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Old February 24th, 2008, 07:16 PM   #3801
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Msradell View Post
If you look back in history the U.S. Steel industry used to be the leader in the world and able to produce larger and bigger steel and anyone in the world and our steel production tonnage with huge. Today U.S. Steel industry has shrunk to the point it's hardly competitive in any product line. The U.S. auto industry even import roll steel for auto production.

This has nothing to do with raw material availability since Luxembourg imports a majority of their raw materials. It has all to do with the decline of U.S. industry.


Easy for you to say since you're not from the U.S.! For U.S. citizens globalization is an indicator of the decline of our leadership in the world.


Actually, construction of the original towers started more than 40 years ago and they were completed 35 years ago.
Please shut up, you don't speak for all US citizens, and you make the rest of us look ignorant. Go read a book and learn globilazation will help us in the long run if we play it right.
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Old February 24th, 2008, 07:41 PM   #3802
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Would you people ever read the rules?
Anyone who posts bullshit nationalistic comments gets an infraction.
If someone else posts a bullshit nationalistic comment and you post one in reply then you get an infraction as well.
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Old February 24th, 2008, 07:54 PM   #3803
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Well getting back on topic... It's been a while since I've passed by this thread, but from the last few pictures that were posted a few pages back, it looks like the Freedom Tower is coming along just fine.
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Old February 24th, 2008, 08:16 PM   #3804
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ElVoltageDR View Post
Well getting back on topic... It's been a while since I've passed by this thread, but from the last few pictures that were posted a few pages back, it looks like the Freedom Tower is coming along just fine.


Yes it is!

In a couple more months or by this spring, it should be at street level.

And who cares where the steel is coming from as long as the tower gets built? Steel is steel.
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Old February 24th, 2008, 11:48 PM   #3805
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Hi Everyone
This is my first post in this thread, and after looking through the last five pages I can only say the least, that this buliding and complex may I add, is truly captivating and inspiring. It is a symbol to the world and an icon in the making.
Everyone here i'm sure is enjoying watching this beautiful building rise from the earth and sore above all things and are lucky to be witnessing history being made.
Now, as a new comer to this forum i don't know much about this tower or complex, except that it will be 541m high, the developer is Silverstien and that the foundation took something like 2 years to complete.
As a skyscraper enthusiast, I would love to know more about what has happened so far in the journey, and what we are expecting to see happen within the next few months or so. So i have a few questions that i would really like answered, and I hope that someone (or maybe a few! ) can help.

1. Why did the foundation work take so long to complete?
2. Will this tower be made completely out of steel? (please excuse me if this is embarrassing cause i'm no engineer or anything)
3. In a birds eye view of the construction site, which area will be the site of the Freedom Tower?
4. Will the tower serve any other purposes such as skydeck, public lobby etc?
5. What has been the latest significant progress made on the structure?
6. What progress are we expecting to see within the coming weeks or couple of months?

Thanks to All in Advance!!
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Old February 25th, 2008, 01:49 AM   #3806
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Infrasuper Planet View Post
Hi Everyone
This is my first post in this thread, and after looking through the last five pages I can only say the least, that this buliding and complex may I add, is truly captivating and inspiring. It is a symbol to the world and an icon in the making.
Everyone here i'm sure is enjoying watching this beautiful building rise from the earth and sore above all things and are lucky to be witnessing history being made.
Now, as a new comer to this forum i don't know much about this tower or complex, except that it will be 541m high, the developer is Silverstien and that the foundation took something like 2 years to complete.
As a skyscraper enthusiast, I would love to know more about what has happened so far in the journey, and what we are expecting to see happen within the next few months or so. So i have a few questions that i would really like answered, and I hope that someone (or maybe a few! ) can help.

1. Why did the foundation work take so long to complete?
2. Will this tower be made completely out of steel? (please excuse me if this is embarrassing cause i'm no engineer or anything)
3. In a birds eye view of the construction site, which area will be the site of the Freedom Tower?
4. Will the tower serve any other purposes such as skydeck, public lobby etc?
5. What has been the latest significant progress made on the structure?
6. What progress are we expecting to see within the coming weeks or couple of months?

Thanks to All in Advance!!



You're welcome!


1. Standard operating procedure due to the complexity of the work involved.

2. Steel above the concrete base, steel and concrete below.

3. In the northwest corner of Ground Zero.

4. Obs deck and restaurant.

5. The steel columns were installed on the foundation, the core is growing and the basement / garage floors are being put in.

6. Steel should be at street level or slightly above it by then.

Last edited by Daquan13; February 25th, 2008 at 08:29 AM.
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Old February 25th, 2008, 02:47 AM   #3807
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ebola View Post
It's not sad at all and doesn't prove anyting about the current state of the US because there are literally only one or two places on the face of the planet that can produce the mega beams specifically needed for this project, and their location has do with natural resources. Plants in the US still process this steel and I'm sure that, even though the PA has decided to use several foreign firms to produce different parts of the building, almost everything could have been done without the help of other places, yet it's clear that they wanted the rest of the world to be a part of the process simply by looking at all of the architects picked for the projects within the WTC megaplot.

That is the best response in this thread I have seen yet that corresponds to this bullshit about the steel.. Its not like we dont have steel plants here in the USA, but like Ebola said, its all about the natual resources. This is truly a multi-national effort in the end, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. We are no longer in the old days where the USA seemed to make the "best of everything." I have heard in the past however with the advancements in the strength of steel, that the plants on the east coast are responsible for the extra strength and resilience.
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Old February 25th, 2008, 02:55 AM   #3808
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I also want to add that the bath-tub construction, and all of the infrastructure for this development underground is extremely intricate.. considering this, the construction really is NOT going that slow!!!!

Yes the WTC site is "only" 16 acres, but there is a lot of shit that they are cramming in that area. Once the tower(s) reach street level, there will be a beyond significant increase in the speed of construction, even considering that the core walls will be at least 3 ft thick of some of the densest concrete known to man.
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Old February 25th, 2008, 03:03 AM   #3809
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I hadn't noticed this before, but design in the top part of the tower resembles one of the world trace center towers. It stands out from the rest of the design which is also incorporated in the other buldings. Very nice.
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Old February 25th, 2008, 03:28 AM   #3810
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http://www.nydailynews.com/news/2008...rade_cent.html
Pros fear new towers at World Trade Center site have security gaps

by greg b. smith and douglas feiden
daily news staff writers

Sunday, February 24th 2008, 4:00 AM



Law enforcement officials have major concerns about security weaknesses in the planned World Trade Center complex, a Daily News investigation has found.

The potential problems expressed to the Port Authority and others involved in the most high-profile development project in New York City history include:

A row of three mostly glass towers positioned too closely to city streets, increasing their vulnerability to attack.

Difficulties in inspecting some 2,000 delivery trucks and sightseeing buses that will enter or leave the site daily.

A vehicle security center that hasn't been fully designed and relies on vehicle inspection technology that hasn't even been developed yet.

Asked about weaknesses uncovered by The News in the plans for rebuilding Ground Zero, Deputy Police Commissioner Paul Browne said, "The NYPD has been in talks with the Port Authority, but we don't disclose any information about possible security vulnerabilities for obvious reasons."

Port Authority spokesman Stephen Sigmund said the agency is "very confident that the entire rebuilt WTC site - every building and every square inch - will operate with an unprecedented level of safety and security."

Michael Balboni, Gov. Spitzer's deputy secretary for public safety, emphasized, "At the end of the day, this will be one of the most secure footprints on the globe."

Law enforcement counterterrorism specialists have pinpointed serious flaws in key components of the Trade Center site, including three of the signature office towers projected to open by 2012.

Towers 2, 3 and 4 - which will rise between Greenwich and Church Sts. to 79, 71 and 64 stories, respectively - contain too much glass, sources familiar with the issues said.

They also are not set back far enough from the two streets - where uninspected trucks will whiz by - to meet the most rigorous security standards, the sources said.

"The reimposition of the street grid is an integral part of the plan to bring vibrancy to lower Manhattan," said Avi Schick, chairman of the Lower Manhattan Development Corp.

"The administration understands the need to balance that goal with legitimate security concerns."

Another concern: The buildings do not meet Department of Defense or Department of Homeland Security blast standards. That means they can withstand certain types of explosions - but not more powerful blasts.

The DOD blast standards - rarely applied to U.S. skyscrapers - are typically used in U.S. embassies and missions abroad, sensitive government facilities and military bases.

Counterterrorism officials contend that because of the 1993 and 2001 attacks on the World Trade Center, and Al Qaeda's pattern of repeatedly striking targets, DOD blast standards should be used in the Ground Zero buildings.

"The plans have been out for quite a while on these buildings, and it would have been nice to voice these concerns at the start rather than wait until now," said Assembly Speaker Sheldon Silver, who represents lower Manhattan. "The community wants to move forward."

A spokesman for Larry Silverstein, the developer of the three towers, declined to comment on security issues.

Silverstein's buildings - including a 1,270-foot giant that will be taller than the Empire State Building - have been designed with a steel-encased concrete core and engineered with safety systems exceeding the city's building code and the requirements of the Port Authority, his company says.

The Freedom Tower's extra safety measures - including being set back farther from the street, thicker glass and upgraded blast standards - were done after the NYPD raised questions about the building's weaknesses. Similar changes were made to the trade center's transportation hub after issues arose.

Asked about the overall effort to ensure the new trade center is secure, James Kallstrom, the former director of the FBI's New York office and former Gov. George Pataki's homeland security chief, said: "It's complicated. It's a very crowded area. It's not easy ... It's going to require state-of-the-art technology and competent, trained manpower."

The need for screening every single truck entering the area and the difficulties of carefully managing inspections were key issues Kallstrom addressed in a report he completed before leaving government last year.

Kallstrom and Balboni declined to discuss the report's recommendations, though Balboni said most were being implemented.

While inspecting thousands of vehicles a day is tough enough, the problem is more complicated in lower Manhattan because of narrow streets and thick traffic.

"We can't let anything enter the underground in that acreage that could have the potential for certain size devices or bombs without proper screening," Kallstrom said.

All delivery trucks and buses will access the complex through a new Vehicular Security Center, an underground complex with an entrance and exit on Liberty St. that will function as the central security checkpoint.

The $478 million project has been on the drawing boards since 2003 and was to start last April, but all the Port Authority has done is move some utilities and sewer lines.

Delays in demolition of the toxic former Deutsche Bank tower have made it close to impossible for construction of the subterranean project to begin.

Bids for a contractor haven't gone out, and excavation of the so-called south bathtub for the center hasn't begun, the bistate agency confirmed.

"Obviously, the fact that [Deutsche Bank] is not down presents some serious challenges to the VSC," Sigmund said.

There's more: The design and engineering specifications, which the Port Authority said in 2006 were being finalized, are not ready, and the screening technology does not exist.

Nevertheless, the PA said the Vehicular Security Center is set to be finished when the other buildings come on line, by 2011 or 2012.

"We will have the appropriate technology to do the screening when the VSC is completed," Sigmund said, noting the facility will meet DOD and Homeland Security standards.

Sigmund said they would inspect vehicles "off-site or in a holding area if necessary," declining to specify where it would take place.

That's a nightmare scenario for downtown residents, who say they're worried the Sept. 11 museum and other buildings will open before the Vehicular Security Center is completed, compromising security and the quality of life.

Asked if he was troubled the center has fallen behind schedule, Balboni said: "I'm not concerned yet, but that could change. We're watching it very closely."

[email protected]
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Old February 25th, 2008, 05:56 AM   #3811
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Michael Balboni, Gov. Spitzer's deputy secretary for public safety, emphasized, "At the end of the day, this will be one of the most secure footprints on the globe."


I agree with this 200% no matter what. They will figure out a way to really secure this property.. no matter how many different possible configurations this project can take, there will ALWAYS be vulnerabilities. There will most likely be different stages of checks done on all vehicles, as well as metal detectors at all pedestrian entrances.

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Old February 25th, 2008, 11:55 AM   #3812
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daquan13 View Post
You're welcome!


1. Standard operating procedure due to the complexity of the work involved.

2. Steel above the concrete base, steel and concrete below.

3. In the northwest corner of Ground Zero.

4. Obs deck and restaurant.

5. The steel columns were installed on the foundation, the core is growing and the basement / garage floors are being put in.

6. Steel should be at street level or slightly above it by then.
Ur a Legend Man!
Thanks Alot Buddy!! Now I can follow this thread from the last post onwards and watch this Queen soar into the sky with a sense of "Yes!, i was there from the start" lol, i'm sure u know what i mean
Cheers

P.S This also happens to be my 100th post!! YAY
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Last edited by Infrasuper Planet; February 25th, 2008 at 11:56 AM. Reason: To Recognise my 100th post
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Old February 25th, 2008, 03:36 PM   #3813
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You're welcome, and congrats on your 100th post!
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Old February 25th, 2008, 04:58 PM   #3814
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TalB View Post
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/2008...rade_cent.html
Pros fear new towers at World Trade Center site have security gaps

by greg b. smith and douglas feiden
daily news staff writers

Sunday, February 24th 2008, 4:00 AM



Law enforcement officials have major concerns about security weaknesses in the planned World Trade Center complex, a Daily News investigation has found.

The potential problems expressed to the Port Authority and others involved in the most high-profile development project in New York City history include:

A row of three mostly glass towers positioned too closely to city streets, increasing their vulnerability to attack.

Difficulties in inspecting some 2,000 delivery trucks and sightseeing buses that will enter or leave the site daily.

A vehicle security center that hasn't been fully designed and relies on vehicle inspection technology that hasn't even been developed yet.

Asked about weaknesses uncovered by The News in the plans for rebuilding Ground Zero, Deputy Police Commissioner Paul Browne said, "The NYPD has been in talks with the Port Authority, but we don't disclose any information about possible security vulnerabilities for obvious reasons."

Port Authority spokesman Stephen Sigmund said the agency is "very confident that the entire rebuilt WTC site - every building and every square inch - will operate with an unprecedented level of safety and security."

Michael Balboni, Gov. Spitzer's deputy secretary for public safety, emphasized, "At the end of the day, this will be one of the most secure footprints on the globe."

Law enforcement counterterrorism specialists have pinpointed serious flaws in key components of the Trade Center site, including three of the signature office towers projected to open by 2012.

Towers 2, 3 and 4 - which will rise between Greenwich and Church Sts. to 79, 71 and 64 stories, respectively - contain too much glass, sources familiar with the issues said.

They also are not set back far enough from the two streets - where uninspected trucks will whiz by - to meet the most rigorous security standards, the sources said.

"The reimposition of the street grid is an integral part of the plan to bring vibrancy to lower Manhattan," said Avi Schick, chairman of the Lower Manhattan Development Corp.

"The administration understands the need to balance that goal with legitimate security concerns."

Another concern: The buildings do not meet Department of Defense or Department of Homeland Security blast standards. That means they can withstand certain types of explosions - but not more powerful blasts.

The DOD blast standards - rarely applied to U.S. skyscrapers - are typically used in U.S. embassies and missions abroad, sensitive government facilities and military bases.

Counterterrorism officials contend that because of the 1993 and 2001 attacks on the World Trade Center, and Al Qaeda's pattern of repeatedly striking targets, DOD blast standards should be used in the Ground Zero buildings.

"The plans have been out for quite a while on these buildings, and it would have been nice to voice these concerns at the start rather than wait until now," said Assembly Speaker Sheldon Silver, who represents lower Manhattan. "The community wants to move forward."

A spokesman for Larry Silverstein, the developer of the three towers, declined to comment on security issues.

Silverstein's buildings - including a 1,270-foot giant that will be taller than the Empire State Building - have been designed with a steel-encased concrete core and engineered with safety systems exceeding the city's building code and the requirements of the Port Authority, his company says.

The Freedom Tower's extra safety measures - including being set back farther from the street, thicker glass and upgraded blast standards - were done after the NYPD raised questions about the building's weaknesses. Similar changes were made to the trade center's transportation hub after issues arose.

Asked about the overall effort to ensure the new trade center is secure, James Kallstrom, the former director of the FBI's New York office and former Gov. George Pataki's homeland security chief, said: "It's complicated. It's a very crowded area. It's not easy ... It's going to require state-of-the-art technology and competent, trained manpower."

The need for screening every single truck entering the area and the difficulties of carefully managing inspections were key issues Kallstrom addressed in a report he completed before leaving government last year.

Kallstrom and Balboni declined to discuss the report's recommendations, though Balboni said most were being implemented.

While inspecting thousands of vehicles a day is tough enough, the problem is more complicated in lower Manhattan because of narrow streets and thick traffic.

"We can't let anything enter the underground in that acreage that could have the potential for certain size devices or bombs without proper screening," Kallstrom said.

All delivery trucks and buses will access the complex through a new Vehicular Security Center, an underground complex with an entrance and exit on Liberty St. that will function as the central security checkpoint.

The $478 million project has been on the drawing boards since 2003 and was to start last April, but all the Port Authority has done is move some utilities and sewer lines.

Delays in demolition of the toxic former Deutsche Bank tower have made it close to impossible for construction of the subterranean project to begin.

Bids for a contractor haven't gone out, and excavation of the so-called south bathtub for the center hasn't begun, the bistate agency confirmed.

"Obviously, the fact that [Deutsche Bank] is not down presents some serious challenges to the VSC," Sigmund said.

There's more: The design and engineering specifications, which the Port Authority said in 2006 were being finalized, are not ready, and the screening technology does not exist.

Nevertheless, the PA said the Vehicular Security Center is set to be finished when the other buildings come on line, by 2011 or 2012.

"We will have the appropriate technology to do the screening when the VSC is completed," Sigmund said, noting the facility will meet DOD and Homeland Security standards.

Sigmund said they would inspect vehicles "off-site or in a holding area if necessary," declining to specify where it would take place.

That's a nightmare scenario for downtown residents, who say they're worried the Sept. 11 museum and other buildings will open before the Vehicular Security Center is completed, compromising security and the quality of life.

Asked if he was troubled the center has fallen behind schedule, Balboni said: "I'm not concerned yet, but that could change. We're watching it very closely."

[email protected]
Uh-oh. they were redesigning it a year a go and now there are weaknesses!?
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Old February 25th, 2008, 05:31 PM   #3815
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I have to agree with what Sheldon Silver said. Why'd they wait so long to say that they had concerns about the security of the other 3 WTC buildings?
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Old February 25th, 2008, 05:38 PM   #3816
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Because they do thing stupid and ass-backwards.
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Old February 25th, 2008, 06:02 PM   #3817
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Wonderful article you've found TalB. This keeps me laughing for a while.

It seems that no one in this article knows anything about structural engineering and building physics.

1) A glass facade is better than a stone one, because the glass can't absorb the energy of the explosion. This way the energy of a explosion can easily escape the building without causing much structural damage.
A stone facade will partly absorb the energy and create huge forces in the structure. This can lead to more damage and failure of the structure.

2) On the street level you can protect yourself from falling glass. With a bit of luck you'll only have some cuts in your arms. With bricks or concrete elements this is another story. I don't think you'll have much chance of surviving when you get one of those on your head.

3) A fire needs oxygen, heat and fuel to keep burning. When there's a fire glass will break anyway and give the fire an oxygen boost. However when a complete curtain wall breaks the heat can escape more easily than from a small window that acts like a opening in a furnace. With a curtain wall the fire will be faster and creates less heat. This is ofcourse better for the structure of the building.
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Old February 25th, 2008, 10:27 PM   #3818
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tag_one
1) A glass facade is better than a stone one, because the glass can't absorb the energy of the explosion. This way the energy of a explosion can easily escape the building without causing much structural damage.
A stone facade will partly absorb the energy and create huge forces in the structure. This can lead to more damage and failure of the structure.
This only works if it's an implosion, not an explosion, which are two different things, but this depends on the strength of the structure of the building.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tag_one
2) On the street level you can protect yourself from falling glass. With a bit of luck you'll only have some cuts in your arms. With bricks or concrete elements this is another story. I don't think you'll have much chance of surviving when you get one of those on your head.
Keep in mind that glass falling that fast can possibly cut through blood vessels in your body causing less circulation to that area as well as blood clots from where the flow has stopped as oppossed to to a concusion on from bricks, stone, and concrete.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tag_one
3) A fire needs oxygen, heat and fuel to keep burning. When there's a fire glass will break anyway and give the fire an oxygen boost. However when a complete curtain wall breaks the heat can escape more easily than from a small window that acts like a opening in a furnace. With a curtain wall the fire will be faster and creates less heat. This is ofcourse better for the structure of the building.
However, with concrete/stone, it is easier to put out the fire where it starts b/c it will take more time to spread as oppossed to glass.
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Old February 25th, 2008, 11:25 PM   #3819
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lmfao talb.. lmfao

sooo i'm going to nyc in 6 days for a short vacation and to tour a school and i cant wait to stop by and check out ground zero!
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Old February 26th, 2008, 12:28 AM   #3820
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Like I said in the WTC 2-4 thread, do they want to build a beautiful office complex so that we can remember what once was, or do they want us to build some sort of ugly fortress? 1 WTC's lobby is already a tad ridiculous. I hope they change their minds and make it similar to the old lobbies. A man can dream... :p
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