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Old July 31st, 2012, 06:04 AM   #2361
YU-AMC
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I wonder if anyone is going to get the boot once Turkish Airlines expand in YYZ. There is just too much capacity over the winter months from YYZ-Europe.
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Old July 31st, 2012, 10:23 AM   #2362
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YU-AMC View Post
I wonder if anyone is going to get the boot once Turkish Airlines expand in YYZ. There is just too much capacity over the winter months from YYZ-Europe.
Turkey is a bit too far for connection flights to Europe though is it? At least from Europe we don't really have the Turkish Airlines option of connecting through Istanbul to Toronto.
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Old July 31st, 2012, 04:49 PM   #2363
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Turkey is a bit too far for connection flights to Europe though is it? At least from Europe we don't really have the Turkish Airlines option of connecting through Istanbul to Toronto.
Yeah but they have a strong feed from middle eastern airports such as Tehran, Beirut and so on. On the other hand if you look at Austrian, they tend to go after central and eastern Europe. That's why they cut down during the winter months. Also if the price is right, I am confident that people will backtrack, especially from poorer parts of Europe.
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Old July 31st, 2012, 10:34 PM   #2364
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Originally Posted by YU-AMC View Post
Yeah but they have a strong feed from middle eastern airports such as Tehran, Beirut and so on. On the other hand if you look at Austrian, they tend to go after central and eastern Europe. That's why they cut down during the winter months. Also if the price is right, I am confident that people will backtrack, especially from poorer parts of Europe.
I see. I was thinking of India initially but I overlooked the middle eastern airports. Maybe because I was thinking of the jumbo EK I always see when I arrive in Toronto lol.

AC reduced the frequencies for many winter flights too including CPH, making it so hard to pick the dates for a direct flight!
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Old August 1st, 2012, 02:05 AM   #2365
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I see. I was thinking of India initially but I overlooked the middle eastern airports. Maybe because I was thinking of the jumbo EK I always see when I arrive in Toronto lol.

AC reduced the frequencies for many winter flights too including CPH, making it so hard to pick the dates for a direct flight!
Before Turkish arrived here, there was Olympic and at that time Yugoslav JAT to snag those middle eastern markets. Once JAT pulled out due to embargo, Olimpic went after M/E airports, but they axed YYZ as well due to greek crisis. Now you have Alitalia and Turkish. When I was on Alitalia flight, I saw many M/E pax. Once old Alitalia went bust, they decided to go after bigger markets. (That proved good for them because eastern Europe is saturated with Star/german carriers). There is gonna be a nice slack of pax for some time to come due to political issues in that region and luck of direct links to Usa and Canada. A few years ago there was some talk on Air Canada flying to Beirut from YUL, but I highy doubt if there was any truth in that. Beirut had just over 5Mil traffic two years ago, so I doubt AC would bother.

I am not too sure abour Noric markets, but I heard from airliners that Air Canada always had decent loads but yields were poor. Probably smaller markets, otherwise Air Transat would tap in as well.
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Old August 1st, 2012, 08:46 AM   #2366
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Good point! I usually take AC so I haven't been connecting through most other airports, but it makes a lot of sense. And would Turkish serves the Greek market as well? There is a big Greek community in Toronto no?

The Nordic market is a low yield one you are absolutely right. I have flown CPN.YYZ a few times since it restarted a few years back and the load is very good for the most part even in winters. Planes are usually quite full but I do fly around holiday seasons. I do hope AC continues to fly here though since flying Air Transit may not be as comfortable for an 8 hours flight lol.
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Old August 2nd, 2012, 05:15 AM   #2367
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Equario View Post

Thanks for updates
Btw I think Aerosvit bumped YYZ to a second weekly on Monday.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yojimbo View Post
Good point! I usually take AC so I haven't been connecting through most other airports, but it makes a lot of sense. And would Turkish serves the Greek market as well? There is a big Greek community in Toronto no?

The Nordic market is a low yield one you are absolutely right. I have flown CPN.YYZ a few times since it restarted a few years back and the load is very good for the most part even in winters. Planes are usually quite full but I do fly around holiday seasons. I do hope AC continues to fly here though since flying Air Transit may not be as comfortable for an 8 hours flight lol.

I think it's 50/50. They connect in the winter via Europe, but during the summer Air Canada and AirTransat fly to Athens on a seasonal basis.
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Old August 2nd, 2012, 05:38 AM   #2368
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Here not that long ago.....

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Old August 2nd, 2012, 10:54 AM   #2369
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Quote:
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Before Turkish arrived here, there was Olympic and at that time Yugoslav JAT to snag those middle eastern markets. Once JAT pulled out due to embargo, Olimpic went after M/E airports, but they axed YYZ as well due to greek crisis.
OA axed YYZ and YUL long before the fiscal crisis. OA was a badly-run company (at least from the 1980s and onwards), and they gradually dropped all their long-haul routes throughout the 2000-2010 decade, as they were searching for investors for privatization. Thing is, OA management had a very outdated mentality on what the goals of the company should be in the 21st century, and that did them in. In 1970, OA was the country's "flying ambassador" and all that fun stuff from yesteryear; but by the 1990s and 2000s, tourists were flying into Greece by charter and LCCs like Thompson Airways, easyJet, TUIfly, Transavia, etc, and were flying directly from their home cities (London, Manchester, Glasgow, Hamburg, Stockholm, Malmo, Warsaw, Budapest, etc) straight to Greece's regional airports (CHQ, HER, RHO, KGS, CFU, ZTH, etc), bypassing ATH (this trend is continuing today...ATH is suffering from the crisis, but the regional airports are growing). But OA still had the old, early-1970s mentality as late as the 1990s and even into the 2000s, focusing on tourism and the diaspora (a losing move....bad bad business move), while the booming Middle East was right under their noses.

Air Canada and Air Transat have since picked up the YUL-ATH and YYZ-ATH routes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yojimbo View Post
There is a big Greek community in Toronto no?
Yes, there's a lot of Greek expats in Toronto and Montréal, but they're not going to be a huge market. It's a big misconception that's repeated over, and over again. An expat community containing maybe 60,000 people in a particular city from said country is not enough to sustain daily flights in each direction with a seating capacity of 250-300 people. The math just doesn't work out; every single member of that expat population would have to fly Greece every year, twice a year, in order to fill those seats, and that would only sustain one airline's route. And they would have to be very loyal to that airline, even if they find cheaper airfare with, say, KLM via AMS, or with BA via LHR, or -as you suggested- TK via IST. It hasn't worked for Chicago or Tampa or Melbourne (in fact, OA's MEL and SYD routes were losing money, and were being subsidized by Greek taxpayers. They were the airline's first long-haul routes to be axed when restructuring started). And to answer your question, yes TK will serve any ATH-bound passenger perfectly fine, but so do existing carriers at YYZ, like Lufthansa, KLM, Austrian, British, Air France, and Alitalia, in addition to direct flights with AC and TS, or some sort of mixed Star Alliance itinerary (like AC to MUC, then LH to ATH). So it's not like Toronto's Greek expat community is severed from Greece; they already have countless ways of getting there.

The reason AC and TS are doing well with their ATH-bound seasonal routes is because Greece is a major tourism destination; it's been a major tourism destination for Europeans for decades, but is now gaining popularity with Americans and Canadians, due in large part to growth in the cruise sector. YYZ and YUL are perfectly positioned, geographically, to connect ATH-bound travelers from all over the US and Canada, not only from Air Canada flights, but also Star Alliance partners like United. When the economy in Greece and the US returns to normal, there may be more seat capacity between ATH and USA/Canada. Delta's JFK-ATH route (currently seasonal) may become year-round; so may AC's YUL/YYZ-ATH route. UA may re-start EWR-ATH; Delta might restart ATL-ATH, and so on.

Theoretically, ATH is also a Star Alliance hub (home to Star Alliance member Aegean Airlines). MiddleEast-bound travelers from Canada could theoretically transfer at ATH, and I'm sure this happens, but it hasn't really become a major ME hub just yet. Unlike mismanaged Olympic, Aegean is a very cautious and very conservative airline; they're very gradually growing their Middle East and European networks.
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Last edited by skyduster; August 2nd, 2012 at 12:05 PM.
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Old August 3rd, 2012, 03:10 AM   #2370
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Yeah man, you could see that OA was messed up beyond repair. IMHO I think an A340-300 was simply too big for all year around service. They should have gone for a A330 or a newer B767-400ER. I also heard that Airbus swtich from Boeing was politically driven. Any truth in that?
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Old August 5th, 2012, 07:24 AM   #2371
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ET by Nino B.

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Old August 6th, 2012, 11:56 PM   #2372
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Awesome!
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Old August 10th, 2012, 05:07 AM   #2373
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Btw I saw Emirates take off on Wednesday around 10pm. It made a circle towards Barrie and back to the airport. Is that their flight path? I forgot to track the flight just to see what went on. Any clue?
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Old August 19th, 2012, 09:44 PM   #2374
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A sub or scheduled? A330 shows often on a flighttracker, but some B763 still come up. Looks like we may get AZ A330 before they announced it.

Aug 9th 2012.
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Old August 20th, 2012, 03:20 AM   #2375
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You hoped that Alitalia does not send that 330 to YYZ, otherwise .... Good luck with EI-DIP (or EI-DIR).....
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Old August 20th, 2012, 03:24 AM   #2376
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gino lo spazzino View Post
You hoped that Alitalia does not send that 330 to YYZ, otherwise .... Good luck with EI-DIP (or EI-DIR).....
I am confused...

In the database it comes as a 13 year old frame..... Do older Airbus A330s come with external cameras as newer types? I think they are going to send us a brand new plane as of early October. That's a former Canada 3000 bird.
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Old August 20th, 2012, 03:49 AM   #2377
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Originally Posted by YU-AMC View Post
I am confused...

In the database it comes as a 13 year old frame..... Do older Airbus A330s come with external cameras as newer types? I think they are going to send us a brand new plane as of early October. That's a former Canada 3000 bird.
No, EI-DIP and EI-DIR haven't got the PTV and, at the same time, the external cameras...
These A330 are the wrost in Alitalia A330 fleet, they are always broken (the last problem dates a week ago to cart after takeoff from Boston, with emergency landing in New York, this was EI-DIP)

However, i also think that Alitalia send at YYZ the new A330

P.S I posted a photo of the interior of EI-DIR and EI-DIP:

[IMG]http://i46.************/2nsurur.jpg[/IMG]
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Old August 20th, 2012, 04:06 AM   #2378
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No, EI-DIP and EI-DIR haven't got the PTV and, at the same time, the external cameras...
These A330 are the wrost in Alitalia A330 fleet, they are always broken (the last problem dates a week ago to cart after takeoff from Boston, with emergency landing in New York, this was EI-DIP)

However, i also think that Alitalia send at YYZ the new A330

P.S I posted a photo of the interior of EI-DIR and EI-DIP:

[IMG]http://i46.************/2nsururjpg[/IMG]
Thanks for the info. I am going to ask them at the airport. On Aliatlia website they are showing new A330 with new seats and premium economy. Also Aliatlia's premium economy is pricey when I compare it to Turkish premium economy. $200-$400 dollars difference in favour of Turkish airlines.

Btw what plans they have for these older A330s? I am looking for a winter 2012/2013 Aliatlia to YYZ time table. How many days are they going to serve YYZ from FCO in the Winter.
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Old August 20th, 2012, 04:23 AM   #2379
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I think the older B736-300ERs tend to break down often. Here is a sub aircraft on 29th June.
http://www.airliners.net/photo/Alita...03bb6ddd0f6995

Alitalia already sold the newer 767 ones. I wish JAT bought a few of them.
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Old August 20th, 2012, 04:45 AM   #2380
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YU-AMC View Post
Thanks for the info. I am going to ask them at the airport. On Aliatlia website they are showing new A330 with new seats and premium economy. Also Aliatlia's premium economy is pricey when I compare it to Turkish premium economy. $200-$400 dollars difference in favour of Turkish airlines.
Turkish Airlines has a very competitive prices but i find very uncomfortable a stopover in IST to come to Italy

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Originally Posted by YU-AMC View Post
Btw what plans they have for these older A330s?
EI-DIP and EI-DIR should go to phase out from april 2013....

Quote:
Originally Posted by YU-AMC View Post
I am looking for a winter 2012/2013 Aliatlia to YYZ time table. How many days are they going to serve YYZ from FCO in the Winter.
The flight is daily and is scheduled with thw old A330 until 27 october, from 28 october is scheduled with the new 330

Last edited by gino lo spazzino; August 20th, 2012 at 04:58 AM.
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