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Old August 8th, 2013, 11:21 AM   #49181
Zaanstad_1987
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Nice how the tower has developed the last months. Since the guywires were installed and the temporary platforms have removed I'd like the spire a lot more. It looks tighter and with the wires more as a whole.

Another question; are there any photos or developments around the interior progress? Or aren't they started with that?
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Old August 8th, 2013, 04:54 PM   #49182
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Cover up that iron naked spire !!
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Old August 8th, 2013, 05:29 PM   #49183
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jay View Post
It was, they just made up the other stuff as an excuse.
Which is why you see radomes like that being built everywhere else, right?
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Old August 8th, 2013, 05:37 PM   #49184
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I still don't buy that argument. Why would the entire design team sign off on that spire knowing that it would be difficult to maintain? That kind of issue doesn't just pop up at the end of the development process. Durst made the decision, and he had the explicit $ motivation for doing so.
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Old August 8th, 2013, 05:43 PM   #49185
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The same people designed the old base that had the dangerous glass.
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Old August 8th, 2013, 05:48 PM   #49186
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Just to make something clear. When you guys are saying cleaning is the problem it sounds like it is something impossible to do. It's not. It is possible to cover it and it is possible to clean it. And it's not even problem to finance that covering. The real problem is to finance the cleaning. It would be process which has to be done often, with special tools on special ways. All that would cost a lot of money. And this is the point where it's cheaper to go without the covering.
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Old August 8th, 2013, 06:07 PM   #49187
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Quote:
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The same people designed the old base that had the dangerous glass.
SOM is the most prestigious and innovative architectural and engineering firm in the World.
They were designing buildings when Durst was not even born....
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Old August 8th, 2013, 06:21 PM   #49188
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I doubt David Childs was designing before Douglas Durst was born
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Old August 8th, 2013, 07:07 PM   #49189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joshua Dodd View Post
If cleaning the radome would have been such a logistical nightmare, then I guess cleaning the outside panels of glass on surrounding the beacon will be a hell of a nightmare and logistical issue at 1776 feet in the air
Are you really comparing cleaning one little section of the spire that they will probably do once in a while over having the entire 400 + foot structure covered in a white radome being cleaned top to bottom? Common sense dude, and I didn't say that was a logistic issue, the logisitic issue would be if they ever had to replace the panels, would be extremely difficult to coordinate with all the shit that's up on the roof. Cleaning the radome just would have been an extreme pain in the ass and probably really costly.
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Old August 8th, 2013, 07:39 PM   #49190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThatOneGuy View Post
The same people designed the old base that had the dangerous glass.
That was another financial issue. The glass could have been manufactured to spec, but at a much greater cost than originally anticipated.
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Old August 8th, 2013, 08:04 PM   #49191
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It is a FACT and truth is stubborn that Durst has a percentage on every dollar he saves.
It is not my invention;there were articles in the NY Times.
I personnaly don't care about the radom but just think the original podium and one wtc plaza were way nicer.
To move forward in the discution,we have to accept iturst is a great money maker not an esthete.
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Old August 8th, 2013, 08:09 PM   #49192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StrongIsland View Post
Uh no. You clearly don't realize how hard maintenance would be for it. The logistics are just impossible with how little room there is up there to begin with and just think of the headache it would be to replace broken panels or whatever, and keeping it clean and white...forget about that I know I wouldn't want to climb a spire 1,776 feet in the air just to clean it, and feel safe. Yeah money played a role but so did common sense and that radome wouldn't have worked. They definetly could have came up with an alternative but it is what it is.
I am convinced it was purely an economic issue.

The fact that this thing is high in the air is irrelevant. There are thousands of spires in the world and it is obviously possible to engineer spires to be maintainable. The only question is how much money is it worth to have a clad spire?

A proposal off the top of my head...

A ring shaped scaffold that is stored at the base of the spire. When it is needed, cables are lowered automatically from the top and hooked to the scaffold. It is then hoisted just like any other cladding cleaning rig as seen on thousands of sky scrapers across the globe. Window cleaning rigs are already quite sophisticated when dealing with buildings with irregular facades.

[edit: the guy wire connections pose a problem but that too is solvable. Maybe a complete ring isn't needed at all.]

This is quite obviously a solvable engineering task. It is in fact mind bogglingly easy as compared to the overall project. Cable hoisted cleaning scaffolds are a well understood technology.

In the end, it just came down to money. The spire was extremely expensive for a purely aesthetic element.
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Old August 8th, 2013, 10:17 PM   #49193
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Eh it's honestly whatever I'm done arguing about something that is 99.9% NEVER going to change. Back on topic, I'm wondering why they have yet to install the boom for the crane atop the ring, they brought it up a few days ago and it's up there waiting...
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Old August 9th, 2013, 12:19 AM   #49194
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StrongIsland View Post
Uh no. You clearly don't realize how hard maintenance would be for it. The logistics are just impossible with how little room there is up there to begin with and just think of the headache it would be to replace broken panels or whatever, and keeping it clean and white...forget about that I know I wouldn't want to climb a spire 1,776 feet in the air just to clean it, and feel safe. Yeah money played a role but so did common sense and that radome wouldn't have worked. They definetly could have came up with an alternative but it is what it is.
SOM had designed that spire years before, they knew what they were doing, I don't buy the whole "It would take too much effort to maintain" thing for a second.
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Old August 9th, 2013, 12:27 AM   #49195
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I don't know any other such radome, especially 1776 feet up, to compare easiness of maintenance with.
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Old August 9th, 2013, 12:53 AM   #49196
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We've been over this before on this site and elsewhere. Durst is all about the money. I can only hope that the spire is the worst he will do to the building. He was against the new WTC, and even took out a full page bulletin in the NYT in 2007 before he got his greedy hooks into the site. Look at him complain about redesigns to 1 WTC, only to buy a stake in it and trash the design even more. He even complains about hasty design.




Quote:
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I don't know any other such radome, especially 1776 feet up, to compare easiness of maintenance with.
There's a thing called the CN Tower in Toronto. The spire is less ornamental, yes, but somehow they manage. Just like they do with radomes in Chicago.
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Old August 9th, 2013, 01:21 AM   #49197
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Old August 9th, 2013, 02:16 AM   #49198
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- deleted: needs source + link
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Old August 9th, 2013, 02:18 AM   #49199
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That base of the 1WTC is still incomplete (almost complete?)?
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Old August 9th, 2013, 03:29 AM   #49200
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image hosted on flickr

The brighter section of the mast under the beacon is driving me nuts... I'm sure it will tarnish and will be less noticeable. I just think how nice it would look if the other sections were that way.
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