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Old June 4th, 2010, 11:18 PM   #14561
Nexis
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Originally Posted by -POLLUX- View Post
what are those sirens/speakers for? i already realized them last year!
can anybody tell me please?
are they put all over ground zero?


sorry for using HK999's photo here!!!
They have them all over the NYC Metro , usually in CBD's. There Emergency Alert Sirens and Speakers. Here's one i took in Downtown Jersey City. Its part of a Security Ring , also comes with Bollards , Tons Cameras , and every new building has like a Subway sytle turnstile to enter the building. Along with Airport type Screening.

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Old June 5th, 2010, 02:12 AM   #14562
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they are used to house the vent structure for the underground area of the Memorial and utilities.
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Old June 5th, 2010, 09:19 AM   #14563
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thanks!
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Old June 5th, 2010, 10:42 AM   #14564
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Anyone else not so thrilled about this? I'm a new poster here, and just from what I've seen posters seem to fall into two categories: technical people and casual fanboys. Either you post lots of specs and discuss them, or you say things like "Ohhhhh I can't wait to see it!" as if any new, big project is a good one. Maybe I'm missing something, but I feel like we should be thinking harder on a stylistic/aesthetic/architectural level.

My deal with this tower is that it seems to fall into most of the pitfalls of 21st Century supertall architectural without having many of the merits. In the 50s and 60s we had an "International Style", i.e. buildings that basically have nothing to do with their particular cites-- many people find these to be generally the least interesting (and ugliest) buildings in the modern skyline. In my opinion, that International Style isn't half as International as new trends we get. Basically, to be "creative" today all you need is a few elements: glass, steel, and angles. Almost any combination will do. I think some people are immediately drawn to this because it's looks modern or postmodern almost in a graphic novel kind of way, but it carries a huge huge downside. Basically, take a really close look at the new design and decide if you think something about it screams NEW YORK. I don't. Look at the Empire State Building-- that, for sure, screams New York and did as well in the 1930s. Look at the more recent Citicorp Bldg., I would argue that that also seems like a New York kind of place. Hell, even the UN Secretariat. Hindsight is always nice in determining what is New York and what isn't, but I think you can actually find objective criteria for this. Even the old Twin Towers didn't really have analogues elsewhere in the world. Now, again, look at this one. I could see it in Hong Kong, Singapore, somewhere else in Asia, maybe even a European city. Someone, please, how is this design indigenous to New York? How is it not simply the product of an international design team with an international aesthetic? For a project with this historical importance and symbolism, this matters more than ever.

A couple things: 1) I have somewhat overstated my case to get a response... I don't hate it quite that much, 2) This was by no means the worst proposal I saw.
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Old June 5th, 2010, 12:35 PM   #14565
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It may not be New York now but it will be in 50 years
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Old June 5th, 2010, 01:04 PM   #14566
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First Quarter 2010 Report finally available:

http://www.panynj.gov/wtcprogress/qu...y-reports.html
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Old June 5th, 2010, 11:13 PM   #14567
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Quote:
Originally Posted by albatrosspro View Post
Anyone else not so thrilled about this? I'm a new poster here, and just from what I've seen posters seem to fall into two categories: technical people and casual fanboys. Either you post lots of specs and discuss them, or you say things like "Ohhhhh I can't wait to see it!" as if any new, big project is a good one. Maybe I'm missing something, but I feel like we should be thinking harder on a stylistic/aesthetic/architectural level.

My deal with this tower is that it seems to fall into most of the pitfalls of 21st Century supertall architectural without having many of the merits. In the 50s and 60s we had an "International Style", i.e. buildings that basically have nothing to do with their particular cites-- many people find these to be generally the least interesting (and ugliest) buildings in the modern skyline. In my opinion, that International Style isn't half as International as new trends we get. Basically, to be "creative" today all you need is a few elements: glass, steel, and angles. Almost any combination will do. I think some people are immediately drawn to this because it's looks modern or postmodern almost in a graphic novel kind of way, but it carries a huge huge downside. Basically, take a really close look at the new design and decide if you think something about it screams NEW YORK. I don't. Look at the Empire State Building-- that, for sure, screams New York and did as well in the 1930s. Look at the more recent Citicorp Bldg., I would argue that that also seems like a New York kind of place. Hell, even the UN Secretariat. Hindsight is always nice in determining what is New York and what isn't, but I think you can actually find objective criteria for this. Even the old Twin Towers didn't really have analogues elsewhere in the world. Now, again, look at this one. I could see it in Hong Kong, Singapore, somewhere else in Asia, maybe even a European city. Someone, please, how is this design indigenous to New York? How is it not simply the product of an international design team with an international aesthetic? For a project with this historical importance and symbolism, this matters more than ever.

A couple things: 1) I have somewhat overstated my case to get a response... I don't hate it quite that much, 2) This was by no means the worst proposal I saw.
A couple things to keep in mind. The renders most commonly seen by the public of 1WTC are actually inaccurate because they show the footprint of the building as being a parallelogram, as opposed to its actual shape of a perfect square (with chamfered corners).

You've probably seen this render, which is very unflattering for 1WTC:



This render, however, shows the site with more or less proper dimensions, and you can see more clearly the subtle "New York" elements of the tower. Most obvious to me are the angled lines that converge at the top of the tower and continue upward into a spire, which is of course something you would ever seen in any asian city. The roof also contains subtle hints to the design of the twin towers. But my favorite aspect of the tower as a whole as that it completely changes depending on what angle you look at it. It appears to be fatter and somewhat rounded from the angle in the render below, and straight/thin with clear triangular elements from the render above.



I think 1WTC is about as New York as you can get while still retaining a modern and international look, and aside from you, just about everyone else agrees. The entire site (with the memorial and all four towers) is meant to be taken as a whole rather than each building individually (as it's supposed to evoke a feel similar to the Statue of Liberty). It's a design that takes some getting used to looking at the renders, but I think the world is in for a big surprise when it's finished. It will assuredly be stunning and iconic when it's all finally done.
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Old June 6th, 2010, 03:05 AM   #14568
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i wish i could get an apartment on the top floors :S but that will never happen D:
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Old June 6th, 2010, 03:44 AM   #14569
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I Took this at the Jersey City 9/11 Memorial , you an see the WTC site in the distance...

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Old June 6th, 2010, 05:28 AM   #14570
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i love America and WTC 1
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Old June 6th, 2010, 05:43 AM   #14571
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Quote:
Originally Posted by albatrosspro View Post
Anyone else not so thrilled about this? I'm a new poster here, and just from what I've seen posters seem to fall into two categories: technical people and casual fanboys. Either you post lots of specs and discuss them, or you say things like "Ohhhhh I can't wait to see it!" as if any new, big project is a good one. Maybe I'm missing something, but I feel like we should be thinking harder on a stylistic/aesthetic/architectural level.

My deal with this tower is that it seems to fall into most of the pitfalls of 21st Century supertall architectural without having many of the merits. In the 50s and 60s we had an "International Style", i.e. buildings that basically have nothing to do with their particular cites-- many people find these to be generally the least interesting (and ugliest) buildings in the modern skyline. In my opinion, that International Style isn't half as International as new trends we get. Basically, to be "creative" today all you need is a few elements: glass, steel, and angles. Almost any combination will do. I think some people are immediately drawn to this because it's looks modern or postmodern almost in a graphic novel kind of way, but it carries a huge huge downside. Basically, take a really close look at the new design and decide if you think something about it screams NEW YORK. I don't. Look at the Empire State Building-- that, for sure, screams New York and did as well in the 1930s. Look at the more recent Citicorp Bldg., I would argue that that also seems like a New York kind of place. Hell, even the UN Secretariat. Hindsight is always nice in determining what is New York and what isn't, but I think you can actually find objective criteria for this. Even the old Twin Towers didn't really have analogues elsewhere in the world. Now, again, look at this one. I could see it in Hong Kong, Singapore, somewhere else in Asia, maybe even a European city. Someone, please, how is this design indigenous to New York? How is it not simply the product of an international design team with an international aesthetic? For a project with this historical importance and symbolism, this matters more than ever.

A couple things: 1) I have somewhat overstated my case to get a response... I don't hate it quite that much, 2) This was by no means the worst proposal I saw.
empire state building was the tallest when it was built. that's what was 'screaming new york' im sure it would have screamed the name of wherever it was built like a cheap *****. and the only reason you think it symbolizes nyc now is because it's been there for 80 years. you don't see the same architecture because asians and europeans weren't building supertalls back in the day.
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Old June 6th, 2010, 06:11 AM   #14572
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i look at all the supertalls going up in dubai and then i look at the renders of this and the thought "qaulity, not qauntity" so comes to mind. for me, this is the most iconic building going up in the world at the moment and the design is so timeless, that it will continue to be a New York, an American, a World icon for its entire existance. And that doesnt even taken into account what this building and the site that its on represents.
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Old June 6th, 2010, 10:53 AM   #14573
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I believe that the design of the WTC1 is the best they could choose. It looks like as if there are 2 towers inside of 1 and blend their lines, so it is a fitting tribute to the old wtc towers.
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Old June 6th, 2010, 11:58 AM   #14574
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spiller9 View Post
for me, this is the most iconic building going up in the world at the moment and the design is so timeless, that it will continue to be a New York, an American, a World icon for its entire existance.
It fits well into NYC and a lot of other designs would have looked alien there, but i don't see how one could in all honesty consider it the most iconic on the global stage.

Something like the Shanghai Tower with its fluid generative modeling approach seems far more like an icon of the 21st century cityscape to me.
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Old June 6th, 2010, 04:40 PM   #14575
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SirAdrian View Post
It fits well into NYC and a lot of other designs would have looked alien there, but i don't see how one could in all honesty consider it the most iconic on the global stage.

Something like the Shanghai Tower with its fluid generative modeling approach seems far more like an icon of the 21st century cityscape to me.
Shanghai tower is not a timeless design though, as you said so yourself, it fits into the 21st century. A timeless design is exactly that, it doesn't scream 21st century or art deco and so forth. It is infinitely more relevant as a result, and acknowledging what the structure does represent makes it all the more iconic. Ask someone who is not an achitectural enthusiast what the Burj Kalifa is and they'll tell you it's the tallest building in the world. Ask them what the freedom tower is and they'll tell you it's in NYC, the world trade centre rebuilt. Ask them what the Shanghai Tower is and the chances of them actually knowing what you are specifically referring to are far less.
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Old June 6th, 2010, 05:18 PM   #14576
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Ask them what the Shanghai Tower is and the chances of them actually knowing what you are specifically referring to are far less.
you know what might make st famous?

what if they built it, somebody blows it up, then they rebuild another one? is it going to be a 'timeless icon' then? lol?
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Old June 6th, 2010, 05:30 PM   #14577
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incredibly disrespectful. ******* worthless troll
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Old June 6th, 2010, 05:39 PM   #14578
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But he's right. People mostly consider owtc so iconic becouse of the place it will be build, and becouse of the history related to it.
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Old June 6th, 2010, 05:42 PM   #14579
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incredibly disrespectful. ******* worthless troll
are you retarded who am i disrespecting
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Old June 6th, 2010, 05:58 PM   #14580
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spiller9 View Post
Shanghai tower is not a timeless design though, as you said so yourself, it fits into the 21st century. A timeless design is exactly that, it doesn't scream 21st century or art deco and so forth. It is infinitely more relevant as a result, and acknowledging what the structure does represent makes it all the more iconic. Ask someone who is not an achitectural enthusiast what the Burj Kalifa is and they'll tell you it's the tallest building in the world. Ask them what the freedom tower is and they'll tell you it's in NYC, the world trade centre rebuilt. Ask them what the Shanghai Tower is and the chances of them actually knowing what you are specifically referring to are far less.
I disagree with what you say about the Shanghai Tower.

It may not be well known now, but once it's complete, regardless of whether it'll be the 3rd or 2nd tallest won't matter, people will remember it for the stunning design for yes, the 21st century and it will be a timeless nonetheless in one of the world's most well known and respected cities Shanghai. People's opinion on one side of the earth are those of THIER OWN and don't reflect on what the world populous think or say.

IMO, 1WTC and Shanghai Tower are both suited for thier locations and classy in 2 world mega cities.

Back to the 1WTC thread now.

Last edited by Myster E; June 6th, 2010 at 06:06 PM. Reason: uneccessary language!
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