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Old June 2nd, 2009, 06:02 AM   #8881
Onn
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I know that there were originally plans to have this tower be the tallest in the world upon completion, but that was obviously scrapped with competition from other nations and headaches on the home front.

However, I do think that it would be nice if the tower was quite a bit taller. The could still keep the symbolism, why not have the roof height be 1776 ft and the height to the spire be 2001 ft? Now you have double the symbolism, more floors, and a taller tower.

I know obviously that this isnt going to happen with the design being basically finalized and all, but I think that it it a neat idea. I kind of think its cheating to have the height be measured by the spire height, even though it is common practice.
Ideally, of course. But this is New York. It's expensive to build something like that, especially in today's market. It's already costing billions just to build this tower, probably a faction of the cost of what the Burji Dubai did. And remember, there isn't just the Freedom Tower on the site. The Memorial and Transit Hub are apart of the same funding. The Transit Hub is going to coast more than the Freedom Tower itself, even. The city also wasn't sure if people were going to want space in a very tall tower after 9/11. I mean, the tower only has one tenant right now. This is also why it's being built with the highest security in mind, which is partly why it's taking so long to construct. All the concrete being used is three times as strong as New York City building codes, and the base is being built like a bunker.

Obviously a taller tower would have been great, but you get what you get. Freedom Tower will still be one of the tallest towers in the world upon completion, with or without the spire. For New York it's going to be very tall. And its simple design will set it apart from almost all other modern superalls in the world today.

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Old June 2nd, 2009, 06:20 AM   #8882
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taiki24 View Post
However, I do think that it would be nice if the tower was quite a bit taller. The could still keep the symbolism, why not have the roof height be 1776 ft and the height to the spire be 2001 ft? Now you have double the symbolism, more floors, and a taller tower.
I think there's a 2000 ft limit in the US... they cant build anything taller than that... That's why the Chicago Spire is exactly 2000 ft high: they're not allowed to make it taller
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Old June 2nd, 2009, 07:08 AM   #8883
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taiki24 View Post
However, I do think that it would be nice if the tower was quite a bit taller. The could still keep the symbolism, why not have the roof height be 1776 ft and the height to the spire be 2001 ft? Now you have double the symbolism, more floors, and a taller tower.
I agree with you 100%. I said that years ago. Hundreds, if not thousands, have expressed that exact opinion.

As crazy as this sounds I am hoping for a miracle or a surprise: maybe they will build it taller but just keep it from the public until it's done. When the Empire State Building was going up, it's actual completed height was held as a great secret ... and it was taller when done than anyone anticipated.
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Old June 2nd, 2009, 07:50 AM   #8884
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I agree with Taiki24; with all of the extra reinforcement the height can be added without any foundation modifications. I say go for it.
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Old June 2nd, 2009, 07:55 AM   #8885
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I think there's a 2000 ft limit in the US... they cant build anything taller than that... That's why the Chicago Spire is exactly 2000 ft high: they're not allowed to make it taller
You can build taller if you get special permission. Towers in the past have gotten permission to do so; but they were never built.
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Old June 2nd, 2009, 07:56 AM   #8886
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I agree with Taiki24; with all of the extra reinforcement the height can be added without any foundation modifications. I say go for it.
But isn't the tower tall enough already, does it really need to be taller? I don't think so.
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Old June 2nd, 2009, 08:51 AM   #8887
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At some point the NYC area will need more office space, maybe not in 10 years or even 15, but it seems like a sound investment to me.

And this is a forum devoted to skyscrapers! Of course we want it taller!!
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Old June 2nd, 2009, 09:01 AM   #8888
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At some point the NYC area will need more office space, maybe not in 10 years or even 15, but it seems like a sound investment to me.

And this is a forum devoted to skyscrapers! Of course we want it taller!!
Then they build a new skyscraper 10-15 years from now that's taller. Come on, this tower would be considered a supertall in any city in the world. And there two other superatalls (hopefully) that are going to get built right next to it. I think people need to chill, the new site won't disappoint.
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Old June 2nd, 2009, 09:08 AM   #8889
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Then they build a new skyscraper 10-15 years from now that's taller. Come on, this tower would be considered a supertall in any city in the world. And there two other superatalls (hopefully) that are going to get built right next to it. I think people need to chill, the new site won't disappoint.
Oh, I don't believe that it will disapoint, not by a long shot. Even though a hight increase would be nice, the tower as is is quite stunning. At first I thought that losing the twisting spire design was a bad idea, but I really do love the simplicity of the current. design.

The transport hub also looks to be an architectural marvel, and I really like the design of 2WTC. 3WTC seems a little bleh, but I do hope that both of them are built to add some density to the site. The news/rumors of possible radical height decreases is worrying, but I think they will be built.

What with Church Street and Beekman Place going up, we should have a nicely revitalized lower Manhattan skyline in a few years. It is still nice to dream though, especially for those of us who want to go into the field of architecture and are already thinking of ways to improve aspects of conventional designs.
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Old June 2nd, 2009, 02:35 PM   #8890
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You can build taller if you get special permission. Towers in the past have gotten permission to do so; but they were never built.

"The FAA presumption against construction of structures over a certain height is set forth in the FAA rules. A proposed structure or an alteration to an existing structure that exceeds 2,000 feet in height above the ground will be presumed to be a hazard to air navigation and to result in an inefficient utilization of airspace and the applicant has the burden of overcoming that presumption. Each notice submitted under the FAA rules proposing a structure in excess of 2,000 feet above ground must contain a detailed showing, directed to meeting this burden. Only in exceptional cases, where the FAA concludes that a clear and compelling showing has been made that it would not result in an inefficient utilization of the airspace and would not result in a hazard to air navigation, will a determination of no hazard be issued. See 14 CFR § 77.17(c)."
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Old June 2nd, 2009, 02:57 PM   #8891
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheShark View Post
I think there's a 2000 ft limit in the US... they cant build anything taller than that... That's why the Chicago Spire is exactly 2000 ft high: they're not allowed to make it taller
Their is a process in place that allows for exemptions to this rule. I'm sure having it granted for an extra foot on this building would not be a problem!
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As crazy as this sounds I am hoping for a miracle or a surprise: maybe they will build it taller but just keep it from the public until it's done. When the Empire State Building was going up, it's actual completed height was held as a great secret ... and it was taller when done than anyone anticipated.
The same thing happened with Burj Dubai, the official height wasn't released during construction. Actually even though the building is topped out the official height has yet to be announced and there is speculation that the spire will still be raised more! Certainly this building deserves to be the tallest in America!
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Old June 2nd, 2009, 06:33 PM   #8892
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"The FAA presumption against construction of structures over a certain height is set forth in the FAA rules. A proposed structure or an alteration to an existing structure that exceeds 2,000 feet in height above the ground will be presumed to be a hazard to air navigation and to result in an inefficient utilization of airspace and the applicant has the burden of overcoming that presumption. Each notice submitted under the FAA rules proposing a structure in excess of 2,000 feet above ground must contain a detailed showing, directed to meeting this burden. Only in exceptional cases, where the FAA concludes that a clear and compelling showing has been made that it would not result in an inefficient utilization of the airspace and would not result in a hazard to air navigation, will a determination of no hazard be issued. See 14 CFR § 77.17(c)."
Why are you telling me this? I already know. Towers have gotten approval in the past that are taller than 2000 feet. There was one in Chicago. It was never built, but it was approved. In the 1970s or 80s.
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Old June 2nd, 2009, 06:34 PM   #8893
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The same thing happened with Burj Dubai, the official height wasn't released during construction. Actually even though the building is topped out the official height has yet to be announced and there is speculation that the spire will still be raised more! Certainly this building deserves to be the tallest in America!
Freedom Tower is going to be the tallest in America...
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Old June 2nd, 2009, 06:37 PM   #8894
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Why are you telling me this? I already know. Towers have gotten approval in the past that are taller than 2000 feet. There was one in Chicago. It was never built, but it was approved. In the 1970s or 80s.

Don't get your panties in a twist. I was just posting the official reference to clarify the issue.
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Old June 2nd, 2009, 06:40 PM   #8895
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Nobody bitching about the high of this building outside of this thread, the internet and the people who don't want it built in the first place. Don't like the height go and build your own.
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Old June 2nd, 2009, 07:04 PM   #8896
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Don't get your panties in a twist. I was just posting the official reference to clarify the issue.
Ohh ok. That's fine then. I'm sure there are people who don't know what were talking about.
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Old June 3rd, 2009, 02:16 AM   #8897
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No, the restaurant Windows Of The World is coming back. It's going to be a little smaller though....not sure what floor.
Well what other floor could it be on the rest are office and mechanical floors. It won't be on top because the Port Authority will put a new restaurant up there. If they do come back it will have to be at the bottom which is unlikely. In respect to those who died in the North Tower I think it's safe to say that they won't bring it back because alot of Windows employees died on 9/11 and to just open up the restaurant up there again wouldn't be wise.
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Old June 3rd, 2009, 02:22 AM   #8898
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Well what other floor could it be on the rest are office and mechanical floors. It won't be on top because the Port Authority will put a new restaurant up there. If they do come back it will have to be at the bottom which is unlikely. In respect to those who died in the North Tower I think it's safe to say that they won't bring it back because alot of Windows employees died on 9/11 and to just open up the restaurant up there again wouldn't be wise.
Why wouldn't they bring the restaurant back? We have to rebuild what was destroyed. And the Windows of the World has always been the hottest ticket in town. It made more money per year than any other restaurant in the country before 9/11. That says something. I believe they said it was going to be above the last office floor, but I don't know for sure. There are no other commercial restaurants going in the Freedom Tower.
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Old June 3rd, 2009, 02:24 AM   #8899
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I agree with you 100%. I said that years ago. Hundreds, if not thousands, have expressed that exact opinion.

As crazy as this sounds I am hoping for a miracle or a surprise: maybe they will build it taller but just keep it from the public until it's done. When the Empire State Building was going up, it's actual completed height was held as a great secret ... and it was taller when done than anyone anticipated.
Lol yeah I wish that would happen but with the Port Authority in command that's very unlikely considering they keep scaling down on certain projects and thank goodness it hasn't affected Freedom Tower but it will probably remain at 1,776 feet which is the tallest America has gone. Sears Tower is 1,730 feet when measured to the pinnacle and the original North Tower was about 1,730 feet as well so this will be the tallest.
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Old June 3rd, 2009, 02:31 AM   #8900
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Why wouldn't they bring the restaurant back? We have to rebuild what was destroyed. And the Windows of the World has always been the hottest ticket in town. It made more money per year than any other restaurant in the country before 9/11. That says something. I believe they said it was going to be above the last office floor, but I don't know for sure. There are no other commercial restaurants going in the Freedom Tower.
Don't get me wrong I hope Windows Of The World does indeed return. I ate there a few times in the 1990's and it was amazing. The Port Authority however, may be *******s (which they are already are) and decide not to bring it back. The Port wants good business even if that means cutting off all ties to 9/11 and the Twin Towers, even the restaurant. They already changed the Freedom Tower's name, put the observation deck indoors, I know they probably won't even bring back the original restaurant.
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