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Old June 15th, 2009, 07:14 PM   #9041
Msradell
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ramvid01 View Post
You keep harping on Unions, for which reason I don't know. Considering that almost every large skyscraper built in NYC (including WTC 4) using union workers, I don't see how it is relevant.
Because union workers working with private industry works. Union workers working in a political atmosphere that is already a mess causes more problems. It's not the union workers themselves that are causing the problem in this case, it's the deadly combination of unions and politicians!
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Old June 15th, 2009, 08:49 PM   #9042
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Speaking of which, it's weird that both webcams are down at once. Is this for security reasons, perhaps?
I was thinking the same thing the other day. But unlikely.
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Old June 15th, 2009, 10:25 PM   #9043
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Unfortunately NYC residents like this self are blind to the effects that politics and unions are having on the FT project (and many others in your city). You've been putting up with it so long you don't really see what's happening. While all of your politicians want you to believe the slow rate of construction is due to the PATH tracks under the building, that's just a fallacy. If it was being built by private industry they would've found a way to work around the interference. They couldn't afford to take all the time that is presently being taken. The old saying that "time is money" is certainly true in the construction industry.
Haha, we've got an expert here.
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Old June 15th, 2009, 10:28 PM   #9044
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Strangely enough Earthcam went down for over a week right around this time last year as well.
It went down last week around the same time as a really bad thunderstorm came rolling through. Would not surprise me if it had to do with the weather, as it pretty much was cloudy/rained that whole week.
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Old June 16th, 2009, 12:20 AM   #9045
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The reason why it's progressing at its current rate is mostly location. Soon it will be rising at the rate of any normal skyscraper that just had all below grade work finished. Had the tower remained at the location it was supposed to be built at, it would likely be close to topping out now and I don't think the first footprints were over the tracks.
As you can see from the south footprint of the memorial now, the south tower was built over the tracks. The difference is, the tracks were operating 365 days a year through construction when they built the original Twin Towers. The PATH and subway lines opened after the complex was built
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If it was being built by private industry they would've found a way to work around the interference.
No they would just bemoan the way the city refused to close the PATH and subway lines during their construction.
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Old June 16th, 2009, 02:17 AM   #9046
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We are supposed to get an update today on the status of the talks between Silverstein, the PA, and everyone else, on building Tower 2. But nothing to speak of yet...
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Old June 16th, 2009, 04:01 AM   #9047
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Originally Posted by adam-albany View Post
As you can see from the south footprint of the memorial now, the south tower was built over the tracks. The difference is, the tracks were operating 365 days a year through construction when they built the original Twin Towers.

The PATH and subway lines opened after the complex was built
Which of the statements is true? One says of the tracks were operating during the entire time the south tower was built. The other says they were completed until after words? Only one of these statements can be true.

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No they would just bemoan the way the city refused to close the PATH and subway lines during their construction.
Privately funded projects find a way to make things happen. Instead of asking the question "can we?" they ask, "how can we?" when they come up against a major obstacle. They don't spend weeks discussing the issues because time costs them money. They find a way to overcome the obstacle and keep the project going. You'd really be surprised what can be done if you don't take NO for an answer!
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Old June 16th, 2009, 07:27 AM   #9048
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Andd.....here it is. Still no agreement.

NY Times

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Still No Breakthrough in Ground Zero Talks
By CHARLES V. BAGLI
Published: June 15, 2009

Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg’s effort to break the impasse over the development of office towers on the 16-acre ground zero site limped along Monday, with the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey and the developer Larry A. Silverstein still at odds.

Officials from New York and New Jersey, as well as the developer and the Port Authority, which owns the World Trade Center site, have been in constant discussions since last Thursday, which had been the mayor’s deadline for a resolution to be passed. But several officials involved in the talks say the two sides continue to snipe at each other’s proposals.

Deputy Mayor Robert C. Lieber tried to put the best face on what is becoming a tedious effort, while seeming to scold both sides.

“While our talks have made headway, we can continue to work through the details to try to arrive at a consensus that all parties can support,” Mr. Lieber said in a statement released by City Hall. “The redevelopment of ground zero is no ordinary real estate project. Rebuilding the site is a civic obligation of the highest order, and the people of our city rightly expect all those responsible for the site to work cooperatively to honor that obligation.”

Mr. Silverstein is to build three office towers on the site. Unable to obtain financing or secure anchor tenants, Mr. Silverstein has demanded that the Port Authority guarantee as much as $3.2 billion in loans.

The authority, which is already building a skyscraper, a transit hub and portions of the Sept. 11 memorial, reluctantly offered to provide help with up to $1.2 billion in financing for the first of the developer’s three towers. The authority does not want to function as a bank for speculative office space, especially at a time when commercial vacancy rates are climbing and the Port Authority’s own revenues have declined.

“We agree that the World Trade Center must be rebuilt to meet the public interest, which is why we will continue in good faith to push for a solution that delivers retail and office space to meet a significantly changed market while protecting public resources and public projects,” Stephen Sigmund, a spokesman for the authority, said in a statement. “In the meantime, the public side of the site will move forward.”

So far, the governors of New York and New Jersey have backed the authority’s position, while Mr. Bloomberg and Sheldon Silver, the New York State Assembly speaker, have largely supported Mr. Silverstein.

Despite the deadlock, hundreds of construction workers labor at the site on the authority’s office tower, the memorial, the transit hub and even Mr. Silverstein’s first tower, which is emerging at street level from the bottom of the construction pit.
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Old June 16th, 2009, 03:31 PM   #9049
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At this rate, even the "retail stumps" seem like a bridge too far!
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Old June 16th, 2009, 03:57 PM   #9050
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It's hard to tell because most of the cameras are down, but it seems like the north core is only one (at most 2) jump away from the south core now . Pretty soon we can see steady progress.
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Old June 16th, 2009, 06:01 PM   #9051
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The Noth Core has officially jumped! One more jump until it catches up with the South Core.

June 15th:

image hosted on flickr

http://www.flickr.com/photos/morrong...36538/sizes/l/
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Old June 16th, 2009, 07:16 PM   #9052
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So this is like one, two months at most before another jump we see steel erection on the northern section of the core. It's great to see it progressing slowly towards progressing quickly. Let's just hope the next jump won't take as long as the others.
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Old June 16th, 2009, 07:17 PM   #9053
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Msradell View Post
Privately funded projects find a way to make things happen. Instead of asking the question "can we?" they ask, "how can we?" when they come up against a major obstacle. They don't spend weeks discussing the issues because time costs them money. They find a way to overcome the obstacle and keep the project going. You'd really be surprised what can be done if you don't take NO for an answer!
This isn't true. My guess is that a totally private developer would never even begin to develop on this site due to the difficulties and cost. They would find another less challenging site and develop there. The only way this site gets developed is with government assistance in one form or another. Private industry doesn't just say "how can we?" in the face of something like this, they say "we can't."

Look, to be clear, that's not a knock on private industry, it's just a reflection that the site is so challenging that private investors would find it difficult to see how they can make a profit on the site when they could build on another site more cheaply... that's the smart economic decision. So if that site is going to be built on, then we're left with the government getting involved for better or worse.
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Old June 16th, 2009, 08:25 PM   #9054
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This would look nice in Grand Theft Auto 4.
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Old June 16th, 2009, 10:30 PM   #9055
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[QUOTE Look, to be clear, that's not a knock on private industry, it's just a reflection that the site is so challenging that private investors would find it difficult to see how they can make a profit on the site when they could build on another site more cheaply... that's the smart economic decision. So if that site is going to be built on, then we're left with the government getting involved for better or worse.[/QUOTE]

sorry but look at emaar they build the burj dubai ( and yes it's a thin line between emaar and the dubai gov. but still) and they build it as a showcase to show to the world what they can. In europe there are alot of private contracters / developers that thake riscy developments to show what they can do.
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Old June 16th, 2009, 10:32 PM   #9056
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Danillo View Post
This isn't true. My guess is that a totally private developer would never even begin to develop on this site due to the difficulties and cost. They would find another less challenging site and develop there. The only way this site gets developed is with government assistance in one form or another. Private industry doesn't just say "how can we?" in the face of something like this, they say "we can't."
The proposed project for the Hudson Yards is considerably more complex than this project. It will require a huge platform above an existing rail yard to be built for the buildings to rest on. It's been proposed by private industry saw something as simple as FT would not be a problem. I'm sure many private companies would have loved put their name on FT if they would've been given the opportunity.
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Old June 16th, 2009, 10:38 PM   #9057
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I'm sorry, but you can't possibly know what you're talking about. That's not an insult, I'm just saying that no one outside of those currently working on the project can grasp all of the complexities of the site. From the outside looking in, we can say that progress is too slow and that they're dragging their feet on the construction. But who are we to judge? WE don't know anything.
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Old June 16th, 2009, 11:37 PM   #9058
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sorry but look at emaar they build the burj dubai ( and yes it's a thin line between emaar and the dubai gov. but still) and they build it as a showcase to show to the world what they can. In europe there are alot of private contracters / developers that thake riscy developments to show what they can do.
Was the Burj Dubai built at the site of two terrorist attacks? Is it in a highly dense urban area where the cost of real estate is considerably higher? Are there zoning, enviromental, worker regulations that limit both construction and increase the price of said construction?

No. It was built on sand with what some would call slave labor.
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Old June 16th, 2009, 11:41 PM   #9059
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The proposed project for the Hudson Yards is considerably more complex than this project. It will require a huge platform above an existing rail yard to be built for the buildings to rest on.
How are you so sure about this? Where are the facts that say that? It may be easier in fact, because the tracks are already at bedrock level, so there is no need to dig, and the railyards are not an active communter line, it is just a railyard.
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Old June 17th, 2009, 01:54 AM   #9060
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Good to see the north core finally jump. Hopefully by late august it'll be caught up to the south core.
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