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Old December 30th, 2008, 09:11 PM   #7001
adam-albany
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RKOwens View Post
From what I can tell, a lot more steel has gone up today in the north pool. The north and east side of the central "hole" (which the water will fall into) is now defined, and the south side was defined already. Won't be long until we can see the full outline of at least one pool. There IS a webcam which overlooks the site from the west (from the World Financial Center) at rebuildgroundzero.com, which provides a much better view of the memorial and Towers 2-4 sites (its view of the Freedom Tower is kind of crappy though), but it's been down for the past few days.
It just came back up. The difference at the North Pool between when the cam went down and when it came back up is striking:
Quote:
By the way, on CNN yesterday there was a report about the memorial for Flight 93 in Shanksville where they said that they're now trying to have the memorial completed in time for the 10th anniversary (previously they said it wouldn't be completed in time). They only thing holding them up is that the landowner where the plane crashed at is being an unbelievable a$$hole and won't sell the land to the memorial planners for the asking price, and they're asking Bush to seize the land before he leaves office so they can build the memorial. With the Pentagon memorial already open, hopefully all three will be completed in time for the 10th anniversary, which is already long enough.

Is that a render of the proposed Flight 93 memorial? If so, it looks much more impressive than I'd expected.

From what I've been able to gather, United Flight 93 crashed across several people's land, ultimately landing near a farmer's field. The memorial is to be located at the site of the crash. The landowner, Tim Lambert, donated six acres in the immediate vicinity of the crash. The families of the victims used their share of the United 93 grosses to buy an additional 3 acres at the site. An additional 1,000 acres of land around the crash site was acquired by the families as "buffer" soon after. More land deals have followed, each negotiated in good faith with the land owner and resolved amicably to everyone's satisfaction. The largest remaining chunk of land left to be acquired is a 275-acre plot owned by Svonavec Inc, a stone and coal-mining corporation based out of Somerset, PA. This is not a case of Big Brother stepping on a small, humble farmer. Svonavec had used the land for surface mining before September 11. Now, however, the land is used to monetize the crash site, though "donations" to the corporation -- ostensibly to pay for "security" that the National Parks Service says is unnecessary. The compensation being offered by the families would apparently offset the value of the land for surface mining, but not for owning a unique chunk of history that will be a cash cow for years to come. The families of the victims have offered as much as $750,000, but Svonavec only wants to deal with the National Parks Service. And they want the National Parks Service to pay $10 million, or the NPS's total budget for land acquisition.
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Originally Posted by webeagle12 View Post
that camera sucks big time
I like the RGZ cam. It's the most easily accessed wide-angle view of the site, and shows the side that is blocked to the high resolution EarthCam.
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Originally Posted by Msradell View Post
I don't see anything wrong with the owner asking whatever he wants to the property, it's his and he should be able to ask whatever he wants for it. The people wanting it don't have to pay if they don't want to. The government also shouldn't use its power to seize the land. Maybe an acre or two where the main of the plane ended up and an appropriate right of way but the amount of acreage being discussed is totally ridiculous. The owners certainly isn't an A$$hole as you suggest, rather the victims families are for wanting such a large piece of land. If they want this much land than we should have bulldozed all of Manhattan form appropriate memorial there!
Comparing Ground Zero to the Shanksville site is Apples to Oranges. For one thing, the planes that hit the World Trade Center collided with their targets in mid-air, resulting in a very localized crash site. United 93 was a ground collision, carving out a wide arc for the crash site. For another, the two locations exist on opposite sides of the real estate market. Manhattan is the most densely packed real estate market in the country. Rural Somerset County in Pennsylvania is among the least densely packed real estate markets. 2,200 acres in Somerset County is probably worth less than the eight acres the World Trade Center memorial will occupy. And it's not 2,200 acres that are in dispute; all but the 275 acres owned by Svonavec have been acquired by the families and the National Parks Services through amicable bargaining with the previous land owners. Unfortunately, the 275 acres in question are at the heart of the crash site, not on the periphery.
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Old December 30th, 2008, 10:28 PM   #7002
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Quote:
The difference at the North Pool between when the cam went down and when it came back up is striking
Is that supposed to be a joke? I honestly can't tell the difference, except that the snow melted.

Last edited by Skyscraperologist; January 1st, 2009 at 07:26 AM.
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Old December 30th, 2008, 11:40 PM   #7003
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More steel and more decking on the steel. Remember that there was a holiday and a weekend between the two images. Besides with the EC you can clearly see the small hole in the center of the North Tower pit. The area behind the hole (the west side) will be filled with steel by the end of the week. They are already placing the columns for it
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Old December 31st, 2008, 08:20 AM   #7004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RKOwens View Post
Philvia... I stand corrected. After looking further into the design of the memorial, they ARE intending to have it be 2,200 acres in size, which is... completely insane. Wow. I have no idea what they're thinking. The Pentagon memorial is 2 acres in size and the World Trade Center is about 6-8 acres in size. They have only themselves to blame. A more reasonably sized memorial could have begun construction years ago and be done.

I don't know what to say but, wow.

thats why i dont have any pity whatsoever towards them and fully support 100% the private owner who is holding onto his land. i
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Old December 31st, 2008, 09:53 AM   #7005
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how is the owner an *******?
the families of the people who died on board the airplane are *******s.
a hijacked plane goes down and suddenly the surviving family members feel compelled to take privately owned land and turn it into a 2,200 acre memorial.
if they dont get their way, they go crying to bush so that he can forcefully take the land away from the owners.
here is the answer www.zeitgeistmovie.com
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Old December 31st, 2008, 10:16 AM   #7006
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The Memorial site growing fast too
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Old December 31st, 2008, 03:28 PM   #7007
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overnight they poured that huge ass wall next to south core
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Old December 31st, 2008, 04:19 PM   #7008
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Perhaps a bit off-topic but which one is better?
Reflecting Absence without facades or Reflecting Absence with WTC facades:
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Old December 31st, 2008, 04:55 PM   #7009
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Quote:
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Perhaps a bit off-topic but which one is better?
Reflecting Absence without facades or Reflecting Absence with WTC facades:
2nd one looks terrible, looks like jail cell
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Old December 31st, 2008, 05:42 PM   #7010
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I think that it look interesting...But that white one should look more like the red one...
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Old December 31st, 2008, 08:34 PM   #7011
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I like the first one. The pools remind us of what we've lost, but they're a quiet peaceful statement. The second concept paralyzes the scene from 9/12 and feels like a stab in the heart every time you see it.
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Old December 31st, 2008, 08:38 PM   #7012
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I prefer first one. Second one reminds us of horrible moment of 9/11 attacks. It will make a lot of people sad and give them bad flashbacks.
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Old December 31st, 2008, 09:18 PM   #7013
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i thought the one on the left was actually happening?
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Old December 31st, 2008, 09:33 PM   #7014
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of course, the left one is the one to go ahead and the one on the right is very inappropriate in my opinion.
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Old December 31st, 2008, 11:31 PM   #7015
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carlo[NL] View Post
Perhaps a bit off-topic but which one is better?
Reflecting Absence without facades or Reflecting Absence with WTC facades:
Why not build the facades as intact as in opening day, and remind everyone of how the towers once looked? and still have the pools inside?
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Old January 1st, 2009, 12:10 PM   #7016
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good idea, but if they would do it, they woul make it low, or only one pool, so that people still have a good view on the pools, i think...
btw. I think everyone in New York knew the facades of WTC and since 9/11 everyone knows...
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Old January 1st, 2009, 12:46 PM   #7017
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Is not a bad idea, but like "gayscraper" says is not too good to show again something which belong to the past. Almost all the world knew how facade of WTC twin towers looks like... beside pool without any facede to my its better.

Happy New Year
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Old January 1st, 2009, 12:48 PM   #7018
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I think without WTC facades looks better.
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Old January 1st, 2009, 02:09 PM   #7019
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Being as it is 2009, what progress is likely to be made this year? Is it actually going to be rising properly or is it just goin to be another year of snail speed work on the basements and lobby levels?
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Old January 1st, 2009, 02:27 PM   #7020
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I hope, that we will see this thing rise... i hope at least 20 floors or something like that
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