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Old November 9th, 2013, 08:39 AM   #51541
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Old November 9th, 2013, 08:56 AM   #51542
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It would be tough to argue against the mast not being an "architectural element". The lights seal the deal for me.
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Old November 9th, 2013, 09:33 AM   #51543
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Found a new spot…in my opinion the best and most complete uninterrupted view of Manhattan from Long Island about 25-30 miles away. Sorry for the quality…it's taken with an iPhone 4. If a good camera was used, this would be very clear. It looks way clearer to the naked eye than in this picture! To the left is downtown as seen by the WTC anchoring it and to the right is midtown as seen by the ESB anchoring it. This was from about 150 feet up or so.

[IMG]http://i41.************/245k09j.jpg[/IMG]
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Old November 9th, 2013, 09:46 AM   #51544
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Old November 9th, 2013, 10:15 AM   #51545
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Sure, lighting on the spire will be a part of New York from now on...nothing stands still in this world let alone New York ! Trust me...I am a individual of the Universe, no less than the Moon or the Stars...that's good enough for me, hang on I'll go outside right now and see if I can see the top ? ...bad choice...for me anyhow...
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Old November 9th, 2013, 01:52 PM   #51546
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYdude View Post
I saw it driving on RT 17 in Ramsey, NJ on that hill, and it was awesome! So bright!
Yeah, from that hill on RT 17 there is a really cool view of the skyline. For a few seconds at least heading south. Too bad I never drive there at night...
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Old November 9th, 2013, 04:42 PM   #51547
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xoltage View Post
Dalek in the foreground checking out 1wtc. That can't be good.
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Old November 9th, 2013, 05:19 PM   #51548
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I really hope the beacon is on tonight
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Old November 9th, 2013, 05:56 PM   #51549
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Quote:
Originally Posted by adam.dworzak View Post
Yeah, from that hill on RT 17 there is a really cool view of the skyline. For a few seconds at least heading south. Too bad I never drive there at night...
Yes, it's awesome. You can see the Empire State Building right in front of you! then off to you right is 1WTC. Can't wait to see that view again in several years
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Old November 9th, 2013, 06:07 PM   #51550
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The spire lighting looks so delicious. I love it.
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Old November 9th, 2013, 06:27 PM   #51551
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Every single day my drive to work is on the Ocean Parkway (LI) where you can start to see the WTC come into focus about 40 miles away and really becomes quite obvious 30 miles away. I can't wait to see the view now with the spire lit! In fact, on clear days the sun reflects off the buildings in midtown and actually blinds me a bit 30 miles away! LOL! That's how amazing this skyline is and gives you an idea of just how big.

The place I took the picture from closes at 4 PM so I'm not sure if I can get in there at night to take a skyline picture and capture it all lit up 25 miles away but I'll try! Does anyone know if it will be lit tonight? If so I may go to Ocean Parkway and pull over to try and get a good shot.
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Old November 9th, 2013, 06:39 PM   #51552
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Here are the rules of CTBUH to detremine the height of the building
http://www.ctbuh.org/TallBuildings/H...S/Default.aspx

Quote:
1. Height to Architectural Top
Height is measured from the level1 of the lowest, significant,2 open-air,3 pedestrian4 entrance to the architectural top of the building, including spires, but not including antennae, signage, flag poles or other functional-technical equipment.5 This measurement is the most widely utilized and is employed to define the Council on Tall Buildings and Urban Habitat rankings of the "World's Tallest Buildings."
Quote:
5 Functional-technical equipment: this is intended to recognize that functional-technical equipment is subject to removal/addition/change as per prevalent technologies, as is often seen in tall buildings (e.g., antennae, signage, wind turbines, etc. are periodically added, shortened, lengthened, removed and/or replaced).
The foot note number 5 I think is the key to think that this should be considered an spire, according to the CTBUH rules.
When they say that they do not considerate antennae as a part of the building is not just because of its function, It is not that if it has transmiting devices it is an antenna and then it is not part of the building.
What they clearly want to recognize with that is that, most of the times, antennas design respond purely to their technichal specification as transmitting devices they will be shortened, lenghtend or modified in any form just based in the neccesities as transmitting devices.
This case is different, although it is true that it will serve as a mast to hold antennas, it is also true that it was planned from the begining as an architectural feature of the building. Its height for instance, was not determined attending to the technical criteria to serve as an antenna, but to a more arbitrary criteria such as to make it the same height in feet as the year of the US independence, and put a beacon at that height to make it more symbolical. And that height is clearly fixed, it won't change in the future, as it could happen with the antenna atop the Sears Tower, this one was designed specifically to be 1776 ft tall, as an architectural criterion, not as a technical one, that could vary with time as technical neccesities vary. An antenna buid purely with technical criteria, is susceptible to change over the time, this one deigned with architectural criteria in mind, won't, and that is important to the CTBUH, so, it could be considered as an spire.

If it is a way of cheating, it could be, but that would be a different discussion. In buildings like Chrysler, Burj Khalifa or even Petronas, it is impossible not to measure it to the very tip of the spire, in the case of this building, BoFA, NYT or Trump Chicago is clearly different, but I guess it is pretty hard to draw a line that determines when a spire is not longer considered as such just for the visual aspect of it.
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Last edited by CCs77; November 9th, 2013 at 06:51 PM.
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Old November 9th, 2013, 06:48 PM   #51553
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But it certainly is possible to alter its height in the future just as it is possible with the antennas of the Willis Tower. We can't say that "this will never happen", the future might bring many unexpected decisions. For example if one day, in a few decades the spantenna (as I neutraly call it) could be extended if its current height wouldn't be anymore enough to fully perform the full extend of its broadcasting duties. i'm not saying this will happen but I'm saying this can happen and therefore I think that the future height change point isn't appliable in this decision
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Old November 9th, 2013, 06:51 PM   #51554
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The key factor isn't so much height alteration (ie adding an antenna) so much as it is removal and replacement. I'm pretty sure you wouldn't be able to do that because you'd need to remove the beacon first to extend the mast, and i'm pretty sure the pieces of the mast are bolted down and welded together.
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Old November 9th, 2013, 06:54 PM   #51555
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Not to mention going through all the trouble of lifting up another crane.....

Can't wait until this non-sense is all done with, because some of the claims on these forums are laughable.
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Old November 9th, 2013, 06:55 PM   #51556
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But what if they would dissasemble some sections of the current spantenna and then reconstruct it with a new version of it, a version compatible with an increased height?
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Old November 9th, 2013, 06:57 PM   #51557
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanto View Post
But what if they would dissasemble some sections of the current spantenna and then reconstruct it with a new version of it, a version compatible with an increased height?
then by CTBUH's standards, it would be an antenna. But the question is can they do it
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Old November 9th, 2013, 07:42 PM   #51558
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this is NOT an antenna because it has no communication equipment and it was ment to be a spire
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Old November 9th, 2013, 08:19 PM   #51559
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It looked so amazing lit up in the red, white and blue.
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Old November 9th, 2013, 08:25 PM   #51560
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11.07.13
Day & Night...sorry no tripod











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