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Old April 14th, 2009, 12:35 AM   #8281
RKOwens
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Any realistic prediction so as to when they are going to finish? There must be a schedule they have to comply with, right?
The only firm date is that the memorial will be open by 9/11/11. Anything other than that is up in the air. Freedom Tower is expected to top out between October-December 2011, opening in late 2013. Also, I was thinking today that it would be cool if they did get a few months ahead of schedule and were able to have the topping out of the Freedom Tower on July 4th, 2011, appropriate for a tower that will be 1776 feet tall.
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Old April 14th, 2009, 01:01 AM   #8282
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The only firm date is that the memorial will be open by 9/11/11. Anything other than that is up in the air. Freedom Tower is expected to top out between October-December 2011, opening in late 2013. Also, I was thinking today that it would be cool if they did get a few months ahead of schedule and were able to have the topping out of the Freedom Tower on July 4th, 2011, appropriate for a tower that will be 1776 feet tall.
Or just have the official opening on July 4th 2012 or 2013 or 2014...or whenever.
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Old April 14th, 2009, 01:36 AM   #8283
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http://www.wtc.com/
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Old April 14th, 2009, 04:58 AM   #8284
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I know when its going to open. When its done
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Old April 14th, 2009, 05:14 AM   #8285
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I know when its going to open. When its done
u r da god


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Old April 14th, 2009, 05:41 AM   #8286
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Ah, this picture brings back memories of my splendid visit to WTC7. Those of you who live in NYC don't realize how lucky you have it, to be able to visit the WTC anytime you want. Also, anyone still complaining about the slow progress, compare this picture to one I took from the same location last September 10th (2008)...

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Old April 14th, 2009, 05:43 AM   #8287
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And I know when it's going to top out: when it tops out... which won't be that long compared to when it will open.
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Old April 14th, 2009, 05:53 AM   #8288
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hi.... I'm italian (from Turin) but I love new york.... then sometimes I visit this thread... I have a question for you.... I already pray you to forgive me for my english and probably for the weakness of my question...

why since 2001 the work is progressing so slowly?...
Your English is not bad

The short answer is "politics." There are many different groups that want different things for the site: many of the families of people who died at the WTC wanted a very large memorial - more than a few wanted the site to remain empty of buildings as a memorial. The owners of the land want to build as much office space as possible to make a profit. Politicians wanted to take credit for arranging deals for impractical designs, sometimes working around democratic processes put in place. Different political factions wanted to make the site into a nationalistic monument, or a center for global peace and understanding. For years different sides spent god-knows-how-many dollars drawing up plans and revising plans to make various groups happy.

It's not like most building sites in the U.S. where all you have to do is make the zoning board happy, pay for permits and get the banks to loan you the money to build a tower. Everyone has their own idea for what they want to see at Ground Zero, and so it's not just a private project - it's a national monument, and a national shame that so many sides fought while the site lay empty for 7 years.

A second, but important answer is "money." The original buildings were insured, and there was a court case about how much the owners would receive. They've had to find enough tenants to lease office space so that the project will make money (and leasing upper-floor space in a terrorist target can be a tricky sale). Concrete and steel prices have been very high for years. And while I'm sure the developer has arranged a line of credit in advance, if the project runs over budget it could be very tricky to get cash to pay for the construction with the banking crisis.
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Old April 14th, 2009, 08:53 AM   #8289
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I don't care how slow its going. I only bitch when its been months and don't see anything. Slow is much better then being on hold. And slow means they're taking their time. And not rushing through, They're working hard to give us the best skyscraper on the planet. Perfection takes time thats all I can really say.
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Old April 14th, 2009, 09:53 AM   #8290
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everyone wants to see the great American construction machine pump out this building at better than China speed... I still havent seen a picture with 100 workers getting things done... its such a shy start... no doubt its going to be amazing once it gets going

i think it would be really sad if this tower isnt ready by september of 2011, 10 years is too long to wait
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Old April 14th, 2009, 10:30 AM   #8291
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everyone wants to see the great American construction machine pump out this building at better than China speed... I still havent seen a picture with 100 workers getting things done... its such a shy start... no doubt its going to be amazing once it gets going

i think it would be really sad if this tower isnt ready by september of 2011, 10 years is too long to wait
It's not going to be ready by 2011, so start being sad ( if you like being sad for so small a reason).
And no, I don't want to see it go as fast as a chinese construction, because it may compromise the construction itself.
And here, I'd like to state my answer to some of the "too slow"ers that infect this forum:
What unit do you use to judge what is "slow" and what is "fast" construction?
Because, without talking about the uniqueness of the site of construction (that has been stated way too many times to discuss about it again) and reasons that could influence it's speed (location, bureaucracy and so on) there is the arrogance of judging other people's work, while the same people that criticize have no competence whatsoever on what they are criticizing.
I'm only a civil engineering student, and even so I wouldn't dream of having the arrogance to accuse an organization (intended as group of individuals and system) of which I know barely nothing about,in the mean time knowing just few of the parameters that may influence ANY construction (let alone this one). Other than that, I wonder what makes you think that the people that are directly linked to the managing of this project (Larry Silverstein first of all) do not desire this tower to be finished as soon as possible (the sooner the tower is completed, the sooner the money can flow back from the investments and the sooner there can be profit in relationship to the lifetime of the structure, for example). Please enlighten me, because I'm curious to know the psychology behind this ( sadly very similar to the psychology behind the believers of the conspiracy theories, but this is not the appropriate place to discuss it).
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Old April 14th, 2009, 10:40 AM   #8292
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At last!!! Some importent progress is now visible!


I hope that the tower will rise some levels soon!
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Old April 14th, 2009, 11:47 AM   #8293
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RKOwens View Post
You mean the more logical story that having a steel building lose over half of its strength (90% in some areas) from fire wasn't enough to cause structural failure, and therefore a team of hundreds of conspirators must have been able sneak in and planted thousands of explosives on every floor, and on the morning of 9/11 not one of 50,000 office workers noticed them and that these were later set off even though not a single camera recorded a single explosion prior to or during the collapse? Yeah, that's the WAY more logical story. Leave now if you're going to start spreading your "9/11 truth" nonsense.



Might this be good news for an outdoor observation deck on the roof???
actually, i was talking about the wtc7...that collapsed at 5pm that day because of "fire and structural damage" suffered from the collapse of the twin towers....but i fail to understand, why would the wtc 7 be the only one that collapses when all the other towers that sorrounded the wtc complex are still up?
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Old April 14th, 2009, 01:18 PM   #8294
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It's kind of strange that they built the Empire State Building in one year but WTC takes almost a decade to even get to first base...

Well, well. Some day it will be done. I hope.
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Old April 14th, 2009, 08:49 PM   #8295
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actually, i was talking about the wtc7...that collapsed at 5pm that day because of "fire and structural damage" suffered from the collapse of the twin towers....but i fail to understand, why would the wtc 7 be the only one that collapses when all the other towers that sorrounded the wtc complex are still up?
A number of reasons. First things first, the final report concluded that the damage suffered from the collapse of WTC1 was negligible and had no effect on the eventual collapse (which was their one of their initial hypotheses). The reason it, and no other tall buildings, collapsed is simple: None of the other buildings CAUGHT ON FIRE. The World Financial Center had some damage, but it didn't catch fire. The Deutsche Bank Building also had damage, but it only caught fire in the basement and this was quickly put out by the FDNY. WTC7's water main was taken out by the collapse of the Twin Towers, so fires that started out small and could have probably been extinguished by sprinklers or fire hoses were allowed to grow out of control, over several hours, eventually becoming what many FDNY chiefs said was the worst building fire they'd ever seen in their entire careers. Also, WTC5's floors that were on fire DID collapse (over 5 floors), but the building was more horizontal so the collapse didn't spread to take out the rest of the building... much like the section of the Pentagon that later collapsed, it didn't take out the rest of the Pentagon. WTC7 was vertical.

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It's kind of strange that they built the Empire State Building in one year but WTC takes almost a decade to even get to first base...
They're not just building an Empire State Building, they're building 5 or 6 of them. They're also building a memorial and transportation hub all on one small site. Plus the ESB was built during the depression, when workers were willing to work under dangerous conditions. Sure, they completed the building faster this way, but it also cost the lives of (I think) about 6 workers.

ETA: Just checked Wikipedia, it was 5 workers that died.

Last edited by RKOwens; April 14th, 2009 at 08:59 PM.
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Old April 15th, 2009, 12:13 AM   #8296
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everyone wants to see the great American construction machine pump out this building at better than China speed... I still havent seen a picture with 100 workers getting things done... its such a shy start... no doubt its going to be amazing once it gets going

i think it would be really sad if this tower isnt ready by september of 2011, 10 years is too long to wait
All I have to say is this tower better be the finest craftsmanship known to man, a work of art, and built strong enough to last 500 years. I don't want to hear about any cracked concrete floors ten years from now...
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Old April 15th, 2009, 03:24 AM   #8297
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Well, it is a good sign to see steelwork finally going up. I assume this is the core? Is this tower going to be constructed of a predominantly steel frame or will it have a concrete core surrounded by a steel super structure?

If it is a concrete core then we are going to wait much longer still as I can't see a slipform structure anywhere on the site. Without a slipform, this is going to take a long time to grow. Steelwork should fly up but this is taking its time still.

As for the design of the building; from the renders I have seen, I am not overly impressed. It has the soar factor and it should look to be of fantastic quality but the actual design is nothing amazing. It's relatively featureless. The memorial looks very nice.
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Old April 15th, 2009, 04:24 AM   #8298
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Well, it is a good sign to see steelwork finally going up. I assume this is the core? Is this tower going to be constructed of a predominantly steel frame or will it have a concrete core surrounded by a steel super structure?
It's going to have a concrete core and both steel and concrete will be used in the superstructure.

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As for the design of the building; from the renders I have seen, I am not overly impressed. It has the soar factor and it should look to be of fantastic quality but the actual design is nothing amazing. It's relatively featureless. The memorial looks very nice.
However, sometimes simple designs turn out to be the most memorable. People said that the Sears Tower was a bunch of boxes when it went up, and today the building is legendary around the world. I think the same thing is (or will be) true for the SWFC. And who can forget 7WTC? That tower is very simple, yet very elegant. The shape of the Freedom Tower is going to reflect light unlike any other supertall you've ever seen. The cladding is also going to be rather unique. Wait and see before passing too much judgment.
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Old April 15th, 2009, 04:49 AM   #8299
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It's going to have a concrete core and both steel and concrete will be used in the superstructure.
Thanks!

Though that has made me a little more worried about how long it will be before we see the core rise!

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However, sometimes simple designs turn out to be the most memorable. People said that the Sears Tower was a bunch of boxes when it went up, and today the building is legendary around the world. I think the same thing is (or will be) true for the SWFC. And who can forget 7WTC? That tower is very simple, yet very elegant. The shape of the Freedom Tower is going to reflect light unlike any other supertall you've ever seen. The cladding is also going to be rather unique. Wait and see before passing too much judgment.
A good post, and I must agree that simple can be memorable. The advantage this tower has over the nameless supertalls in, say, Dubai is the history of the site. People will always remember this as the location of the former World Trade Centers.

I look forward to seeing the tower when it is completed. I said that I was basing my judgement on the renders that I have seen - giving me plenty of scope to change my mind once this is completed.
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Old April 15th, 2009, 06:15 AM   #8300
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Though that has made me a little more worried about how long it will be before we see the core rise!
You and the rest of us, this is not a quick process. The concrete being poured is also the strongest of any project in New York, three times stronger than the city building codes. This adds a lot of additional work to any concrete pour. The steal has gone up relatively quickly, but the concrete pours have seemed like a methodical process. The concrete walls of this tower have a steel structure embedded into them. That's why you see in some of the pictures rebar around a steel column. This is supposed to increase the strength of the concrete.

At least this is going to be a solid building, we hope.

Last edited by Onn; April 15th, 2009 at 06:27 AM.
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