However i do like how the spire compliments 1 WTC. The ring of circles at the base of the spire go well with the straight triangular shapes of the building. The spire then goes back to the triangular theme as it rises to tie it all together. It doesn't really bother me that the spire makes it 1776" tall because the spire feels like its actually part of the building. i guess we'll have to wait and see how it looks when it is all done.
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Old July 26th, 2011, 12:25 AM   #24504
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In an ideal world

The roof would be 1776 ft high and the spire would be 2001 ft high.
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Old July 26th, 2011, 12:51 AM   #24505
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanto View Post
It is. Here you have a diagram detailing which buildings have been beaten by 1WTC and which have not. With 276m 1WTC is currently the 5th tallest in NY:

[IMG]http://i53.************/deycue.jpg[/IMG]

Btw, by 9/11/2011 it'll be 2nd since it needs only 13m to beat BoA
Look. I know what I said. And I know you hate spires okay? But the official height of BoA is 1200. The official height of Chrysler is 1047.

Right now, the tallest buildings in NYC are Empire State Building (1250), Bank of America (1200), Chrysler (1047), NY Times (1047), American International (952), and THEN 1WTC (937). Like someone else said, if you're going to do the checklist, at least do it right.

What you're doing is pressing your opinion on us. I'm sure all of us would want this thing 1776 to the roof. It's not. Get over it. What you're doing is giving people who are less informed the wrong idea.

You say 1WTC right now is 13 meters shorter then Bank of America. So to someone who just came here for the first time and doesn't know any better, you're going to tell them that 1WTC is 1158 feet tall?

Get over yourself.
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Old July 26th, 2011, 01:03 AM   #24506
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You can attack me as much as you want but that won't change the facts.

Fact no. 1 - Height measurement to the roof isn't my idea, so I'm not "pressing my opinion on you". This measurement method was used by the CTBUH until November 2009.

Fact no. 2 - I am not misleading anybody. Somebody unexperienced my just as well think that you are misleading him/her because if somebody is unexperienced, it doesn't automaticaly mean he counts spires. When I was unexperienced I always thought that roof height is the actual official height.

Fact no. 3 - In my diagram it is clearly visible that it's a roof height diagram because the Citigroup Center is ranked above 40 Wall Street.

Fact no. 4 - I don't hate spires, I just hate them being counted to a building's height.

There, was I clear enough for you
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Old July 26th, 2011, 01:35 AM   #24507
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Truth be told, I thought the diagram was on point till, Azn_man pointed something out, to me. Now I'm looking at it and I see it's all wrong. Citigroup isn't taller than, 40 Wall street and Where the hell is American International building at?

It's one thing to do this to NYTT. But the older buildings.

You can change the rules but you can't change history.
Even if there was a rule put in place. That say only the roof of a building, counts as the buildings true height. It wouldn't effect any building built, before the rule was put in place. It's called the Grandfather clause.
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Last edited by kingsc; July 26th, 2011 at 01:42 AM.
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Old July 26th, 2011, 01:36 AM   #24508
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanto View Post
Fact no. 1 - Height measurement to the roof isn't my idea, so I'm not "pressing my opinion on you". This measurement method was used by the CTBUH until November 2009.
The CTBUH has always used the architectural height for the official height rankings, which has always included spires (i.e. additions with no other use then being part of the architecture). This has also a practical reason, as it is not always possible to determine the height of the roof, such as Chrysler Building and Burj Khalifa.

I however quite strongly agree that "sticks on a roof" should not be considered. Trump Chicago has bragging rights only because that skinny pole is part of the equation. Building who have a taller mass literally can look down on Trump, but are considered to be lower buildings. I'll bring it up during the next meeting of the height committee of the CTBUH, which is this October, bus as changing the spire ruling would also change a lot of tall building history I strongly doubt there will be any rulings on that.
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Old July 26th, 2011, 02:44 AM   #24509
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanto View Post
You can attack me as much as you want but that won't change the facts.

Fact no. 1 - Height measurement to the roof isn't my idea, so I'm not "pressing my opinion on you". This measurement method was used by the CTBUH until November 2009.

Fact no. 2 - I am not misleading anybody. Somebody unexperienced my just as well think that you are misleading him/her because if somebody is unexperienced, it doesn't automaticaly mean he counts spires. When I was unexperienced I always thought that roof height is the actual official height.

Fact no. 3 - In my diagram it is clearly visible that it's a roof height diagram because the Citigroup Center is ranked above 40 Wall Street.

Fact no. 4 - I don't hate spires, I just hate them being counted to a building's height.

There, was I clear enough for you
1. There's a reason the roof category was removed when it was. Where is Shanghai Tower's roof? Where is Petronas Tower's roofs? Abraj Al Bait's? Burj Khalifa's? Hell, even Empire State Building's roof, since no one can figure out what the hell to call that gray thing under the antennas

Roofs these days are increasingly hard to find. That's why it was removed as a category.

2. When you first get interested in skyscrapers, you don't know about the Spires vs Roof debate of the late 90's until you read up about it. Then you figure out that spires are counted towards height, which sometimes makes buildings with roofs much higher lose out.

They may or may not turn against spires afterward, but at least they know why Sears is shorter then Petronas.

3. K

4. K
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Old July 26th, 2011, 03:07 AM   #24510
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This work is moving very fast, has an impressive height from now.

Very good tower is beautiful
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Old July 26th, 2011, 03:16 AM   #24511
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people please leave spires alone all the top three tallest buildings in the world has them .
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Old July 26th, 2011, 03:38 AM   #24512
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Feel like this thread could use a couple of photos.



image hosted on flickr

Untitled by Benjamin Rosamond, on Flickr
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Old July 26th, 2011, 04:08 AM   #24513
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great pics of 1 wtc and you could also see some great progress begin done on the Barclays Center.
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Old July 26th, 2011, 05:09 AM   #24514
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nice pics

Last edited by abuabu; July 26th, 2011 at 05:49 AM. Reason: off topic
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Old July 26th, 2011, 06:21 AM   #24515
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Kanto, we appreciate your effort in trying to provide a diagram for all of us, but you are wasting your time. You are misinforming everyone. As king asked, where is AIB?

Also, to call spires "cheating" seems out of line to me. Of course the architects are aware and somewhat concerned of the height of a building, but the main objective is to make it look as good as it can. Even though I don't like the look of the spire on 1 WTC, I would rather have it than nothing at all. This building would look like garbage if it stopped at the roof.
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Old July 26th, 2011, 06:42 AM   #24516
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The only reason 1 WTC has a spire is to capture the attention of the city. Like a modern esb, 1wtc uses it to claim itself an iconic building, and more or less the final piece to complete the skyline. I wouldn't worry about there being an "official height". It would be easier to forget what gets called official, and just say it's pinnacle is this high, and it's roof height is that high.
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Old July 26th, 2011, 07:17 AM   #24517
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Remember a few months before 9/11. The Sear Tower added a antenna, so it would surpass the North Tower as the tallest over all building in the USA. Maybe the spire is payback, that's the only thing that make sense to me lol.
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Old July 26th, 2011, 08:32 AM   #24518
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Well because ESB more or less went up for the sake of going up to have WTB. With the WTC, everything needs to be perfect. They've put in loads of extra safety features which take a while to implement such as the concrete base and all that.
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Old July 26th, 2011, 10:07 AM   #24519
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by World Trade Center

image hosted on flickr

http://www.flickr.com/photos/6550571...n/photostream/

image hosted on flickr

http://www.flickr.com/photos/6550571...n/photostream/
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Old July 26th, 2011, 10:43 AM   #24520
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The height difference on the last picture seems odd. Shouldn't the WTC be taller?
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