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Old May 30th, 2010, 10:09 PM   #14481
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Quote:
Originally Posted by romanamerican View Post
I hope that actually doesn't happen. fast doesn't mean better quality of construction
Faster means faster. Thats all. It doesn't has to have any relation to the quaility. It is sheduled to be constructed, as strong as you described, with the speed of 1 floor/week, and the fact that they are doing it longer won't make it stronger, or better.
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Old May 30th, 2010, 10:41 PM   #14482
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This discussion is boring. You all sound like some impatient kids who want everything NOW NOW NOW. Please, stop with the speed thing, will you? Nobody in NYC cares if the Shard is faster or not or if someone in Shanghai/dubai/poland laughs at the process. Every situation is unique and NYC will do what it is able and that is all it can do.
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Old May 30th, 2010, 11:14 PM   #14483
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patrykus View Post
Faster means faster. Thats all. It doesn't has to have any relation to the quaility. It is sheduled to be constructed, as strong as you described, with the speed of 1 floor/week, and the fact that they are doing it longer won't make it stronger, or better.
You obviously have no experience whatsoever of a construction environment, and the dynamics of it, with all its complications. Modification in the schedule can be affected by so many reasons, it's useless to even take a guess without more info. Having taken a good amount of building and construction classes to support my civil engineering major, I have fortunately been exposed to that environment and people with that kind of expertise (surely not myself). Your ignorance is laughable. Unless you know what you are talking about, in that case we can have a private conversation, since this is not the place for it, silence i your best instrument. Seriously.

p.s. the issues with the core's concrete earlier during the construction, delayed construction. Example of a delay caused by repairing a mistake, that would have been a serious security issue for the structure.

Other examples can be taken also by the old WTC Twins, that many here take as an example as "fast construction". The fire resistant coating of the main steel structure was given to a company (with mob implications) that to finish the job on time, and to save money, didn't do their job right. The consequences: the covering was blown away in the explosion when the 2 airplanes hit the buildings, and the columns lasted less time than what would have been expected under those heat conditions, and less people had less time to leave the buildings. "Faster" and "cheaper" cost the lives of hundreds of human beings. As an engineer, that is unacceptable.

So again, I ask you to know flap your gums to talk about nothing (unless you can prove otherwise, such as more information on the delay, that is not related to the construction process and its security), because with each page of this forum, you are digging yourself a hole in ignorance (on this as on the Carnegie thread).
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Old May 30th, 2010, 11:57 PM   #14484
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I'm sorry but you are wrong. Burj Dubai has even (as you called it) "stronger" construction. Another example - National Stadium in Warsaw (Poland) for Euro 2012 Championship. In just 7 months, from this state:



To this state (with two levels of parking lot below the future court):



So as you can see, "fast" has nothing to do with quality. If you say that there were issues with the core it just means that the workers were moro... I mean not as good qualified workers as they should be. And risk of this kind of situation can be met at any construction site. So stop using argument about being more secured because I'm starting to think that in your opinion after 9/11 OWTC will be most everything-proofed structure in a whole world and I believe it will not .

Quote:
"Faster" and "cheaper" cost the lives of hundreds of human beings. As an engineer, that is unacceptable.
... Yeah, as if there were no money for this project and as if this was a main reason for problem with the speed...
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Last edited by zbieraj; May 31st, 2010 at 12:29 AM.
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Old May 31st, 2010, 12:04 AM   #14485
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Stop this crap or they will close this thread again...I'm seriously tired of amount of crap posts in this thread...Every ******' week new shit..Stop it already! Nobody cares! Why don't people understand? Construction updates only! One WTC only!
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Old May 31st, 2010, 12:21 AM   #14486
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Quote:
Originally Posted by romanamerican View Post
You obviously have no experience whatsoever of a construction environment, and the dynamics of it, with all its complications. Modification in the schedule can be affected by so many reasons,
Since you called me ignorant you are obligged to answer me. What reason that would be? Redesigning structure? What, some engineer in the midle of construction said "no, whait, guys, it won't work" ? please, the stage of desiging is past. What it is now is chain of actions they have to do. So, please since I am so ignorant tell me, you can pour conrete better? Or install beams better? No you don't, all you can do i is do it faster or slower. And if they predict they can do it faster, that means it is posible. But someone faild, and that is all about it, regardles of the reason. And if you will still insist, they have some unexpected, independent from them, obstalces then ask Zen, I'm sure he knows best.
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Old May 31st, 2010, 12:26 AM   #14487
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If you want to debate, take it to the Skybar or PM each other. Stop the inflammatory posts before the mods lock the thread or ban you permanently.
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Old May 31st, 2010, 12:28 AM   #14488
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Why is it important to these Polish posters that this building isn't fast enough, compared to the Shard, etc? What are they trying to say? Why don't they concern themselves with their own projects if ours arn't good enough for them.
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Old May 31st, 2010, 12:32 AM   #14489
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I haven't comparing this to the Shard. These are two extremly different buildings. I have just reacted at some stupid comment. Sorry for that. I geas I'm just bullsheet sensitive
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Old May 31st, 2010, 12:43 AM   #14490
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And right now we actually know that Polish posters are soooooo bad . It's just strange that this kind of project moves so slowly. And by the way, actually more often those "posters" are from US, so stop complaining.

And stop saying "if ours arn't good enough for them." Who said or even thought that? You started saying that this discussion is boring but you are the one who is trolling right now.

I was just hoping for any explanation which will give some light at the situation. What is more, you are attacking Polish posters. That's strange because in every other topic in SSC there is no problem or complains about us.

Is it wrong to ask questions? [gosh, it sounds like Cartman ] To wonder why it's heading this, not other direction? What is the reason causing problems, etc?

Cheers
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Old May 31st, 2010, 12:45 AM   #14491
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We talk about a state-of-the-art 500+ skyscraper. It's rediculous to compare it with a stadium. It was also said about 100 times before that the construction of the WTC is not comparable to the contruction of the Burj.

However I'm still sad that the last schedule again can't be hold . But I wait for this building since 7 years so I guess a few weaks more ore less doesn't count :S

Last edited by OldWorldResident; May 31st, 2010 at 01:07 AM.
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Old May 31st, 2010, 12:49 AM   #14492
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It was not compared. It was just a sample of making building fast and that building sth fast doesn't mean that quality will be bad.

Quote:
Originally Posted by OldWorldResident View Post
However I'm still said that the last schedule again can't be hold . But I wait for this building since 7 years so I guess a few weaks more ore less doesn't count :S
Well said . Where can I find last schedule?
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Old May 31st, 2010, 12:54 AM   #14493
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Quote:
Originally Posted by romanamerican View Post
You obviously have no experience whatsoever of a construction environment, and the dynamics of it, with all its complications. Modification in the schedule can be affected by so many reasons, it's useless to even take a guess without more info. Having taken a good amount of building and construction classes to support my civil engineering major, I have fortunately been exposed to that environment and people with that kind of expertise (surely not myself). Your ignorance is laughable. Unless you know what you are talking about, in that case we can have a private conversation, since this is not the place for it, silence i your best instrument. Seriously.

p.s. the issues with the core's concrete earlier during the construction, delayed construction. Example of a delay caused by repairing a mistake, that would have been a serious security issue for the structure.

Other examples can be taken also by the old WTC Twins, that many here take as an example as "fast construction". The fire resistant coating of the main steel structure was given to a company (with mob implications) that to finish the job on time, and to save money, didn't do their job right. The consequences: the covering was blown away in the explosion when the 2 airplanes hit the buildings, and the columns lasted less time than what would have been expected under those heat conditions, and less people had less time to leave the buildings. "Faster" and "cheaper" cost the lives of hundreds of human beings. As an engineer, that is unacceptable.

So again, I ask you to know flap your gums to talk about nothing (unless you can prove otherwise, such as more information on the delay, that is not related to the construction process and its security), because with each page of this forum, you are digging yourself a hole in ignorance (on this as on the Carnegie thread).
I agree.

+1
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Old May 31st, 2010, 01:01 AM   #14494
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zbieraj View Post
Well said . Where can I find last schedule?
There was a timetable on panynj.gov, but it's offline now. They also used to upload quaterly reports, but there is no first quarter 2010 report (yet).
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Old May 31st, 2010, 01:02 AM   #14495
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zbieraj View Post
It was not compared. It was just a sample of making building fast and that building sth fast doesn't mean that quality will be bad.



Well said . Where can I find last schedule?

The PA had a schedule posted on its website. But it's been removed because many areas are behind schedule and won't hit the targets they set in late 2008.

http://www.panynj.gov/wtcprogress/milestones.html

And no one is attacking you because your Polish. Get over yourself.

Posts about delays, construction going slow, etc is "trolling", and grounds for being banned from this thread. You may simply be asking why it is such. But 99.99% of these posts are just punks trying to start a fight. Don't post such questions on this forum. You want answers, try www.google.com.
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Old May 31st, 2010, 01:11 AM   #14496
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You know, I have never asked in this thread about speed. I just know that its slow and thats fine with me. But one thing I cant stand are some stupid explonations. Thats all. Ones again sorry for offtopic
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Old May 31st, 2010, 01:34 AM   #14497
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spectre000 View Post
Don't post such questions on this forum. You want answers, try www.google.com.
Lol, i'd like to say "don't teach father how to make kids". What is more you are starting a fight being such an agresive . Chill out. Firstly I was amazed by slow progress and after that I've just asked a question. Maby next step will be no posting pictures here and just sayin: check google photos?

Cheers

Yep, moderator, please clear last page .
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Old May 31st, 2010, 01:35 AM   #14498
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I already read a lot about this blue "cacoon", which seems to be kind of innovative. What about this brown thing? Is this just an ordinary tarpaulin or is it something special, too?

I hope this question doesn't sound too stupid. :S
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Old May 31st, 2010, 03:40 AM   #14499
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By lofter1, WNY, dusk, 5-29-10.



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Old May 31st, 2010, 04:34 AM   #14500
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OldWorldResident View Post
I already read a lot about this blue "cacoon", which seems to be kind of innovative. What about this brown thing? Is this just an ordinary tarpaulin or is it something special, too?

I hope this question doesn't sound too stupid. :S
The blue cacoon is like a cage thingy the black looks like just netting
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