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Old September 7th, 2008, 05:15 PM   #5861
buildmilehightower
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the floor around the core looks so complicated, every inch of the floor is of different materials and colours and ...
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Old September 7th, 2008, 05:28 PM   #5862
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i hate this "its so complicated to build" s*** itīs not more complicated than any other supertall which is uc now......it has a concrete core and will ahve a steel framework around it.....like so many other towers around the world....why do so may overrate the complexity of this construction?
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Old September 7th, 2008, 05:35 PM   #5863
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Buildmilehightower it's not very difficult actually. The floor is completely made out of reinforced concrete. The only difference in the floor is whether the rebar is coated (green) or not. The sections with green rebar will be loading decks for trucks. The sections with standard dark brown rebar will house rooms for MEP, storage and other 'indoor' stuff. The light brown sections are sections with only forms for the to be build floor sections.

sam happy you, the bridge is temporary and will be demolished when the 9W underpass is finished.
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Old September 7th, 2008, 06:51 PM   #5864
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Where does parking go for this? any?
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Old September 7th, 2008, 07:02 PM   #5865
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please stop messing around with the velocity of this project, in the last few weeks there was much progress everywhere over the site..

One question:
Have they stopped working on sundays? Looks like that on the webcam. Does anybody know which times they are working at the moment.
And another question I had for a long time: the big part of the station in the western bathtub, will this be kept as it is and they will just add some steel above it to support the trees etc. that will be planted above it or is it kind of temporary and will be changed during the construction phase?

Thanks for answers!
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Old September 7th, 2008, 07:42 PM   #5866
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when will the floors reach ground height?
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Old September 7th, 2008, 07:42 PM   #5867
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tag_one View Post
Buildmilehightower it's not very difficult actually. The floor is completely made out of reinforced concrete. The only difference in the floor is whether the rebar is coated (green) or not. The sections with green rebar will be loading decks for trucks. The sections with standard dark brown rebar will house rooms for MEP, storage and other 'indoor' stuff. The light brown sections are sections with only forms for the to be build floor sections.

sam happy you, the bridge is temporary and will be demolished when the 9W underpass is finished.
They plan on keeping the original one further down the road, correct? It's neat to see a remnant of the original complex.
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Old September 7th, 2008, 07:48 PM   #5868
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Originally Posted by oli83 View Post
please stop messing around with the velocity of this project, in the last few weeks there was much progress everywhere over the site
i know oli.....especially the last pic shows how much progress they did on FT that it is now also visible from street level and they even began construction on the memorial...
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Old September 7th, 2008, 08:43 PM   #5869
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Quote:
Originally Posted by germantower View Post
i hate this "its so complicated to build" s*** itīs not more complicated than any other supertall which is uc now......it has a concrete core and will ahve a steel framework around it.....like so many other towers around the world....why do so may overrate the complexity of this construction?
No. Because it is being built in the same complex of other 3 supertalls. It is being built over a pre-existing subway line (the only supertall u/c now in the world with this characteristic), something that doesn't help construction (traffic hasn't been interrupted and the structure of the tower needs to be integrated with this pre-existing structure, that was built years ago with different building techniques creating a difficult compatibility system with the structure of the FT). Plus we can ad the construction of the underground/overground construction of the WTC Memorial that is integrated with the construction and system of the FT (that is, water system, power line, electric generators, security systems and other variables). To that we can add the PATH system and the subway station. Furthermore, no other supertall outside of new york has EVER been built over a stone as hard as the one that forms the lower area of manhattan island, one of the hardest rock layer in the world, the hardest a city has ever been built on. To these things, we can add the construction and system integration with the Hydrogen Power Supplier that will be unique in it's complexity and extension (on of the fiew of this size ever build in a city, the only one in the world integrated in a complex system as the WTC).
To all of this, we can add various incidents that have occurred, from the bad concrete of the core that had to be taken away and replenished, to the obvious bureaucratic involvements, since we are talking of the construction of one of the biggest complexes in the world in the center of a financial capital as manhattan, after an attack where 3000 (approximation) people were killed and enormous property was lost: from the insurance companies, to Silverstein, to every other company that had property in the wtc and lost it during the attack, to the family of the victims and the government.

Now, you can give me an explanation of what YOU affirmed before, and together with PROOF (everything I sayd can be found anywhere on the internet), we might consider what you said. Because as of now, your opinion has no weight at all.
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Old September 7th, 2008, 09:27 PM   #5870
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@ romanamerican!

Fisrt of all the other two supertalls plus WTC4 have their own foundations their own so called "bath tube" and so on.....so they are seperated from FTīs site.......and will be build by Silverstein and not the PA!

Do you think the electricity power and water stuff was less complicated on a project like the Palm Jumeirah in Dubai or other construstions worldwide with a much bigger scale?

Have you ever heard somwething about Bostonīs "big dig" project? They had to deal with more than three subway lines!

But the thing with building over a subway line is tricky in this point i totally agree with you.

The memorial seems to be separated from the FT through the big wall we can see on every picture....so this two constructions are also separated from each other....

The subway station will be linked to the FT but it isnīt under construction yet......so this canīt have an impact on FTīs construction

To the hardest stone thing the workers from Goldman Sachs HQ have also managed to work with this hard stone, plus at the FT site they even didn’t need to dig the stone out for the foundation they just removed the debris from the former WTC 6 building, and the hole was there, and every other project has also to deal with this stone layer not only the FT!

The bad concrete has nothing to do with the complexity it just shows how they care about what they are doing there and how they execute their work.

The bureaucratic involvements is the thing why this construction has slows down so much every one wants to have his portion of the cake to many people are involved in this project, Silverstein alone would execute it much faster and every months they nee more increase the costs of this project.

There are much bigger complexes under constructions right now look at Dubaiīs Burj Duabi complex 500 acres big…..

The lost people are a big issue but what should the owners of those 16 acres do? Let the victims families do what they want with this site, imo the families were too much involved into this project…….i mean if I had lost someone there I wouldn’t care about what they build there even if they only plant trees there my family member has gone…no memorial can bring the deaths back……I mean this isnīt a grave…..
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Last edited by germantower; September 7th, 2008 at 10:29 PM.
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Old September 7th, 2008, 10:33 PM   #5871
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Fisrt of all the other two supertalls plus WTC4 have their own foundations their own so called "bath tube" and so on.....so they are seperated from FTīs site.......and will be build by Silverstein and not the PA!
That is not what I was aiming to: the fact that is being built with other 3 supertalls has implications that go far from bureaucracy. Every construction has a vital area that is needed to operate: from the storage of material to the temporary offices to the area dedicated to trucks, workers and organization. The wtc site is a "whole" in the sense that every skyscraper needs to organize this vital space with the others, in the middle of manhattan (the environment in which your working area is, is extremely important: working in the middle of a 13 million people usage area (manhattan) is different from working in the middle of the desert (dubai). The logistics for the coordination will be far more complicated, any time of the day.

Quote:
Do you think the electricity power and water stuff was less complicated on a project like the Palm Jumeirah in Dubai or other construstions worldwide with a much bigger scale?
Yes. the area where Palm Jumeirah in Dubai is being built is empty. That is, under the earth (the earth under the sea or the one created for the project) is "empty" in the sense that there is no human artifact. It is virgin. New York city has finished that space. Literally. There is absolutely no space left. With the density of the skyscrapers (with the foundations of New York skyscrapers going to (and in ) the bedrock. The space left between the foundations has been totally occupied by the subway lines, sewer lines, steam tunnels and every other underground service system (a part from few areas, like where line 7 is being built). This is a problem that had to be looked into also with the project of the new subway, where engineers had to (and still are ) think about a tunnel system that would go directly in the rock, under the foundations of the skyscrapers, at least more than 100 feet under the surface.
Building the FT is different from building the Twin Towers. The systems used are going to be different (different technology) and the system they are building has to be integrated with the city system that is in the situation I described above. Therefore, it is extremely different and far more complicated to build than any other part in the world. (New York city is the only city in the world that has finished its vital underground space).
So to answer to your question: yes, it is more difficult. Just ask the PA for explanations, there should be happy to answer you (if you can go directly to the offices in New York it would be better).

Quote:
The thing with the subway line is tricky in this point i totally agree with you.
and only this is a reason for "more time".

Quote:
The memorial seems to be separated from the FT through the big wall we can see on every picture....so this two constructions are also separated from each other....
A wall does not separate two constructions. the WTC site is one construction site, and will have all the complications I described above.

Quote:
The subway station will be linked to the FT but it isnīt under construction yet......
The connection to the HUB has already started construction. The archway pictures should be available in the past 10 -20 pages of this thread.

Quote:
To the hardest stone thing the workers from Goldman Sachs HQ have also managed to work with this hard stone, plus at the FT site they even didn’t need to dig the stone out for the foundation they just removed the debris from the former WTC 6 building, and the hole was there, and every other project has also to deal with this stone layer not only the FT!
I thought some things were obvious, but apparently they weren't. sorry.
Apart from the fact that the foundations of GS took an extremely long time to build, the foundations for FT are obviously different. So were the TT foundations. The FT is deeper into the bedrock, therefore, no, it wasn't enough to just "clean up". They had to use dynamite to dig deeper, so it wasn't as simple as you described it. far from it.

[QUOTE]The bad concrete has nothing to do with the complexity it just shows how they care about what they are doing there and how they execute their work.[/QUTE]
True. I started to put also the causes of the "quantity of time" it took to build it, since apparently it is so easy to show someone's ignorance with certain exclamations (such as" it is taking way too long...").


Quote:
The bureaucratic involvements is the thing why this construction has slows down so much every one wants to have his portion of the cake to many people are involved in this project, Silverstein alone would execute it much faster and every months they nee more increase the costs of this project.
As I explained, it is ONE of the reasons, not the only one. And the bureaucracy of this project is also unique for obvious reasons. And it is not a reason of less importance that any other variable in the construction of a building. Simplification is a mistake that too many people do on this forum and it is too stupid to repeat it again and again.

Quote:
There are much bigger complexes under constructions right now look at Dubaiīs Burj Duabi complex 500 acres big…..
In fact I said "one of the biggest", not "the biggest".

Quote:
The lost people are a big issue but what should the owners of those 16 acres do? Let the victims families do what they want with this site, imo the families were too much involved into this project…….i mean if I had lost someone there I wouldn’t care about what they build there even if they only plant trees there my family member has gone…no memorial can bring the deaths back……I mean this isnīt a grave…..
In your opinion? Have you lost someone you loved on 9/11? have you ever lost someone you cared about in a terroristic attack? In this one? If not, I doubt you can understand what those people have gone through, and our opinion has no foundations whatsoever.
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Old September 7th, 2008, 11:15 PM   #5872
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Yes of course but all other projects have similar logistics when not the same logistics (but at a smaller scale) as this tower. I don’t think the logistics at BOFA e.g. where less complicated than the logistics on this construction site…..also 7WTC had to deal with this……

To the points of the underground infrastructure you mentioned some of your points haven’t a real impact to the FT! Also in the time of the former WTC they used surely newer technologies at the WTC than as those technologies that already existed….

They laid the cornerstone of the FT more than 4 years ago the metro lines already existed in this time since the temporary PATH station was opened on November 23rd 2003, but this can’t be a that big factor that they only achieved this progress of FT in more than 4 years….i don’t know what they did in this 4 years there…..and I can’t understand it…yes they did a lot of progress in the past few weeks/moths but in the overall time of 4 years (of pure construction time, the clean up time was no construction time for me) this isn’t much progress….

In my opinion the people that are involved in this project should simplify it…I mean every person more which is involved in this project makes it more complicated (bureaucracy wise) and hinders a fast progress….i saw some documentations on cnn on the show “perspectives” in which family members of victims were angry about the bureaucracy of this project, I will try to find cutting of the documentation I remember one man that also lost relatives and friends there said “I don’t care about what they build I want that this particular area of my city lives again and is vibrant)

NO I haven’t lost family members in a terrorists attack ( to me a war and terroristic attacks are two totally different things) BUT two relatives in the Yugoslavian war,so i can estimate what they are going through and I don’t care if they build hundreds of memorials there, or what they do with the site were they were killed, I know that my uncle and grandpa past by and no memorial or human activity will bring them back…..
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Last edited by germantower; September 7th, 2008 at 11:21 PM.
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Old September 8th, 2008, 12:33 AM   #5873
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I'll be in New York for a few days two weeks from now. I intend to take a few pictures of the WTC site when I'm there. Does anybody have an idea of what a good update spot would be right now?
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Old September 8th, 2008, 02:19 AM   #5874
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I'll be in New York for a few days two weeks from now. I intend to take a few pictures of the WTC site when I'm there. Does anybody have an idea of what a good update spot would be right now?
From Winter Garden (2nd floor) between 2World Financial Center and 3WFC Buildings.
A few days ago I was in the Burguer King in Church St at Liberty St. Also you can take good photos from the 2nd floor.
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Old September 8th, 2008, 06:09 AM   #5875
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Those who think that construction started when the cornerstone was laid are quite misguided.

The laying of the cornerstone was no less a ploy by Governor Pataki to make it seem as though things were moving forward, however it is clear that the design of the building was not even final and that there were some disagreements as to what should be built.

In fact when the cornerstone was laid, the design at the time was of a 2000 foot building (the one with all the wind mills in the crown), not of the one that is currently being built. How can you say construction started 4 years ago when the cornerstone was laid for a completely different design?
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Old September 8th, 2008, 06:40 AM   #5876
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Just goes to show how screwed up New York politics really are! One group is laying a cornerstone before other groups have the agreed on a design. It used to be the cornerstone was laid when the building was completed.

Between politics and unions it's a miracle anything ever gets built in New York City.
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Old September 8th, 2008, 09:28 AM   #5877
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Yeah, I know, thanks. If there is such a great need for strict separation, why not start a thread for each tower to be erected and another one for general discussions about the site? Problem solved. On the other hand, I don't see why that's necessary. Things haven't progressed as much as we all hoped, and 99 percent of those scanning the Freedom Tower thread are without a doubt scanning the WTC2-4 thread anyway.
As far as I'm concerned, anything that goes on anywhere on the site is relevant to the thread. I'd rather read about it all in one place than having to follow several threads!!
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Old September 8th, 2008, 09:28 AM   #5878
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As far as I'm concerned, anything that goes on anywhere on the site is relevant to the thread. I'd rather read about it all in one place than having to follow several threads!!
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Old September 8th, 2008, 11:56 AM   #5879
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As far as I'm concerned, anything that goes on anywhere on the site is relevant to the thread. I'd rather read about it all in one place than having to follow several threads!!
My point exactly.
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Old September 8th, 2008, 09:38 PM   #5880
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You did a good job with the video!
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