daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > World Development News Forums > General Urban Developments > DN Archives



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old May 10th, 2012, 10:24 PM   #32321
Hudson11
Stuck on the Cross Bronx
 
Hudson11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: The Empire State
Posts: 9,510
Likes (Received): 22489

Quote:
Originally Posted by HK999 View Post
Oh yeah, it's official... good job CTBUH!

1. One World Trade Center New York City (US) 419m 1374ft 104fl 2013 composite office

http://www.skyscrapercenter.com/new-...ade-center/98/



Please change the thread title so everyone knows the truth!
it's back to being 1776ft... that's what i see at least
Hudson11 no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old May 10th, 2012, 10:36 PM   #32322
kingsc
Registered User
 
kingsc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Brooklyn
Posts: 2,761
Likes (Received): 199

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanto View Post
You can't compare observation towers to skyscrapers. The architecture of them is completely different. Skyscrapers with fat spires look ridiculous, the antenna of 1WTC looks far better proportioned than the fat spire did

And btw kingsc, ESB has no spire. As I said before, it has only an antenna and I give you official CTBUH proof of that from skyscrapercenter.com

Figures
Height: Architectural 381.0 meter / 1250 feet
Height: Occupied 373.1 meter / 1224 feet
Height: To Tip 443.2 meter / 1454 feet
Height: Observatory 373.1 meter / 1224 feet
Floors Above Ground 102
Floors Below Ground 1
# of Elevators 73
Top Elevator Speed 7.1 m/s
Tower GFA 208,879 m² / 2,248,355 ft²

As to has function/hasn't function. Both have a function. A spire's function is aesthetical and an antenna's function is broadcasting. Now let us take for example a tomato. A tomato is there for us to eat it, that's its function. However, in Spain, they have those huge tomato wars where people throw tomatoes at each other. that is a different function than eating. It doesn't matter whether you eat a tomato or throw it at somebody, it will still remain a tomato. And it doesn't matter whether you use a tall steel stick for decoration or you use it for broadcasting, it will still remain a tall stick
How you going tell ESB has no spire, when everybody and their mother know that it does. Show me a book that says it not a spire, and I'll show 10 that says it is.
__________________
My site
Entertainmentcove.weebly.com
kingsc no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 10th, 2012, 10:36 PM   #32323
Kanto
Roof height crusader
 
Kanto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: S-4, Papoose Lake
Posts: 5,925
Likes (Received): 3546

Quote:
Originally Posted by JCRM2 View Post
Um the ESB has a Art Deco Spire. Plz go back and learn history. The spire starts from the 86th observation deck to the 102nd level. That's 1,250 feet of pure design from top to bottom. Al smith wanted his building to outshine Crystals and her art deco's spire, so he builded a massive spire on top of his building, which gave it its signature symbolic *look. ESB is a example of what a building looks when it has both elements stack on top of each other.
Now spire and antennas are NOT the samething. Spires just happens to look like a antenna but functions as a format designed with the building giving it new heights. It's what gives buildings character and meaning. Antenna surfs *as a broadcast system on top of a building. That is it. You have a building as its own and a separate piece of object that does its own work on top of a mass. It doesn't do anything for a building but gives us reception.*

1776 may be a*imaginary number, however regardless that spire would have gotten it there with meaning and symbolism, like wise antenna will do nothing but reach an imaginary feet that surfs no purpose. It's just a number with a antenna. With that being said, 1WTC will only be symbolic now because of its dark past not for its great new heights.*
Nope, Otie has proven that the architect called the upper observation tower section a spire. But on the other hand, the PA still calls the new antenna on 1WTC a spire. If one calls a rock Duke it doesn't mean that it is not a rock. The upper section of ESB has an occupied floor on top of it and therefore can't be named a spire. If yes, then entire buildings and entire observation towers could be called spires. Even the fact that below that top floor there are only stairs and elevators still doesn't make it a spire cause then still an entire observation tower could be called a spire. A spire has no occupied floors in it, only mechanical maintenance floors

As to a spire and a tomato, maybe comparing it to people is a better comparison. Let's say we have two dudes, one is an iron worker and one is a lawyer. If they are identically dressed somebody who don't knows them won't know which one is the lawyer and which one is the iron worker. That's the same as when one who doesn't know a building looks at its steel stick he/she aren't able to determine if it's a spire or if it's an antenna. Just as you clasify people from different professions as people, you can classify both a spire and an antenna as a steel stick. Besides, 1WTC's spire wouldn't be just the cladding, the whole stick that would be seen would then be the spire, so it really is identical in my opinion

Btw, Hudson, I can see it as 1374/419 in the thread title.
__________________
The Outbreak: A free browser online strategy game. Build up your town and compete with other towns economicaly and militarily.
http://www.the-outbreak.com/
Kanto no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 10th, 2012, 10:43 PM   #32324
KillerZavatar
also known as Wally
 
KillerZavatar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Düsseldorf
Posts: 11,330
Likes (Received): 8230

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanto View Post
Btw, Hudson, I can see it as 1374/419 in the thread title.
i think he meant the data on CTBUH.org which lists it still (or again?) at 1776feet.
KillerZavatar no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 10th, 2012, 10:46 PM   #32325
kingsc
Registered User
 
kingsc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Brooklyn
Posts: 2,761
Likes (Received): 199

Let them put that rusty bull shit on top of this building. Then lets hope someone will build something taller so it won't be the tallest in the city. Because this is bullshit to the highest degree.
__________________
My site
Entertainmentcove.weebly.com
kingsc no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 10th, 2012, 10:48 PM   #32326
KillerZavatar
also known as Wally
 
KillerZavatar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Düsseldorf
Posts: 11,330
Likes (Received): 8230

Quote:
Originally Posted by kingsc View Post
Let them put that rusty bull shit on top of this building. Then lets hope someone will build something taller so it won't be the tallest in the city. Because this is bullshit to the highest degree.
432PA will become the tallest in the city (and country) when built then.
KillerZavatar no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 10th, 2012, 10:50 PM   #32327
Kanto
Roof height crusader
 
Kanto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: S-4, Papoose Lake
Posts: 5,925
Likes (Received): 3546

Quote:
Originally Posted by kingsc View Post
Let them put that rusty bull shit on top of this building. Then lets hope someone will build something taller so it won't be the tallest in the city. Because this is bullshit to the highest degree.
I dunno, but is an imaginary number really reason enough for you to start hating this masterpiece of a building?

Btw, if 432 Park will remain as tall as it is known now, it will still be the second tallest in America because the Willis Tower is taller
__________________
The Outbreak: A free browser online strategy game. Build up your town and compete with other towns economicaly and militarily.
http://www.the-outbreak.com/
Kanto no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 10th, 2012, 10:51 PM   #32328
tim1807
faster than buildings
 
tim1807's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Den Helder
Posts: 10,325
Likes (Received): 5334

At least 432 park avenue won't get a spire, so there will be no misunderstandings about that.
tim1807 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 10th, 2012, 10:57 PM   #32329
ThatOneGuy
Psst! Check my signature!
 
ThatOneGuy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Toronto - Bucharest - Freeport
Posts: 21,479

"Rusty?" STFU. Ugh
ThatOneGuy no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 10th, 2012, 11:03 PM   #32330
iloveclassicrock7
Vigilant Citizen
 
iloveclassicrock7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Tulsa
Posts: 1,311
Likes (Received): 246

Quote:
Originally Posted by Otie View Post
If y'all wanna go technical, what they're going to put on top is not an antenna either, but a steel tower that will allow transmission equipment to be mounted on it, just like Four Times Square.
So here comes the real discussion: if someone puts a large steel tower atop of any building with no purposed intended:
  • Should it be considered as part of the overal architectural height?
  • At which moment a steel tower sitting on top becomes an architectural feature?
There are three things that can happen here. The first, is that they will count it as an antennae, and the building will be 417 meters. The second is that they cheat, and call something that is clearly an antennae a spire. The third is they count all antennae. Although I only go by pinnacle, roof, and highest floor. I still think that 1 WTC shouldn't and won't get the 541m official height. Why ? They have said it will be an antennae, if they count it, then they need to count all antennae's. Which will mean that the Sears Tower is 527 meters, the John Hancock is 457 meters, and the Empire State Building is 443 meters. Chances are they won't. The WSJ and NY nimby article basically said that it wouldn't be counted, so I think they are leaning toward that. Whatever happens, I hope it is fair
iloveclassicrock7 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 10th, 2012, 11:07 PM   #32331
Kanto
Roof height crusader
 
Kanto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: S-4, Papoose Lake
Posts: 5,925
Likes (Received): 3546

I've updated my diagram with the latest revalation that the roof won't be 418 meters or 1371 feet but 419 meters or 1374 feet

Roof height used below!

[IMG]http://i48.************/2aez1pf.jpg[/IMG]

1WTC = 389 meters or 1277 feet out of 419 meters or 1374 feet
4WTC = Approximately 273 meters or 895 feet out of 298 meters or 977 feet
157 = 248 meters or 815 feet out of 306 meters or 1005 feet

(Note: I used the 419 meter figure for 1WTC when measured from the lowest above ground entrance and I used the 298 meter figure for 4WTC.)
__________________
The Outbreak: A free browser online strategy game. Build up your town and compete with other towns economicaly and militarily.
http://www.the-outbreak.com/

Last edited by Kanto; May 10th, 2012 at 11:12 PM.
Kanto no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 10th, 2012, 11:10 PM   #32332
Funkyskunk2
Registered User
 
Funkyskunk2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 619
Likes (Received): 808

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThatOneGuy View Post
"Rusty?" STFU. Ugh
Can't blame them. Why they would release a render with that horrible lighting I do not know. It's like they wanted the tower to look as terrible as possible.
Funkyskunk2 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 10th, 2012, 11:11 PM   #32333
tim1807
faster than buildings
 
tim1807's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Den Helder
Posts: 10,325
Likes (Received): 5334

In your note there is still 418m.
tim1807 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 10th, 2012, 11:12 PM   #32334
Kanto
Roof height crusader
 
Kanto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: S-4, Papoose Lake
Posts: 5,925
Likes (Received): 3546

Fixed
__________________
The Outbreak: A free browser online strategy game. Build up your town and compete with other towns economicaly and militarily.
http://www.the-outbreak.com/
Kanto no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 10th, 2012, 11:19 PM   #32335
yankee fan for life
Registered User
 
yankee fan for life's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Brooklyn new york
Posts: 832
Likes (Received): 195

Gentlemen i have to admit but to my opinion the issues that kanto was addressing form the begging has blown up in your faces,if their was a clear definition between the distinction between a spire and a antenna and should it really count as a buildings additional height we would not be in this dilemma.
__________________
My heart beats for Brooklyn new york
yankee fan for life no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 10th, 2012, 11:19 PM   #32336
spectre000
Moderator
 
spectre000's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: St. Paul
Posts: 7,904
Likes (Received): 5170

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hudson11 View Post
it's back to being 1776ft... that's what i see at least
Yeah, looks like there going to wait and see. No sense in jumping the gun.
spectre000 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 10th, 2012, 11:31 PM   #32337
Jay
Registered User
 
Jay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: California to Barcelona
Posts: 4,054
Likes (Received): 1863

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hudson11 View Post
it's back to being 1776ft... that's what i see at least
Strange, I would get my hopes up but that could just end in more dissapointment.
Jay no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 10th, 2012, 11:38 PM   #32338
Evrasia 99911
Оленятинка!
 
Evrasia 99911's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Moscow
Posts: 26,420
Likes (Received): 35632

419 meters? - it's a joke?
Funny, funny, interesting joke. Thank you.

So this is a joke?
__________________
|||2017|||
Evrasia 99911 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 10th, 2012, 11:42 PM   #32339
KillerZavatar
also known as Wally
 
KillerZavatar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Düsseldorf
Posts: 11,330
Likes (Received): 8230

http://ctbuh.org/News/GlobalTallNews...B/Default.aspx

the official response of CTBUH is out.

Quote:
Questions on One World Trade Center Height

May 10, 2012

Changes to the design of the top of One World Trade Center have raised questions about the ultimate height of the tower, which is currently planned as the tallest building in North America.

As first reported by the New York Times, the Durst Organization has removed the cladding for the structure on top of the tower, which may change the calculation of the building’s ultimate height. Based on preliminary information, it is unclear whether the remaining structure will be included in the final measurement, which could cut several hundred feet off the building’s official architectural height.

The result was a wave of articles and calls to the CTBUH, which is widely regarded as the arbiter of height measurements and the lists of tallest buildings in the world. The Wall Street Journal, New York Post, New York Daily News and Associated Press covered the story.

In response the CTBUH has released an official statement:

We are aware that changes have been announced to the design of the structure on top of One World Trade Center, which may affect the final height measurement for the building. We understand that sculptural cladding has been removed, which will change the structure.

One World Trade Center, which is still under construction, is currently listed in the CTBUH’s Skyscraper Center at an anticipated height to “architectural top” of 1,776 feet. This includes the structure described in the materials previously provided by the architect as a spire. A spire is typically a permanent structure and part of the architecture and artistic expression of the building.

The CTBUH includes spires in its height measurement to “architectural top,” the primary category in ranking the tallest buildings in the world. But antennas, masts, water towers and other functional-technical structures – which often are not designed by the architect of the building and change according to prevalent technologies – are not included in the height measurement to the architectural top. However, they are included in measurements to the architectural “tip,” a secondary category tracked by the CTBUH. Definitions can be found on the CTBUH website at www.CTBUH.org.

At this point, since the building is far from completion, there is no final determination on the height of One World Trade Center. A final determination will be made by the CTBUH Technical Height Committee based on analysis of the drawings and other information submitted by the building owner, development and consultant team. Building designs often change during construction and final ratification of the height and formal recognition on the list of 100 Tallest Completed Building in the World occur after the building is officially completed and application details submitted.

Over 40 years the CTBUH has developed detailed criteria for measuring the height of buildings, which are widely accepted in the industry. Any disputes are resolved by the CTBUH Height Committee - a panel of industry experts specifically set up for this purpose.

For more data on One World Trade Center and thousands of tall buildings around the world, including tallest rankings, visit The Skyscraper Center (www.skyscrapercenter.com)
so no real opinion, yet.

Last edited by KillerZavatar; May 10th, 2012 at 11:48 PM.
KillerZavatar no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old May 10th, 2012, 11:44 PM   #32340
iloveclassicrock7
Vigilant Citizen
 
iloveclassicrock7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Tulsa
Posts: 1,311
Likes (Received): 246

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay View Post
Strange, I would get my hopes up but that could just end in more dissapointment.
They just haven't made a decision, or aren't listing it until they make it official. I wouldn't get your hopes up, this is definitely an antennae, and will not be counted.
iloveclassicrock7 no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
construction updates, development, ground zero, manhattan, new york city, nyc, port authority, supertall, world trade center

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 04:11 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2017 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

Hosted by Blacksun, dedicated to this site too!
Forum server management by DaiTengu