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Old December 31st, 2012, 11:04 PM   #2761
hkskyline
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You need a strong business clientele filling up premium seats to make an ultra long-haul work. Domestic helpers are not going to be paying those premium fares. A full plane is not the same as a profitable one.
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Old December 31st, 2012, 11:13 PM   #2762
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Quote:
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You need a strong business clientele filling up premium seats to make an ultra long-haul work. Domestic helpers are not going to be paying those premium fares. A full plane is not the same as a profitable one.
That's the hard reality. Perhaps changes in policy in my home country is desperately needed to lure even more business travelers and invest more in the Philippines. Yet, I still find PAL doing a great effort in bridging the huge divide in services between the West Coast and the Eastern Seaboard. Perhaps a stronger and friendlier business climate in my country will do wonders, as well as increasing wages and making jobs more attractive to locals.
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Old December 31st, 2012, 11:57 PM   #2763
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I would probably say it's probably because of competition with Air Canada on that route, plus the Latin American community in Canada is also relatively small in comparison with the US so it does not leave much room for other cariers to serve the market.
It's not necessarily about the size of the community when considering a hub. AC's strategy with South America in addition to serving the local market is to funnel Asian, US, and European traffic through YYZ to SCL and GRU, etc. When I took AC's flight to SCL, more than half the flight seemed to be connecting European traffic from France and other western European countries. There was also a sizeable contingent of Asian pax carrying foreign passports.

As an aside, COPA is starting service to YYZ next year from Cartegna. Here is the link from some time ago.

http://colombiareports.com/travel-in...uk-canada.html

Last edited by ACT7; January 1st, 2013 at 12:03 AM.
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Old January 1st, 2013, 12:41 AM   #2764
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Perhaps it explains YYZ's extensive connections to Europe and South America... But I think MIA does a similar job, with much more connections.
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Old January 1st, 2013, 01:00 AM   #2765
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Perhaps it explains YYZ's extensive connections to Europe and South America... But I think MIA does a similar job, with much more connections.
I don't think MIA's European network is nearly as extensive as YYZ's. Of course MIA has more service to South America than any NA airport. That's a factor of both expat population and proximity.
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Old January 1st, 2013, 01:36 AM   #2766
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I don't think MIA's European network is nearly as extensive as YYZ's. Of course MIA has more service to South America than any NA airport. That's a factor of both expat population and proximity.
That's the big irony... MIA has an extensive Latin American and Caribbean network that makes me wonder why not direct flights via MIA where an abundance of such flights is available?
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Old January 1st, 2013, 09:23 PM   #2767
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hkskyline View Post
You need a strong business clientele filling up premium seats to make an ultra long-haul work. Domestic helpers are not going to be paying those premium fares. A full plane is not the same as a profitable one.
Right on! These days, they probably need to sell some pricey seats on a 757 to be profitable over the atlantic. So called the short hops operating "thin" routes with very limited profit margins.
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Old January 1st, 2013, 11:09 PM   #2768
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That's the big irony... MIA has an extensive Latin American and Caribbean network that makes me wonder why not direct flights via MIA where an abundance of such flights is available?
Actually MIA does have a sizable European network as well thanks to it's status as a major tourism destination and being a major airline hub, it's just not to the same extent of YYZ, since you have more charters and less mainline carriers.
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Old January 1st, 2013, 11:21 PM   #2769
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Un-frickin'-believable! 2013 is shaping up to be an awesome year at YYZ!
Hmm yes and no. If you look at the late 1980s, I still think we are missing some 747s . I am not sure if we could get a few more 747s and one more A380, but if we do, at that point we can relax for a bit.
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Old January 1st, 2013, 11:45 PM   #2770
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Quote:
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Actually MIA does have a sizable European network as well thanks to it's status as a major tourism destination and being a major airline hub, it's just not to the same extent of YYZ, since you have more charters and less mainline carriers.
Interesting. And MIA is closer to Chile and most Latin American and Caribbean countries than Canada, so it is naturally a major air hub into itself. Perhaps JFK and YYZ share their roles as major air hubs for the northern part of the US and southern part of eastern Canada, respectively.
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Old January 2nd, 2013, 12:00 AM   #2771
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Hmm yes and no. If you look at the late 1980s, I still think we are missing some 747s . I am not sure if we could get a few more 747s and one more A380, but if we do, at that point we can relax for a bit.
But since then the world's changed. Back in the 80s many airlines flew one (or two) 747 per week to YYZ to serve their immigrant communities here. Now the emphasis is more frequent service and higher yields thanks to airline alliances and freer markets. TBH it's doubtful YYZ can receive more than five airlines with 747-8 and 380. Even Air Canada has no plans for either.
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Old January 2nd, 2013, 12:05 AM   #2772
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I think YYZ should contend with more B777s flying in and out of the airport. Those are quieter than the 747s, and besides, those burn less fuel than the B747 or A380 to begin with.
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Old January 2nd, 2013, 02:29 AM   #2773
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Well, we have a regular KLM 747, BA 747 and EVA maybe? LH used to send their 747s not long ago, but they wanted to support the A340 program.
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Old January 2nd, 2013, 02:31 AM   #2774
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Hmm yes and no. If you look at the late 1980s, I still think we are missing some 747s . I am not sure if we could get a few more 747s and one more A380, but if we do, at that point we can relax for a bit.
Etihad will most likely fly a 380 to YYZ for sure, maybe BA to.
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Old January 2nd, 2013, 02:33 AM   #2775
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Etihad will most likely fly a 380 to YYZ for sure, maybe BA to.
Yeah sounds pretty realistic, so I would not say it's a long shot to get five super jambos to YYZ.
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Old January 2nd, 2013, 02:34 AM   #2776
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Well, we have a regular KLM 747, BA 747 and EVA maybe? LH used to send their 747s not long ago, but they wanted to support the A340 program.
EVA Air operates their B77Ws to YYZ. Their B744s (and their B74Es -- meaning the one with a cargo combo at the rear) are mostly used on their short-haul, heavy-load routes from TPE like HKG, MNL, and occasionally BKK. And their B744s are slowly being retired to make way for the A332s and B77Ws.
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Old January 2nd, 2013, 02:35 AM   #2777
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Etihad will most likely fly a 380 to YYZ for sure, maybe BA to.
As of the moment, Etihad does not operate any A380s... It still has their B77Ws and A346s.
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Old January 2nd, 2013, 02:36 AM   #2778
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EVA Air operates their B77Ws to YYZ. Their B744s (and their B74Es -- meaning the one with a cargo combo at the rear) are mostly used on their short-haul, heavy-load routes from TPE like HKG, MNL, and occasionally BKK. And their B744s are slowly being retired to make way for the A332s and B77Ws.
I was not sure. Yeah Toronto is mostly B777 playground, but they are still amazing to spot. I love their wings.
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Old January 2nd, 2013, 02:42 AM   #2779
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Mhmm. But are the Embraers and CRJs great-looking aircraft too to spot at YYZ?
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Old January 2nd, 2013, 02:51 AM   #2780
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Mhmm. But are the Embraers and CRJs great-looking aircraft too to spot at YYZ?
I tend to find the CRJs very thin and sexy looking. The Embraers do look a bit funny for some reason. I suppose the smaller winglets look unique on them. It's canadian vs brazilian product, but I think the Embraers are selling better lately.
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