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Old April 18th, 2009, 11:32 PM   #8381
BestJack
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Quote:
Originally Posted by romanamerican View Post
It's not going to be ready by 2011, so start being sad ( if you like being sad for so small a reason).
And no, I don't want to see it go as fast as a chinese construction, because it may compromise the construction itself.
And here, I'd like to state my answer to some of the "too slow"ers that infect this forum:
What unit do you use to judge what is "slow" and what is "fast" construction?
Because, without talking about the uniqueness of the site of construction (that has been stated way too many times to discuss about it again) and reasons that could influence it's speed (location, bureaucracy and so on) there is the arrogance of judging other people's work, while the same people that criticize have no competence whatsoever on what they are criticizing.
I'm only a civil engineering student, and even so I wouldn't dream of having the arrogance to accuse an organization (intended as group of individuals and system) of which I know barely nothing about,in the mean time knowing just few of the parameters that may influence ANY construction (let alone this one). Other than that, I wonder what makes you think that the people that are directly linked to the managing of this project (Larry Silverstein first of all) do not desire this tower to be finished as soon as possible (the sooner the tower is completed, the sooner the money can flow back from the investments and the sooner there can be profit in relationship to the lifetime of the structure, for example). Please enlighten me, because I'm curious to know the psychology behind this ( sadly very similar to the psychology behind the believers of the conspiracy theories, but this is not the appropriate place to discuss it).
Forgive me if I did not answer before. Anyway, it was not my intention to offend anyone's work. I do not think that I was arrogant towards anyone. I was just curious. I do not live there, then I can make myself some questions, but I could not answer me. I did not want to offend anyone.
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Old April 18th, 2009, 11:43 PM   #8382
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Jumping crane

I have a video of the crane jumping:
http://howtodaylooksgroundzero.blogs...ne-jumped.html
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Old April 18th, 2009, 11:52 PM   #8383
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Originally Posted by kenersej View Post
Thats Bull Shit, evenn though i read it on www.wtc.com
i still don't belive it.

But it's not the WHOLE complex there wont be finished according to thhe scources, it's one of the towers, 3 i think.

PLEASE SILVERSTIEN P. AND P.A. BUILT BUILT BUILT!!!!!
Actually, both tower 2 and 3 might be delayed until 2037
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Old April 19th, 2009, 12:20 AM   #8384
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Ooh I wanna go NYC and see this for myself, I went last April but not much has happened...
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Old April 19th, 2009, 12:43 AM   #8385
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Theres no excuse to use the Economic downturn as a reason not to build 2 and 3 WTC now. By the time they are complete (2012/2013), the recession will be long gone. There are already signs of recovery. And with the countless delays for everything to do with the World Trade Center, the towers wouldn't be completed by then anyway. Ridiculous.
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Old April 19th, 2009, 06:24 AM   #8386
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Quote:
Originally Posted by htlgz View Post
I have a video of the crane jumping:
http://howtodaylooksgroundzero.blogs...ne-jumped.html
Awesome!
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Old April 19th, 2009, 11:15 AM   #8387
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They only said they might not be fully leased until 2037. There is a world of difference between being fully occupied and actually built. By all accounts all the buildings would be completed long before that.


Regarding the stairwells again, the new 1WTC will have the huge advantage of having the core stairwells surrounded by steel reinforced concrete whereas the original twins had steel and drywall.
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Old April 19th, 2009, 12:10 PM   #8388
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Although not aware of the actual leasable area of this project, I seriously doubt that it is more than the one in projects built in Chinese cities or the Emirates - even now. Doubting the viability of the project, especially in the context of it being the largest of its kind in the most developed country in the world, as well as the top financial center, is not a good sign, not only for the project itself but also about the belief and confidense of the US to continue its leading role in the world financial affairs.

Even if it would take more than expected in terms of resources, this project should become top priority, for it is a symbol of a city's power to regenerate itself after a disaster even of the size of the one in 911. Having been in this city many times and with the prospect to be there also this summer, I find it unacceptable for comparable projects to be built in numbers in known or unknown Chinese cities, many being former villages 20 years ago, and for NY or Chicago to not be able to compete against them.

Sometimes the vision becomes the moving power which will create new realities. Financial projections are good as long as they project current trends. The dynamics of such a project though go beyond numerical extrapolations. Keep the vision high and the tenants will follow as long as the prospect of the towers' construction is there.

Now, on the other hand, taking seven years to reach ground level is not the best indication to fulfill such a promise... But I trust NY CAN do it and it will...
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Old April 19th, 2009, 01:18 PM   #8389
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gm2263 View Post
Although not aware of the actual leasable area of this project, I seriously doubt that it is more than the one in projects built in Chinese cities or the Emirates - even now. Doubting the viability of the project, especially in the context of it being the largest of its kind in the most developed country in the world, as well as the top financial center, is not a good sign, not only for the project itself but also about the belief and confidense of the US to continue its leading role in the world financial affairs.

Even if it would take more than expected in terms of resources, this project should become top priority, for it is a symbol of a city's power to regenerate itself after a disaster even of the size of the one in 911. Having been in this city many times and with the prospect to be there also this summer, I find it unacceptable for comparable projects to be built in numbers in known or unknown Chinese cities, many being former villages 20 years ago, and for NY or Chicago to not be able to compete against them.

Sometimes the vision becomes the moving power which will create new realities. Financial projections are good as long as they project current trends. The dynamics of such a project though go beyond numerical extrapolations. Keep the vision high and the tenants will follow as long as the prospect of the towers' construction is there.

Now, on the other hand, taking seven years to reach ground level is not the best indication to fulfill such a promise... But I trust NY CAN do it and it will...
excuse me but...

what to hell are you talking about?

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Old April 19th, 2009, 02:52 PM   #8390
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I was thinking the exact same thing! he writes a very eloquent speech about something but forgets to mention what he's talking about.
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Old April 19th, 2009, 05:11 PM   #8391
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I think he is saying that NY should speed up the construction to symbolize its regenerative abilities...
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Old April 19th, 2009, 06:31 PM   #8392
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"Don't believe anything you read and only half of what you see !" --- Mark Twain


I think alot of folks are either forgetting or are unaware of a few basic facts. First, Mr. Silverstein is under contract to supply 8 million square feet of office space at the WTC site, ( minus the 2.6 million square feet of Tower One). Second, Mr. Silverstein has said many times that the towers he is contracted to build are "well funded", and has listed the funding sources. (Liberty Bonds, insurance payments etc.) Third, he and the PA were determined NOT to rush to build simply to get towers up, but "To find what went wrong on 9-11 fix the problems and build the safest towers in the world."

Last edited by Zensteeldude; April 19th, 2009 at 06:48 PM.
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Old April 19th, 2009, 07:30 PM   #8393
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zensteeldude View Post
They are heavy, but not the 48 foot sections I was talking about the other day. Those are two 35 foot sections for the north side. I'm guessing they are going to lower them through the holes in Vesey St. either today or Sunday. They well bring the hight above street level.
Those weren't columns, they must be part of the erecting steel. Even the high-res cam isn't good enough sometimes. There are a number of 44 inch beams in the erecting steel and layed on there side they looked big enough to be columns.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/3512479...n/photostream/

the one on the right is a 44 inch.
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Old April 19th, 2009, 07:52 PM   #8394
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Those columns seems so much heavier than they have to be. Does it have something to do with the building being so much more rigid than most because it's being built so strong, requiring the base to handle heavier movement loads in earthquakes or collisions?

And, by the way, I had to turn Zen into OSHA for the woman in his pictures not wearing a hardhat and fall protection. I didn't want to, but twenty bucks is twenty bucks.

Last edited by Nomadd22; April 19th, 2009 at 10:25 PM.
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Old April 19th, 2009, 08:37 PM   #8395
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zensteeldude View Post
Those weren't columns, they must be part of the erecting steel. Even the high-res cam isn't good enough sometimes. There are a number of 44 inch beams in the erecting steel and layed on there side they looked big enough to be columns.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/3512479...n/photostream/

the one on the right is a 44 inch.
Actually, I was watching on the live, rotating webcam earlier (the one closer to the ground) as they went in place and it looked to me like they were trusses of some sort. There were two horizontal beams with diagonal sections in between (kind of like the trusses that went up over the great hall in the museum some time back), only smaller. I think they were laid vertically on Vesey, which is why they didn't look like trusses from the webcam. The rotating cam is kind of blurry though, so there may have been some stuff in the background making it look like something it wasn't. I'm not entirely sure where it was placed... either within the core or somewhere west of the core. Is there anything in the plans for such a kind of truss?
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Old April 19th, 2009, 08:44 PM   #8396
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nomadd22 View Post
Those columns seems so much heavier than they have to be. Does it have something to do with the building being so much more rigid than most because it's being built so strong, requiring the base to handle heavier loads in earthquakes or collisions?
It's called redundancy. If a building is built three times stronger than it has to be, then two thirds of its columns can be taken out by whatever kind of disaster - manmade or natural - and still stand strong.

Also, are you talking about the steel at the base, or throughout the building? Zen might know more, but I think the reason there's so much steel in the base is just because the entire weight of the top of the building rests on the bottom. In any building, the steel gets thinner as you go up, since there's less weight on it. I read an interview with one of the engineers of the Twin Towers who said something like 60% of the steel in the entire building was located in the bottom 30 floors.
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Old April 20th, 2009, 03:22 AM   #8397
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In addition to the base taking all the load, i presume the other reason for less steel (and hence less weight) towards the top of the building and moreso at the bottom is to encourage a degree of flexibility (sway), so that the building can cope with all sorts of dynamic forces in action. Skyscrapers are essentially vertical cantilevers, where because Bending moments are greatest at the base, more strength/rigidity is required there (provided through the steel).
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Old April 20th, 2009, 03:27 AM   #8398
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Crane











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Old April 20th, 2009, 06:18 AM   #8399
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cool close up pictures. nice to see close up pictures of a base
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Old April 20th, 2009, 06:23 AM   #8400
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Outstanding close up pictures - these climbers are normally used inside of a concrete elevator shaft, I have never seen this view before.
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