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Old May 11th, 2008, 04:53 PM   #4541
Tag_one
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Msradell View Post
1) There were more and cheaper workers available. This speeds up the building progress.
Why? A building requires a given number of manhours to build, the cost per manhour only affects the total cost, not the time to build it

2) The ESB has a steel skeleton while the FT has a concrete core. Steel is much faster to erect than concrete
Not necessarily, many buildings that have concrete cores complete a floor in 3-4 days. Just look at some of the buildings going up in Dubai

3) In the 30's the traffic was less dense, so transport went much faster and there were no delays due to congestions
There haven't been any delays due to transportation issues. All major equipment and materials (with the exception of concrete) are moved at night when traffic is an issue

4) Today the safety restrictions are much tougher. This slows down to progress to.
Agreed, safety issues and unions do get in the way

5) For the ESB they didn't need to spend 6 month of digging caissons in worlds hardest rocks.
ESB stands on the same basic materials as FT does, besides even if you consider the six months the time to build FT is orders of magnitude longer

6) The FT needs to be much stronger than the ESB due to terrorism. This means heavier columns and beams which take more time to build.
Actually ESB is probably stronger than the new FT will be, because its exterior is stone. Don't forget ESB took a direct hit from a B-25 and only suffered superficial damage

7) The FT needs to be a sustainable and eco-friendly building. Also this consumes more time. Especially if it's one of the first green buildings build in the US.
This is true but it only significantly affects material selection. Its effect on construction time should be minimal.

If you look at the strides made in construction technology and equipment it's hard to see a logical reason why today's buildings should take so much longer than those in the past. The biggest logical explanation is the dedication of the workers.
You are not in the construction field are you

1) Not true, The more people on a side the more progress is made. Manpower affects the total amount of time needed significant. In this case it's 1+1=3

2)Even in Dubai they need at least 5-6 days a floor. The 3-4 days you talk about is just commercial talk from the developers. With steel it is possible to reach the 3-4 days a floor.

3)You've got a point there. But still the chances of delay due to the traffic are much bigger.

5)You've got a point there as well.

6)No not really. It doesn't matter whether a facade is made out of stone, glass or aluminum panels. It's the support structure that makes a building strong. The ESB is designed to handle normal loads, while the FT is designed to handle normal + exceptional loads. This means that the floors, beams and columns need to be much stronger and much bigger. And believe me this consumes time.

7) It does effect construction time. It makes a huge difference in time whether you want a normal connection between a window frame and a wall or a connection that doesn't leak heat and air.

Please check the construction planning books for most of my points
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Old May 11th, 2008, 05:29 PM   #4542
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Quote:
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maybe glass breaks earlier but that makes definitely no difference when a Boeing 777 flys into it .
and don't forget the todays materials are much better than in the 1930's, steel is much stronger now. ( also the quality of construction )

believe me: the FT will be MUCH stronger than the ESB

but if a boeing 777 crash into FT the average will be the same as if a plane crashs itno ESB...
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Old May 11th, 2008, 05:50 PM   #4543
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excelente foto

image hosted on flickr
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quiero saber si alguien tiene mejores fotos de lima de otras partes de la ciudad, pero actuales, los nuevos intercambios viales, una foto tomada de baja altura de las zonas de miraflores, san isidro o el centro de lima por el centro civico o la av. tacna. muestralos bratzoo algun buen peruano.
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Old May 11th, 2008, 06:01 PM   #4544
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From flickr by A-Train2:

image hosted on flickr
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Old May 11th, 2008, 06:13 PM   #4545
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image hosted on flickr
what is the buildin in the right side which is under construction ?
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Old May 11th, 2008, 06:18 PM   #4546
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Goldman Sachs Headquarters, 228m
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Old May 11th, 2008, 07:59 PM   #4547
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What exactly are they doing now? Are they still pouring the foundation?
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Old May 11th, 2008, 08:52 PM   #4548
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The foundation was finished some months ago. They've now started to build the core of the tower and they're pouring the basement floors. Soon the FT will rise above streetlevel
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Old May 11th, 2008, 08:59 PM   #4549
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did they finish the massive subway plan they had for that area already? ....or was it scrapped?

anybody know anything about that?
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Old May 11th, 2008, 09:34 PM   #4550
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyscraperFreak92 View Post
but if a boeing 777 crash into FT the average will be the same as if a plane crashs itno ESB...
thats not true, what do u think there going to have it as vulnerable as the esb ? no they wouldnt obvisly unless they want another 911. the steel there using for the ft is much different then normal steel. has a much higher strength, and can with stand alot hotter fires. and alot of the this tower will be reinforced concrete. which can take a blow from a plane, i'm not saying this tower is indestructible. but they have already planned this tower to with stand a huge hit, like a bomb etc. you have to remember we live in the age of terrorism. and construction materials are much stronger, especially reinforced concrete
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Old May 11th, 2008, 09:34 PM   #4551
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redbaron_012 View Post
Didn't they build the Empire State Building in 12 months ???? I know below street level seems to take a long time but hope it climbs quicker from here on....It will still be years though....
Quote:
Originally Posted by metsfan View Post
I think it's because they had a really good system in place and plenty of workers. Different projects just have different minimum completion timetables.

- Andy
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrazyAboutCities View Post
Do not forget that was in the Depression Era. A lot of people were desperate for jobs. Most of New Yorkers who were unemployed at around that time got the jobs to build hundreds of skyscrapers in the 30s.
[...]


Just as a piece of information: the Bank of America Plaza building, in Atlanta, was also built in only 14 months in the early 1990s.

Last edited by Taller & Taller; May 11th, 2008 at 09:39 PM.
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Old May 12th, 2008, 02:21 PM   #4552
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[QUOTE=Tag_one;20574502]You are not in the construction field are you

Please check the construction planning books for most of my points /QUOTE]

Actually, I am in the construction field and have been for almost 30 years, that's why I get so frustrated with the slow pace of construction today. Technology has advanced significantly yet build times have extended. When ESB, the Pentagon, Chrysler building etc. were built they didn't have concrete pumps, tower cranes etc. things that should help reduce construction times significantly.

As far as construction planning books (software in my case) goes, they are actually just based on historical times required for a given task so they just mirror reality. I've not seen any older planning books and I'm actually not sure they ever existed when some of the buildings we're talking about were built. If they did they also would just represent the historical times required for a given task.

The American construction industry needs some significant changes in order to remain competitive in world markets. Union labor wants to become more flexible and dedicated to the industry instead of to themselves. If changes don't occur we won't see many landmark structures built in the future because of prohibitive costs!
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Old May 13th, 2008, 04:02 AM   #4553
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http://www.nydailynews.com/news/2008...ckly_will.html
Failure to rebuild WTC site quickly will cost taxpayers

BY DOUGLAS FEIDEN
DAILY NEWS STAFF WRITER

Updated Monday, May 12th 2008, 11:09 AM


Photos by Zuma and AP

Goldman Sachs CEO Lloyd Blankfein got (c.) sweet deal from Mayor Bloomberg (l.) and George Pataki.


New Yorkers are on the hook to hand over $321 million to Goldman Sachs, America's richest investment bank, because reconstruction of the World Trade Center has fallen way behind schedule.

Under the hidden terms of a deal that then-Gov. George Pataki and Mayor Bloomberg approved in 2005, the city and state agreed to pay huge penalties to the firm if major portions of Ground Zero redevelopment weren't complete by next year, a target now considered impossible to meet.

Goldman wanted speedy construction because the Wall Street giant is building its own $2.4 billion tower across from the site on West St.

Now, Goldman could snare 64 years of free rent worth $161 million that it's supposed to pay for leasing the state land. Goldman could also recoup an additional $160 million in sales tax payments.

The sweetheart deal okayed by Bloomberg and Pataki also provided $1.65 billion in tax-free

Liberty Bonds and a $115 million incentive package. At the time, the bank was threatening to decamp to New Jersey.

In return for constructing its 43-story office building for 9,000 employees, Goldman. was allowed to put $161 million it owed in rent and $160 million in sales taxes into escrow accounts, documents show. Albany and City Hall agreed that Goldman could keep its cash if two conditions were not met:

* Specific blockbuster transit-and-security projects on the Trade Center footprint had to be finished by the end of next year, when Goldman's tower will be finished. Officials concede that's not going to happen - and that the projects are years behind schedule.

* A comprehensive security plan for downtown had to be "implemented" before 2010. That counterterrorist plan can't be fully "implemented," as the deal requires, until the structures at Ground Zero are in place.

The bottom line: The $321 million bonanza in tax and lease payments could soon revert to the Wall Street powerhouse, which piled up $11.6 billion in profits last year.

Goldman spokeswoman Andrea Raphael declined to comment, but in a Securities and Exchange Commission filing four months ago, the firm made note of the escrow deal and implied it could be pocketing the ground-lease payments.

"Under the terms of the ground lease, we made a lump-sum ground rent payment in June 2007 of $161 million, which was paid into escrow, to be released to the Battery Park City Authority pending performance of specified state and city obligations," it said.

State officials wouldn't discuss specifics - even though the document they refused to discuss can be found on the SEC Web site. City officials think they're off the hook.

"The city is on track to provide a comprehensive security plan for lower Manhattan by the end of 2009 as required by the agreement, and we are working with the Port Authority and Lower Manhattan Development Corp. to help them meet the other deadlines," said Deputy Mayor for Economic. Development Robert. Lieber.

Lawyers are likely to argue this point: How can a security plan for Ground Zero. be "implemented" by 2010 if none of the iconic buildings at the site are wrapped up by that time?

Sources close to the deal said only that the state and city are in preliminary talks with Goldman to win a bit of flexibility.

"The state and Goldman Sachs have and continue to have productive conversations on ensuring that downtown is rebuilt in a manner that is fair to both workers and residents and, of course, all taxpayers," said Avi Schick, chairman of the LMDC.

Among the projects supposed to see ribbon cuttings by 2010:

* The Transportation Hub: With its soaring wings designed to resemble a bird in flight, the PATH terminal was originally planned to open in 2006. A new report says there's less than a 5% chance of the hub being complete before July 2012.

* The Vehicular Security Center under Liberty St.: A centerpiece of security operations, this is the planned $478 million subterranean complex through which delivery trucks and buses will access the 16-acre site. Construction of the high-tech security checkpoint can't even start until the toxic former Deutsche Bank tower above it is finally demolished. The latest estimated opening date is 2011 or 2012.

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Old May 13th, 2008, 08:23 AM   #4554
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Ok the ESB is the greatest skyscraper every built. I'm sure someone going to try to break it's long stand record as the fast skyscraper every built. look all I'm saying is this building will be done when it's done. I mean ten years after 9/11 is a long time, but at less their working on fixing it. And with some of the other supertalls being built in the city NY will be greater then ever.
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Old May 13th, 2008, 09:20 AM   #4555
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Even though it won't be done in a few months, by then no one save the haters and severely mentally challenged will be whining about it because kids need as much eye candy as possible, which is exactly what we'll be seeing a major increase of soon, not as if it has been going slow or is behind schedule. I'm shocked because the below grade parts are coming together faster than even I expected; you can see different parts of the floors poured or created every week, and if not, they're jacking up the core or erecting more rebarb. The other towers' plots will be active like they were at FT a little after it started and Tower 2 could start up in under a month. It only leaves WTC Tower 5 out of the picture for now and whatever they plan to erect on the plot (same plot size as 7WTC) next to the Freedom Tower. Twin 7WTC's would be funny to see.

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Old May 13th, 2008, 02:55 PM   #4556
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Old May 13th, 2008, 06:37 PM   #4557
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they're pouring concrete again !!! this time on the north east corner of freedom tower.
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Old May 13th, 2008, 06:41 PM   #4558
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The concrete pouring device (somebody correct me) was there from around 6:45 am at New York City time until now. It doesn't mean its been pouring all this time does it?
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Old May 13th, 2008, 06:49 PM   #4559
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when they pour something ( for example a new floor ) they've to pour all in one action
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Old May 13th, 2008, 06:53 PM   #4560
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The arm of the concrete pumper will only extend for two reasons:

1) It is pouring concrete (you will see concrete trucks line up behind it usually)
2) They are performing maintanence.

In this case they have been pouring continously since 6:45AM
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