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Old November 13th, 2013, 05:14 PM   #51841
NanoMini
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Would the tower be better if it was installed glasses around circular block on the top? Maybe it will be finished in next year.

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Old November 13th, 2013, 06:03 PM   #51842
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patrykus View Post
Other towers with spire weren't devoid of an architectural element so why would you like to re-arrange them?
because obviously architectural element is not the ONLY deciding factor. As per their guidelines, The counsel ruled that the spire is part of the structure architecturally with or without the radome citing "permanence". Apparently that met their guidelines weather you accept it or not.

They had stated their organization's motto time and time again. That the CTBUH measures how tall a man can build structurally. Things that can be added on and removed should not be counted.

They have formula's that they use that even consider if a structure should be considered a building or just a plain structure. WTC is certainly classified as a building and its spire is certainly counted as the official height as per guidelines.

The WTC spire is not something that can be REMOVED. It really is simple to me even b4 the decision was made and that was the conclusion I had made as well.

People will never accept the outcomes that they disagree with.. that is part of human nature regardless. No one will ever be happy and you can never make everyone happy. The decision was made and it was made official. #fact

So the answer to your question... Yes they all should be changed if WTC spire was not counted.
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Old November 13th, 2013, 06:08 PM   #51843
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MattSal View Post

In a sense, Vanity Height can be translated quite literally as "bullshit-height".
I would not have any problem of the vanity height. All that does really is identify the Towers that are the big offenders. It would not change their height in the overall rankings.
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Old November 13th, 2013, 06:26 PM   #51844
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ESB & WTC


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Old November 13th, 2013, 07:02 PM   #51845
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vertical_Gotham View Post
because obviously architectural element is not the ONLY deciding factor. As per their guidelines, The counsel ruled that the spire is part of the structure architecturally with or without the radome citing "permanence". Apparently that met their guidelines weather you accept it or not.

They had stated their organization's motto time and time again. That the CTBUH measures how tall a man can build structurally. Things that can be added on and removed should not be counted.

They have formula's that they use that even consider if a structure should be considered a building or just a plain structure. WTC is certainly classified as a building and its spire is certainly counted as the official height as per guidelines.

The WTC spire is not something that can be REMOVED. It really is simple to me even b4 the decision was made and that was the conclusion I had made as well.

People will never accept the outcomes that they disagree with.. that is part of human nature regardless. No one will ever be happy and you can never make everyone happy. The decision was made and it was made official. #fact

So the answer to your question... Yes they all should be changed if WTC spire was not counted.
That doesn't answer my question by anyway I see you are getting quite emotional about it so I'll pass. It's not like I care that much how it is officially measured I just find it interesting to discuss. I think the council could either count the spire in (because the top architectural element in the tower is the tip of the mast) or they could not (because the architecture elements of the tower and the tip of the mast are not continuous - there is bare structure in between) so both in a way would meet ctbuh criteria. Of course they choose what was expected from them and I'm not surprised at all. But anyway I think you are wrong if you think the architectural aspect is not the most important one (after all IT IS the architectural height - not symbolic one ), other wise, as I said before they would scrap the cladding from the top of the mast altogether but as we know for some reason they left it there. Makes you thinking doesn't it?
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Old November 13th, 2013, 07:22 PM   #51846
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I think this'll be very bright when it's finished.
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Old November 13th, 2013, 07:37 PM   #51847
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The pics of the interior. She really is beautiful inside and out. (ʃƪᵔ_ᵔ)
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Old November 13th, 2013, 07:47 PM   #51848
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patrykus View Post
That doesn't answer my question by anyway I see you are getting quite emotional about it so I'll pass. It's not like I care that much how it is officially measured I just find it interesting to discuss.

But anyway I think you are wrong if you think the architectural aspect is not the most important one (after all IT IS the architectural height - not symbolic one ),

You ask me a question and I answered it didn’t I? I’m a bit confused.. I will explain once again and I promise I will spare everyone on this thread about it after this.

I will explain it again clearly and break it down for you so you can understand my point.

Quote:
Original Posted by patrykus
Other towers with spire weren't devoid of an architectural element so why would you like to re-arrange them?

Q “Other towers with spire weren't devoid of an architectural element”

Architectural element such as a Radome is not the ONLY deciding factor.

The counsel ruled that the spire is part of the structure architecturally with or without the radome citing "permanence"

Q “so why would you like to re-arrange them?”

Architectural element such as a Radom is only one of the factors to consider. The other factor is Permanence. Obviously, for example, the counsel approved the spire in the Trump Chicago because it had fulfilled 2 items on the list. (There are more criteria’s but I will not go through it)

1) Spire part of the structure architecturally as it is permanent
2) It has a Radom covering.

That’s great it fulfilled 2 criteria’s, but it doesn’t mean all the criteria’s had to be met for it to be considered a spire. Just one is good enough to meet requirement and in WTC’s case it met #1. Apparently THAT is good enough. Is that something hard to understand and grasp??

You say you think I’m wrong that I think the architectural aspect is not the most important one… I say it doesn’t matter because it was not important enough with CTBUH. Again the question was posed.. Is that needle considered part of the tower architecturally?? Their answer is a resounding YES as the spire is part of the design and it is a permanent structure.

So based on this reasoning… Yes I would re-arrange them if WTC spire was not counted.

BTW, I am not emotional about it. it’s quite enjoyable really to try to get through some of your thick skulls.

:Cheers:
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Old November 13th, 2013, 07:58 PM   #51849
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I wonder if this decision will affect future architectural designs for Cities that want mega tall buildings. It seems a relatively easy/cheap way of MASSIVELY increasing the height of a structure.
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Old November 13th, 2013, 08:06 PM   #51850
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vertical_Gotham View Post
Great photo! Love the new lighting on the top of the ESB. IMO, the ESB's antenna should be counted in the height too, it kinda developed into an "architectural element" of the building as well. At least that's what I believe, I mean I can't imagine the ESB without its antenna on top, the building's top would look rather weird and bulky without it (same goes to Sears Tower as well). The antenna contributes perfectly to the tapering of the building!
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Old November 13th, 2013, 08:17 PM   #51851
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Empire State Building doesn't need any extra height. It's perfection.

It's spire and antenna are - architecturally speaking - in a different league than 1WTCs. Even in that photo, with the two buildings side by side, the ESB just looks better in every regard. The pinnacle is earned by the gradual tapering, and the entire structure has a balance to its shape.

I think 1WTC will look significantly better, and more proportioned, when dishes start getting attacked to the spire and its donut. At the moment it looks to thin, too much like a framework. When there's bulk on it, the weight distribution of the building will be more pleasing. Right now, it looks like a hypodermic needle, but with extra stuff on top, it will look more functional and robust.
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Old November 13th, 2013, 08:24 PM   #51852
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very luxurious in future.
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Last edited by NanoMini; November 13th, 2013 at 08:31 PM.
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Old November 13th, 2013, 08:52 PM   #51853
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vertical_Gotham View Post
You ask me a question and I answered it didn’t I? I’m a bit confused.. I will explain once again and I promise I will spare everyone on this thread about it after this.

I will explain it again clearly and break it down for you so you can understand my point.



Q “Other towers with spire weren't devoid of an architectural element”

Architectural element such as a Radome is not the ONLY deciding factor.

The counsel ruled that the spire is part of the structure architecturally with or without the radome citing "permanence"

Q “so why would you like to re-arrange them?”

Architectural element such as a Radom is only one of the factors to consider. The other factor is Permanence. Obviously, for example, the counsel approved the spire in the Trump Chicago because it had fulfilled 2 items on the list. (There are more criteria’s but I will not go through it)

1) Spire part of the structure architecturally as it is permanent
2) It has a Radom covering.

That’s great it fulfilled 2 criteria’s, but it doesn’t mean all the criteria’s had to be met for it to be considered a spire. Just one is good enough to meet requirement and in WTC’s case it met #1. Apparently THAT is good enough. Is that something hard to understand and grasp??

You say you think I’m wrong that I think the architectural aspect is not the most important one… I say it doesn’t matter because it was not important enough with CTBUH. Again the question was posed.. Is that needle considered part of the tower architecturally?? Their answer is a resounding YES as the spire is part of the design and it is a permanent structure.

So based on this reasoning… Yes I would re-arrange them if WTC spire was not counted.

BTW, I am not emotional about it. it’s quite enjoyable really to try to get through some of your thick skulls.

:Cheers:
You didn't answer my question because I didn't ask why the spire of 1wtc should be counted but why would height of all other towers with spires should be reduced in case the 1wtc spire wasn't counted. After all the towers with spires meets both criteria. Their spires are permanent and are architectural because build according to design. The case of 1wtc however is precedent because its spire doesn't meet architectural requirement all the way up hence if it was ruled out I could not see any reason to alter height of other buildings because they meet all the requirements while 1wtc case is obviously questionable. As you said it was a matter of ctbuh interpretation. And that interpretation could be different if not pressed by the public opinion and construction industry. It's enough to say two ctbuh members expressed in this thread that they strongly disagree with the ruling.
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Old November 13th, 2013, 09:53 PM   #51854
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very luxurious in future.
Just so you all know, this is not what the final product will look like. Most of the upper floors are not office but mechanical, and will be lit with LEDs.
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Old November 13th, 2013, 10:07 PM   #51855
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I just hope that there will be LEDs on the roof too so that the main geometric features of the building are visible at night
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Old November 13th, 2013, 10:09 PM   #51856
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This tower looks absolutely stunning during sunset. Beautiful!
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Old November 13th, 2013, 10:27 PM   #51857
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image hosted on flickr

http://www.flickr.com/photos/rickardowise/10822418645/

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http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/10830807283/

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http://www.flickr.com/photos/divinit...n/photostream/
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Old November 13th, 2013, 10:33 PM   #51858
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93 story tower just announced in Chicago so who knows?
Money will tell..
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Old November 13th, 2013, 10:55 PM   #51859
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EBS & OWTC
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Old November 13th, 2013, 11:08 PM   #51860
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This should be the album art for a metal band!
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