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Old April 15th, 2012, 12:55 AM   #31321
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I don't think that most people realize how close we were to getting a bunch of 50-story towers to replace the WTC or nothing at all. Sure, the new redesigns might be out of fear or because some people just want to make more money, but at very least we are totally replacing what was destroyed, and more. Also, from what I've seen, it would be unwise to think that what we see now is final. There have been so many changes since day one that I'd be shocked if they ever decided on what to finally build. I'm sure if people don't like the new base, they can totally contact the PA and complain.
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Old April 15th, 2012, 01:03 AM   #31322
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patrick989 View Post
Imagine what it's gonna be like to even go shopping in the new underground mall? They'll probably have snipers at every corner. They'll be like "hey, why are you buying that kitchen knife set????? BANG!"
They'll not be carrying snipers but 9mm service pistols. The NYPD has already a plan once the whole complex is operating.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kingsc View Post
Look at the gaps between the pylons on the streets in the first design, compared to the new one.
Those "pylons" are called bollards and SOM leaved that space open for the ADA ramps, in case a vehicle could get to the plaza through the ramps they also added some more bollards protecting the entrance. The revised version doesn't need those extra bollards protecting the entrance, so they were removed, not sure though why the ADA ramps were removed... I'm hoping whoever modified the rendering deleted accidently the fountain and filled the empty space at the corner sidewalk with more bollards.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Keepon View Post
Also, why did they had to remove that fountain for? I can't imagine what safety hazard it may have posed.
I'm quite sure the fountain is staying, the structure is already in place and it will serve also as a skylight for the Observation Deck Lobby just below, they better f*cking leavethat fountain as it is.

Last edited by Otie; April 15th, 2012 at 01:31 AM.
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Old April 15th, 2012, 01:29 AM   #31323
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There is no way the terrorists would attack the wtc a third time. I wonder if the security managers realize that as soon as they finish spending billions of dollars for security measures in the wtc, the terrorists would just attack some other place? (if ever?)
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Old April 15th, 2012, 02:48 AM   #31324
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Yeah Otie I'm not the one who called them pylons.
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Old April 15th, 2012, 05:50 AM   #31325
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CF221 View Post
W T F !!!
I did not know that.................
I have never been so disappointed with a construction project in my life.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mindgoessnap View Post
Honestly, I really don't mind that the corners are being squared off. In fact, I kind of prefer the tower with a square base, as it evokes the square base of the original towers. It will be interesting to see how construction progresses.
I preferred the original design for the base. My initial reaction to this post with the render was "YIKES!"

The second design is not so bad, though. I can see modifications have to made. Now if they can only add another 300 or 400 feet to the height!
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Old April 15th, 2012, 06:12 AM   #31326
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From above

I had a very nice flyover today on the way to Laguardia. And fortunately I was sitting on the lucky side of the plane.



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Old April 15th, 2012, 06:27 AM   #31327
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Otie View Post
They'll not be carrying snipers but 9mm service pistols. The NYPD has already a plan once the whole complex is operating.



Those "pylons" are called bollards and SOM leaved that space open for the ADA ramps, in case a vehicle could get to the plaza through the ramps they also added some more bollards protecting the entrance. The revised version doesn't need those extra bollards protecting the entrance, so they were removed, not sure though why the ADA ramps were removed... I'm hoping whoever modified the rendering deleted accidently the fountain and filled the empty space at the corner sidewalk with more bollards.





I'm quite sure the fountain is staying, the structure is already in place and it will serve also as a skylight for the Observation Deck Lobby just below, they better f*cking leavethat fountain as it is.

If I remember way back from 2009 I think, they poured the fountain concrete then covered it up on the West side of 1WTC. I also remember they did this for the East side as well in 2010 (years may be off).
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Old April 15th, 2012, 06:29 AM   #31328
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gesh01 View Post
I had a very nice flyover today on the way to Laguardia. And fortunately I was sitting on the lucky side of the plane.



Great zoom you've got there! You can clearly notice the perspective distortion due to the angle of view !
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Old April 15th, 2012, 06:43 AM   #31329
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It's all very exciting to watch her grow!
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Old April 15th, 2012, 06:50 AM   #31330
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fimiak View Post
If I remember way back from 2009 I think, they poured the fountain concrete then covered it up on the West side of 1WTC. I also remember they did this for the East side as well in 2010 (years may be off).
Don't remember any concrete pouring, just the covering of the structure with temporary beams that later supported the 18000. Not sure what happened there after the 18000 moved to the Hub..

Skylight structure


Temporary beams
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Old April 15th, 2012, 08:22 AM   #31331
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I'm new to these forums and have only been keeping up with the last few pages of this thread because I'm interested in what's going on there.

I have a question that I'm sure has been asked before, but I would rather ask it here. If it's been discussed exhaustively in other threads on this forum could you direct me to those threads?

Anyway, the question is... why did they not rebuild the twin towers? Even if it had been with this newer design, it would've made a hell of a lot more sense considering the whole "we'll show them how we bounce back" mantra than the design they've gone with. I've seen the proposed design by Kenneth Gardner and to me it was perfect as it re-established the towers and set up a memorial to those who died and to the former towers.

I just don't understand what they're doing there. I'm not trying to crap on these new buildings... they're nice looking buildings in their own right... but to not rebuild the twins reeks of cowardice, IMO.
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Old April 15th, 2012, 08:32 AM   #31332
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gesh01 View Post
I had a very nice flyover today on the way to Laguardia. And fortunately I was sitting on the lucky side of the plane.



what amazing pictures and amazing luck!

incidentally look at the great progress on 4wtc! i think 4wtc will top out before 1wtc at this rate.
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Old April 15th, 2012, 08:43 AM   #31333
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyHighSevenNine View Post
Anyway, the question is... why did they not rebuild the twin towers?
I'm just blown away by the originality of this question.
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Old April 15th, 2012, 08:45 AM   #31334
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyHighSevenNine View Post
I'm new to these forums and have only been keeping up with the last few pages of this thread because I'm interested in what's going on there.

I have a question that I'm sure has been asked before, but I would rather ask it here. If it's been discussed exhaustively in other threads on this forum could you direct me to those threads?

Anyway, the question is... why did they not rebuild the twin towers? Even if it had been with this newer design, it would've made a hell of a lot more sense considering the whole "we'll show them how we bounce back" mantra than the design they've gone with. I've seen the proposed design by Kenneth Gardner and to me it was perfect as it re-established the towers and set up a memorial to those who died and to the former towers.

I just don't understand what they're doing there. I'm not trying to crap on these new buildings... they're nice looking buildings in their own right... but to not rebuild the twins reeks of cowardice, IMO.
Because the old buildings had a design that didn't fit with the the necessities of modern skyscrapers. For instance, the old buildings couldn't be nearly as eco-friendly as these ones, primarily because one of the main aspects of modern eco-friendly buildings is floor-to-ceiling windows that are unobstructed, the old buildings basically let in about half the amount of natural light this building does. Also, the old designs had controversy and bad memories tied to them, a lot of people don't like that, not to mention, a lot of potential tenants wouldn't like that. Just think, if "freedom tower" was too attached to 9/11 to attract tenants, how would rebuilding the twin towers not be exactly the same, but on a much larger level?

Furthermore, the designs of the twin towers were, at best, ugly. They were massive, impressive, and beautiful in their own way, but overall they weren't overly nice. They were victims of the 60s, remnants of a bygone era. There was no reason to rebuild the old buildings except to satisfy the faint at heart, nostalgia obsessed people who can't get over the fact that those buildings are gone. Also, wouldn't seeing those same buildings constantly remind people of 9/11? Imagine survivors having to walk down the street and see practically the same buildings that almost killed them, and killed their friends. It was best to just go with a new design. And basically anyone who was involved with 9/11 is dead or is imprisoned, there's really no one to "stick it to."

And on top of everything else, this was a great way to start the "Lower Manhattan Renaissance" that's been going on since 9/11. The old designs were associated by many with a crumbling NYC that struggled to control crime, and a lower manhattan that was dominated by parking lots and was unsafe at night.

There are many more reasons, but that should suffice. This was all my opinion, nothing "official."
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Old April 15th, 2012, 09:17 AM   #31335
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyHighSevenNine View Post
I'm new to these forums and have only been keeping up with the last few pages of this thread because I'm interested in what's going on there.

I have a question that I'm sure has been asked before, but I would rather ask it here. If it's been discussed exhaustively in other threads on this forum could you direct me to those threads?

Anyway, the question is... why did they not rebuild the twin towers? Even if it had been with this newer design, it would've made a hell of a lot more sense considering the whole "we'll show them how we bounce back" mantra than the design they've gone with. I've seen the proposed design by Kenneth Gardner and to me it was perfect as it re-established the towers and set up a memorial to those who died and to the former towers.

I just don't understand what they're doing there. I'm not trying to crap on these new buildings... they're nice looking buildings in their own right... but to not rebuild the twins reeks of cowardice, IMO.
I think no one is sure why.
Well, due to their simplicity, grandiosity and because they were twins, the buildings were just too iconic, easy to replicate. Two simple beams of light (the Tribute in Light) are enough to evoke the towers and 9/11 itself was a very visual tragedy. The image of the towers burning was repetitively displayed on TV and photos. I think that a new set of twin towers would just be too much for some people to handle.
The Twin Towers II project was too amateur. The memorial was creepy, the setting of the buildings was bad...
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Old April 15th, 2012, 09:41 AM   #31336
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It wasn't amateur at all. The architect (Herbert Belton) worked for Emory, Roth, and Sons in the 1960s, and had worked on the original WTC. Kenneth Gardner (the man seen in the interviews) was a long-time colleague of Belton's, and was an accomplished structural engineer. I'm inclined to say they knew what they were doing, as they had complete blueprints and renderings, as well as a large-scale model.

What killed TTII was the memorial design (way too ghastly), and its more outspoken supporters. It also did nothing to restore the street grid (although it did restore Fulton street through the northern section of the site), but eschewed Greenwich. The thing I didn't care for was that it lacked the intricate gothic detail of Yamasaki's towers.

Anyway, there's a thread for this, just wanted to throw my two cents in.

On to One WTC....earlier today

image hosted on flickr

DSCN2812 by michaeldimaio, on Flickr

image hosted on flickr

DSCN2830 by michaeldimaio, on Flickr

Last edited by Chapelo; April 15th, 2012 at 10:06 AM.
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Old April 15th, 2012, 09:42 AM   #31337
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The memorial was creepy
Yeah, I can see that. I prefer the waterfall memorial to his. It's a lot more peaceful, not to mention more creative.
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Old April 15th, 2012, 11:26 AM   #31338
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I absolutely love those Ariel photo's that show all the buildings. Please more of them.
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Old April 15th, 2012, 11:38 AM   #31339
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Quote:
Originally Posted by royal rose1 View Post
Because the old buildings had a design that didn't fit with the the necessities of modern skyscrapers. For instance, the old buildings couldn't be nearly as eco-friendly as these ones, primarily because one of the main aspects of modern eco-friendly buildings is floor-to-ceiling windows that are unobstructed, the old buildings basically let in about half the amount of natural light this building does. Also, the old designs had controversy and bad memories tied to them, a lot of people don't like that, not to mention, a lot of potential tenants wouldn't like that. Just think, if "freedom tower" was too attached to 9/11 to attract tenants, how would rebuilding the twin towers not be exactly the same, but on a much larger level?

Furthermore, the designs of the twin towers were, at best, ugly. They were massive, impressive, and beautiful in their own way, but overall they weren't overly nice. They were victims of the 60s, remnants of a bygone era. There was no reason to rebuild the old buildings except to satisfy the faint at heart, nostalgia obsessed people who can't get over the fact that those buildings are gone. Also, wouldn't seeing those same buildings constantly remind people of 9/11? Imagine survivors having to walk down the street and see practically the same buildings that almost killed them, and killed their friends. It was best to just go with a new design. And basically anyone who was involved with 9/11 is dead or is imprisoned, there's really no one to "stick it to."

And on top of everything else, this was a great way to start the "Lower Manhattan Renaissance" that's been going on since 9/11. The old designs were associated by many with a crumbling NYC that struggled to control crime, and a lower manhattan that was dominated by parking lots and was unsafe at night.

There are many more reasons, but that should suffice. This was all my opinion, nothing "official."
Great post man..I wanted to say a few words, but you said it all..
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Old April 15th, 2012, 03:40 PM   #31340
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well said by royal rose 1!
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