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Old August 1st, 2012, 08:36 AM   #35881
Enigmatism415
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PMadFlyer View Post
I made this, hope it helps.
image hosted on flickr

Column length by PMadFlyer, on Flickr
It looks like those top knots hold spandrel beams.
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Old August 1st, 2012, 12:54 PM   #35883
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Originally Posted by billgates View Post
"So just as two towers are finally nearing completion at the World Trade Center — adding substantially to the Lower Manhattan office inventory — Brookfield Office Properties, the publicly traded owner of the World Financial Center, finds itself trying to fill three million square feet, most of it currently leased by Bank of America for its Merrill Lynch unit. The bank is moving most of these offices to its tower at One Bryant Park on 42nd Street and the Avenue of the Americas, and has renewed only 800,000 square feet of its original 2.7 million square feet."

From the NYTimes.

Bad news for 2 and 3 wtc.
From what I know the space at the WTC is far superior to that at the WFC. It's 20+ years newer after all
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Old August 1st, 2012, 02:42 PM   #35884
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An amazing moment... after all these years, finally New York and World Trade center are exactly where they are supposed to be! Congratulations New York!
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Old August 1st, 2012, 05:01 PM   #35885
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My apologies Enigmatism, I didn't realize this...

And something I just realized this morning: To clear up the confusion on whether or not the parapet is angled or vertical, since the spandrel beams each must function in a perfect square, I am positive I have reached the final conclusion. From the remainder of floor 105 (1,325') to the actual roof (1,334') and slightly higher, all parapet beams / floor 105 beams are vertical to house the actual roof. If just the corner nodes were vertical, the square would be offset, thus causing for crooked spandrel beams. Around 1,335'-1,336', all the beams bend for the remainder of the height. (AKA the next three levels of spandrel beams).
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Old August 1st, 2012, 05:24 PM   #35886
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanto View Post
From what I know the space at the WTC is far superior to that at the WFC. It's 20+ years newer after all
Newness in itself is not superior. If it is better, it is for reasons other than being new.

In my opinion older buildings typically have "better" space. Granted "better" is a not a quantitative metric. For instance, prestige can be a valid criteria at times. And then there are numerous other criteria such as ceiling height.

Ceiling height alone could be enough to make the WTC be considered superior. However I wouldn't attribute that to newness. After all, old building tend to have higher ceilings due to the lack of air conditioning and the need for natural light.
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Old August 1st, 2012, 06:55 PM   #35887
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dfiler View Post
Newness in itself is not superior. If it is better, it is for reasons other than being new.

In my opinion older buildings typically have "better" space. Granted "better" is a not a quantitative metric. For instance, prestige can be a valid criteria at times. And then there are numerous other criteria such as ceiling height.

Ceiling height alone could be enough to make the WTC be considered superior. However I wouldn't attribute that to newness. After all, old building tend to have higher ceilings due to the lack of air conditioning and the need for natural light.
Price also comes into factor. Many areas, like the Hudson Yards, are offering their rates at lower amounts per square foot. I'd expect the WFC to have lower price tags than WTC.
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Old August 1st, 2012, 07:17 PM   #35888
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This is not New York Style!
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Old August 1st, 2012, 07:18 PM   #35889
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dfiler View Post
Newness in itself is not superior. If it is better, it is for reasons other than being new.

In my opinion older buildings typically have "better" space. Granted "better" is a not a quantitative metric. For instance, prestige can be a valid criteria at times. And then there are numerous other criteria such as ceiling height.

Ceiling height alone could be enough to make the WTC be considered superior. However I wouldn't attribute that to newness. After all, old building tend to have higher ceilings due to the lack of air conditioning and the need for natural light.
I thought the newer buildings would have an edge when it meant roof height.
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Old August 1st, 2012, 08:21 PM   #35890
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brehynnermraz View Post
This is not New York Style!
And this is not a thread where you can discuss the twin towers.
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Old August 1st, 2012, 08:21 PM   #35891
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brehynnermraz View Post
This is not New York Style!
You said this twice, stop spamming. Moderators aren't afraid to ban.
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Old August 1st, 2012, 08:30 PM   #35892
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Quote:
Originally Posted by L.A.F.2. View Post
My apologies Enigmatism, I didn't realize this...

And something I just realized this morning: To clear up the confusion on whether or not the parapet is angled or vertical, since the spandrel beams each must function in a perfect square, I am positive I have reached the final conclusion. From the remainder of floor 105 (1,325') to the actual roof (1,334') and slightly higher, all parapet beams / floor 105 beams are vertical to house the actual roof. If just the corner nodes were vertical, the square would be offset, thus causing for crooked spandrel beams. Around 1,335'-1,336', all the beams bend for the remainder of the height. (AKA the next three levels of spandrel beams).
If parapet columns continue to slope upward at the same angle without bending, then corner nodes would be crooked and bend inward. This is the case (in my opinion) because all of the photos of the corner node show the bend in the steel after the three columns intersect. After the intersection, above the anti-prism, there is a square pyramid frustum.
If, "From the remainder of floor 105 (1,325') to the actual roof (1,334') and slightly higher, all parapet beams / floor 105 beams are vertical," then the shape of the top just wouldn't make sense. According to this diagram, they are slanted.
image hosted on flickr
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Old August 1st, 2012, 09:06 PM   #35893
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But, as shown in a close up picture in a truck posted a while back, only the final ~8 feet of the triplecolumn are bent, and the rest is not. Thus, it must be vertical up until the next to last knot of the beam where it begins inward. If the remaining parapet beams were angled inward the whole way up, the aerial view of the "square" would have extended, acute-angled corners, which would not make a square, thus causing for complications with the spandrel beams at the bottom 2 levels. Therefore, for the spandrel beams to make a perfect square, all the parapet beams must as well be vertical up until the next to last knot, in which they bend as the corner nodes do. The very top level of spandrel beams would be slightly^1000 smaller, but still a square. So the bend in the parapet is only ~8 feet between the top 2 knots of the parapet.

We both were wrong. It is vertical up to ~1,360 feet and the remainder is bent inward.

Last edited by L.A.F.2.; August 1st, 2012 at 09:11 PM.
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Old August 1st, 2012, 09:36 PM   #35894
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just moved into my apartment in the east village, and we can see wtc from the roof! so excited to be here. will post pics soon.
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Old August 1st, 2012, 09:45 PM   #35895
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Just to make sure I use the correct terminology, I meant that the pink columns are always slanted at the same angle and the corner node is vertical the whole length up to the intersection in the triplecolumn, and for the final few feet, it bends inward.
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Old August 1st, 2012, 10:00 PM   #35896
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I understand, it's just that if that were the case, lower and mid level spandrel beams connected to corner nodes would be crooked, and complications in the angle would be difficult as far as finding the exact right spot for the connector knot on the corner nodes and the parapet beams next to them. But it's all good now.

Any more progress?
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Old August 1st, 2012, 10:09 PM   #35897
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I still dont understand what you mean because its hard to imagine what you are saying without a diagram. Oh well. At least were sure that in the end, the parapet will look all right.

Also, dont see any progress with steel. Here in NJ, theres lightning, so maybe thats why.
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Old August 1st, 2012, 10:16 PM   #35898
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its wet.

thats enough really. corrugated metal deck is rolled with oil. when it rains it is like a sheet of ice.
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Old August 1st, 2012, 10:31 PM   #35899
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My uploading website is malfunctioning and I can't find a decent picture online. See if you can understand this (I know it is pathetic ):

\_
.|
.|
.|
/

This is one side of the "square" that lies in between two corner nodes. The red lines represent the spandrel beams on the parapet, with the lines under them where the vertical parapet beams are. The black dots represent the area outside of the building. Pretend it is one continuous line. Where the line begins at the top is a corner node, and same for where it ends. If all of the parapet is angled except the corner nodes, the spandrel beams not connected to a corner node will be sides to a smaller square. But if the corner nodes are vertical up to 1,360', this is how the levels of spandrel beams will look on the lower and middle levels. The corners (Sorry pretend the corner nodes are corners on this) are extended to an acute angle. I am saying this is impractical because of the complications in the direction the connector knots on the parapet beams. The spandrel beams connected to corner nodes would be at an angle, and creating the correct angle on the connector knots for them would be difficult. Hope you can understand this somehow.
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Old August 1st, 2012, 11:00 PM   #35900
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I might be wrong, but shouldn't the top of the parapet be a perfect square?
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