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Old October 7th, 2009, 11:40 PM   #10781
adam-albany
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Old October 7th, 2009, 11:49 PM   #10782
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rack776 View Post
"Stupid question alert"
I'm not an Engineer so please forgive the wording of my questions- I just want to learn.
(I do not have builders plans to look like some of you guys LOL! finished rendering is all I have seen so far). There is a few hunderd pages of "whats that" & "Dubai is Better" to sort through before finally giving up and asking a question so I appologize if I asked in the wrong place.
(I also realize the smaller inner steel is not going on top of the larger steel at the bottom)

Here's my questions-

1. How far up the building will the Large collums continue to go? and will the rest of the structure be built with more "normal" sized steel? Nothing about this construction seems conventional so far to me.

2. If I understand correctly the inner collums they are putting up now work like a "buttress" on a catherdeal by helping hold the outter collums in place? Does it add add a wider cross sectional width to the collum when it's all tied together?

3. People have been talking about the "slow progress" due to welding Are they welding
all the joints completely? If so is it for Super Extra Strength or is that fairly common practice on a
building this size? (I know they weld alot but not that much)

If i'm wrong feel free to laugh. Just tell me the correct answer
#1 The columns well get smaller the higher up they go, it just stands to reason because there is less weight to support.

#2 The small columns behind the perimeter are what's called the louver wall, it's part of the ventilation system and contributes nothing to the over all tower structure. In fact they just add weight that the perimeter columns must support. The floor beams brace the columns against lateral loads by directly connecting them to the core and each other. The distance between the ground floor and the 3rd floor required that the columns be very strong but the distance between the 3rd and 4th floor is much smaller, thus lighter columns.

#3 It is not normal to weld column connections. All that welding well make the structure much much stronger than a normal bolted connection.

Last edited by Zensteeldude; October 8th, 2009 at 12:18 AM.
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Old October 7th, 2009, 11:50 PM   #10783
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good progress.
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Old October 7th, 2009, 11:53 PM   #10784
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Swiddle View Post
I believe the new perimeter columns are smaller mainly because there will be more of them. There will be an additional vertical column over the giant "doorway", and there will be several diagonal columns. You can make them out in the above render. In other words, there are six jumbo columns on each side of the building at lobby level. On the next level, you have 13 columns per side.
In part you are correct, more columns to support the weight so they can be lighter. There are six columns running up past the 20th floor on each side. All that diagonal stuff is to give the most stressed part of the structural box more strength against twisting moments.

Oh, that column above the entrances is not actually a column, it is a hanger it well be under tension when everything is in place.
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Old October 8th, 2009, 01:04 AM   #10785
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roel View Post
About f*ing time.
I know, right! Took them long enough. I'll be glad to see that eyesore disappear for good.
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Old October 8th, 2009, 01:56 AM   #10786
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mindgoessnap View Post
I know, right! Took them long enough. I'll be glad to see that eyesore disappear for good.
I'll be amazed if it's completely gone next year. When the PA released it's big report last year they said it was going to be gone by fall 2009. Well it's not. They've missed so many deadlines it's ridiculous. Their are too many people with too many fingers in the pot milking this thing for every cent to be had. Their is no incentive for them to remove this building and million$ to be made by delaying it further.


BTW, thanks Zensteeldude for the construction insights! Great stuff!
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Old October 8th, 2009, 04:53 AM   #10787
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Littlemob View Post
To the people above that asked the question's about the smaller columns of the 3th and upwards. ARE you blind!! those columns are not at ashed to the supper columns they are setback. If you LAZY people went back a couple of pages to study other picture's you could see that.
If you took enough time to look at the picture we are talking about you would also see the two columns we're talking about that are attached to the super columns! We realize the very small columns are set back from the perimeter of the building but there are two columns that are now attached to the top of the super columns themselves and are much smaller. Take a look at the picture and you'll realize what we're talking about.
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Old October 8th, 2009, 05:03 AM   #10788
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Quote:
Originally Posted by micrip View Post
In any project of large size, things happen in a very specific and pre-planned order. The columns will go up when their time comes.
The support beams for the large mobile crane there are in the way...

- A
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Old October 8th, 2009, 05:11 AM   #10789
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WNY forum reports that the 18000 crane is awaiting the necessary permits before it can be put into operation.
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Old October 8th, 2009, 06:18 AM   #10790
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spectre000 View Post
WNY forum reports that the 18000 crane is awaiting the necessary permits before it can be put into operation.
Someone didn't think about this a long time ago?...
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Old October 8th, 2009, 06:43 AM   #10791
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crazy
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Old October 8th, 2009, 07:00 AM   #10792
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metsfan View Post
The support beams for the large mobile crane there are in the way...

- A
...What?
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Old October 8th, 2009, 07:22 AM   #10793
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af
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Old October 8th, 2009, 02:54 PM   #10794
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spectre000 View Post
WNY forum reports that the 18000 crane is awaiting the necessary permits before it can be put into operation.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Onn View Post
Someone didn't think about this a long time ago?...
Somebody probably did think about it and apply for it a long time ago. The problem is this is NYC and nothing ever happens quickly there! It probably get delayed by politics and a dispute between the city and the port authority or some other agency!
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Old October 8th, 2009, 04:20 PM   #10795
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the big crane seems to be working since the first western perimeter column is in place

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Old October 8th, 2009, 04:22 PM   #10796
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spectre000 View Post
WNY forum reports that the 18000 crane is awaiting the necessary permits before it can be put into operation.
Maybe a shortage of crane inspectors after the firings/ jailings of some of the previous ones.
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Old October 8th, 2009, 05:15 PM   #10797
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Think about all the crane mishaps in NYC in the past year or two. I am sure that this crane, with its enormous capacity and specs, was looked over very carefully before being certified for use. The last thing this site needs is another delay due to a mistake. Look at the bridge over Hoover dam and how long it has taken to recover from a crane disaster.

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=363201

Also, about the discussion of the 'smaller' columns on top of the jumbo columns: It's most likely going to have three columns coming out of each of the connectors. If you look at the renders, the whole base structure above the lobby level(s) has 30 degree beams on the left and right of each vertical beam. I may be wrong, so I won't call anyone LAZY for not looking back many pages (pointed directly at you littlemob)

Oh yeah, and I really wish I could see the west jumbos being installed on the HD Earthcam.

Last edited by Viperfreak2; October 8th, 2009 at 05:21 PM.
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Old October 8th, 2009, 07:23 PM   #10798
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zensteeldude View Post
#1 The columns well get smaller the higher up they go, it just stands to reason because there is less weight to support.

#2 The small columns behind the perimeter are what's called the louver wall, it's part of the ventilation system and contributes nothing to the over all tower structure. In fact they just add weight that the perimeter columns must support. The floor beams brace the columns against lateral loads by directly connecting them to the core and each other. The distance between the ground floor and the 3rd floor required that the columns be very strong but the distance between the 3rd and 4th floor is much smaller, thus lighter columns.

#3 It is not normal to weld column connections. All that welding well make the structure much much stronger than a normal bolted connection.
Thank You Very Much, I appreciate the Response!
I would have never guessed ventilation, with all the
talk about the original towers floors falling, I just
assumed it was all for structure,Thanks for the insight!
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Old October 8th, 2009, 07:32 PM   #10799
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Quote:
Originally Posted by erPiadda View Post
this tower is growing soo slowly
yeah, I have never seen a tower go up so slow. It hasn't changed much in a year - the same amount of time it takes the rest of the world to build a whole skyscraper. Some people will say the usuall - that it has to be terrorist proof and stringent health and safty, the usual excuses. But we have these same parameters in UK and it doesn't take this long to build like 5 floors - what's going on USA... why so slow?
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Old October 8th, 2009, 07:49 PM   #10800
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DrewHallam View Post
But we have these same parameters in UK and it doesn't take this long to build like 5 floors - what's going on USA... why so slow?
But the buildings there don't go higher than 5 floors
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