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Old January 22nd, 2013, 11:18 PM   #2881
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Seems that AC still has really big control over the transborder market.
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Old January 23rd, 2013, 01:23 AM   #2882
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ACT7 View Post
United really can't seem to make this route work...

http://airlineroute.net/2013/01/22/ua-sfoyyz-s13cxld/
Well, that trip could be replaced with an additional AC flight since YYZ-SFO is a multiple-daily service.

And by the way, looks like AC is canceling another US route from YYZ... from 1 March 2013, Air Canada will end its 10-weekly Toronto - Providence (RI) route. Current schedule:

AC7282 YYZ0915 – 1103PVD BEH x267
AC7284 YYZ1545 – 1733PVD BEH x6

AC7285 PVD1125 – 1343YYZ BEH x267
AC7283 PVD1815 – 2033YYZ BEH x6

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Old January 23rd, 2013, 01:25 AM   #2883
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As for LOT Polish Airlines' B787 service to Toronto, it looks like the launch will be delayed until at least 8 February 2013 (previously to start 1 February). While it is suspended, B767-300ERs will operate on this route.

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Old January 23rd, 2013, 07:11 AM   #2884
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^That's not too bad, but I think those 736ERs are on their last legs.
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Old January 23rd, 2013, 08:18 AM   #2885
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Maybe, maybe not. If LO resumes its 787 services, will there be a possibility that the Polish carrier will operate another type of aircraft to expand its long-haul services even further? I mean, for Toronto, it's great to see LOT operate the Dreamliner, but I mean, do you want to see the airline operate like an A330 too?
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Old January 23rd, 2013, 08:32 AM   #2886
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fieldsofdreams View Post
Maybe, maybe not. If LO resumes its 787 services, will there be a possibility that the Polish carrier will operate another type of aircraft to expand its long-haul services even further? I mean, for Toronto, it's great to see LOT operate the Dreamliner, but I mean, do you want to see the airline operate like an A330 too?
Hmm I could be wrong, but I think two types such as B788 and A330 would be too much of a bite for LOT. I was just reading on airliners that they want to downsize and just stick with the E-jets. Also LOT has been flying to YYZ since the 70s and 80s as JAT during the good days, but I doubt if they can fill anything bigger than a 250 seater. Yeah, the loads are there in the summer, but in the wintertime it's very slow. A part from that, I don't see too many widebody birds in WAW other than LO and EK just starting WAW. So I would love to see them expand, but we also have to wait and see.
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Old January 23rd, 2013, 09:33 AM   #2887
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Old January 23rd, 2013, 04:53 PM   #2888
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fieldsofdreams View Post
Maybe, maybe not. If LO resumes its 787 services, will there be a possibility that the Polish carrier will operate another type of aircraft to expand its long-haul services even further? I mean, for Toronto, it's great to see LOT operate the Dreamliner, but I mean, do you want to see the airline operate like an A330 too?
Just be thankful if you even get a LOT 787 at YYZ at all. LOT is in serious financial trouble and just recently received a bailout from the government since LOT is in fact government owned. With that comes the EU investigating as to whether or not it is a subsidy. If it is, many feel that that will be the last nail in the coffin for LOT. LOT is currently looking into turning over most of its European routes and aircraft (and government contributions) to EuroLOT which now exists as a seperate entity but once again is owned by the Polish government. Notice the pattern of stupidity. The arrangement would be similar to Air Canada and Jazz whereas LOT will buy and sell seats on EuroLOT's aircraft. LOT has had something like 7 CEO's in 9 years and has "embarked" upon privatization since the 1990's.

Ryanair, Wizz Air and Lufthansa are and will continue to cannibalize the Polish market where business travellers are few and far between. As we all know this is the bread and butter of airlines. If LOT goes under, i am hoping AC or Rouge throws a 763 on a YYZ-WAW route.
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Old January 23rd, 2013, 11:57 PM   #2889
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hkskyline View Post
Great.
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Old January 24th, 2013, 12:14 AM   #2890
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LO 044 View Post
Just be thankful if you even get a LOT 787 at YYZ at all. LOT is in serious financial trouble and just recently received a bailout from the government since LOT is in fact government owned. With that comes the EU investigating as to whether or not it is a subsidy. If it is, many feel that that will be the last nail in the coffin for LOT. LOT is currently looking into turning over most of its European routes and aircraft (and government contributions) to EuroLOT which now exists as a seperate entity but once again is owned by the Polish government. Notice the pattern of stupidity. The arrangement would be similar to Air Canada and Jazz whereas LOT will buy and sell seats on EuroLOT's aircraft. LOT has had something like 7 CEO's in 9 years and has "embarked" upon privatization since the 1990's.

Ryanair, Wizz Air and Lufthansa are and will continue to cannibalize the Polish market where business travellers are few and far between. As we all know this is the bread and butter of airlines. If LOT goes under, i am hoping AC or Rouge throws a 763 on a YYZ-WAW route.
Sure. Perhaps either AC or Rouge can use a B767 on the YYZ-WAW route to compete with LOT. But I don't know if it's better off operating a YYZ-SVO or DME route with AC since it can be much more profitable... and from Moscow, there will be a codeshare flight for WAW.
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Old January 24th, 2013, 12:26 AM   #2891
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fieldsofdreams View Post
Sure. Perhaps either AC or Rouge can use a B767 on the YYZ-WAW route to compete with LOT. But I don't know if it's better off operating a YYZ-SVO or DME route with AC since it can be much more profitable... and from Moscow, there will be a codeshare flight for WAW.
AC codeshares on LO's flights now so why would AC compete against LO? I am saying AC may start a WAW flight if LO goes bankrupt.

Why would anyone fly to WAW via SVO? No one would backtrack, they would just connect in Germany using LH. I doubt AC will ever start a SVO flight. If it is so profitable why haven't they started one already.
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Old January 24th, 2013, 12:27 AM   #2892
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True. Sometimes, I just want to allow backtracking so that there will be more flight opportunities.

And should LOT ever be privatized, what aircraft do you think it should have... and operate to YYZ, aside from the 787?
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Old January 24th, 2013, 02:21 AM   #2893
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Two airlines flying to WAW from YYZ is a overkill. Airtransat could not make Vienna work, and VIE is at 20M pax figure. There are quite a few bigger airports out there in Europe without direct link to YYZ. Also Airtransat did try WAW back in the early 1990s. I saw a few pictures in the airliners database.
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Old January 24th, 2013, 09:14 AM   #2894
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fieldsofdreams View Post
Maybe, maybe not. If LO resumes its 787 services, will there be a possibility that the Polish carrier will operate another type of aircraft to expand its long-haul services even further? I mean, for Toronto, it's great to see LOT operate the Dreamliner, but I mean, do you want to see the airline operate like an A330 too?
The LOT/Eurolot fleet will consist of B787's/E195s/E175s/Q400/ATR42. In the long run the airline might acquire new 737s (2014 onwards).

It does not make sense to operate both the 787 & A330 as in most cases, it does not make sense to operate A320s & B737s.

LOT is looking to expand this year ti Tokyo and a few other far east destinations in the next couple of years. With the 5x 787s they will have as of 2013 they will operate the following long haul routes:

Toronto, New York, Chicago, Beijing, Tokyo.

As the fleet grows to 8 787's and eventually 14 (hopefully) perhaps we will see the long haul network grow.

Keep in mind that Eurolot will eventually have a total of 20 x Q400s. They will take over all domestic, Central as well as Eastern European destinations.

AC from YYZ to WAW maybe, but in a few years, the demand is simply not there at the moment. I heard that during the summer LOT is supposed to have 8x weekly flights.

Nevertheless, it definitely would be nice to see both AC as well as LOT operate between Warsaw and Toronto

Last edited by [email protected]; January 24th, 2013 at 09:22 AM.
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Old January 24th, 2013, 09:20 AM   #2895
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Yes, Air Transat had flight to WAW; initially via Berlin and then direct YYZ WAW. The planes were not flying empty however; I suppose Air Transat saw other opportunities elsewhere.

One huge problem was the fuel prices in WAW and Petrolot's monopoly. Today there is more than one fueling company operating in Warsaw and as a result of competition, fuel prices have dropped. Even most European carriers would avoid fueling up in WAW and would just get 'full mains' in the port of departure.

Obviously a long haul flight would have to refuel in WAW; due to the recent fuel prices it was simply too expensive. The situation has changed and in the coming few years we may see more in Warsaw than LOT, Qatar and Emirates.
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Old January 25th, 2013, 10:48 PM   #2896
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Travelling to Argentina?

For travel to Argentina on or after December 28, 2012, Canadian, U.S. and Australian citizens must pay Argentina's reciprocity fee in advance of travel by visiting Argentina's Ministry of the Interior or Provincia Pagos website.

Proof of payment (in the form of a receipt) is required upon arrival at Ministro Pistarini de Ezeiza Int. Airport (EZE) in Buenos Aires.

http://www.aircanada.com/en/news/trav_adv/121121.html
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Old January 26th, 2013, 09:04 AM   #2897
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Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
Yes, Air Transat had flight to WAW; initially via Berlin and then direct YYZ WAW. The planes were not flying empty however; I suppose Air Transat saw other opportunities elsewhere.

One huge problem was the fuel prices in WAW and Petrolot's monopoly. Today there is more than one fueling company operating in Warsaw and as a result of competition, fuel prices have dropped. Even most European carriers would avoid fueling up in WAW and would just get 'full mains' in the port of departure.

Obviously a long haul flight would have to refuel in WAW; due to the recent fuel prices it was simply too expensive. The situation has changed and in the coming few years we may see more in Warsaw than LOT, Qatar and Emirates.
Sweet man! I always wanted to know more about Airtransat and WAW. Thanks
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Old January 26th, 2013, 09:17 AM   #2898
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AirTransat will be operating the following routes from Toronto for Summer 2013 (July to August), and the following are nonstop flights. Also included are its comparisons from the previous summer (July to August 2012):

Toronto – Athens: Service reduced from 2 weekly in S12 to 1 weekly

Toronto – Barcelona: 2 weekly A310 service, replaces A310/330 mix in S12

Toronto – Birmingham: Airbus A310 replaces A330 in S12, 1 weekly service

Toronto – Exeter – Newcastle – Toronto: 1 weekly service cancelled

Toronto – Frankfurt: 4 weekly service cancelled (Previously reported)

Toronto – Glasgow: Service reduced from 6 weekly in S12 to 5 weekly, all-A310 service, replaces A310/330 mix in S12

Toronto – Lisbon: Service reduced from 4 weekly in S12 to 3 weekly

Toronto – Munich: 1 weekly service cancelled (Previously reported)

Toronto – Paris CDG: Service increases from 4 weekly in S12 to 5 weekly

Toronto – Rome: Service reduced from 7 weekly in S12 to 6 weekly

Toronto – Terceira (Azores): 1 weekly service cancelled

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Old January 26th, 2013, 08:27 PM   #2899
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I've flown LOT several times (at least 10) on the YYZ-WAW-YYZ so I have a good idea of how the service works. During the summer loads are usually very good for LOT, at least 90% full and higher due to Poles going back to visit their homeland and taking their kids vacationing to Poland. However, even during the summer loads for business class is not that great because Poles in general are cheap and prefer to gut it out in economy rather than pay twice the price for a mediocre business class on the 767, which might change with the 787. During the winter loads are not enough to sustain daily flights to YYZ, I've flown during the winter and loads were decent for the 3/4 flights a week LOT operates. Lately though LOT is having financial difficulties and if they decided to cut routes or go bankrupt, which is a possibility I would bet on AC or a rouge flying to WAW, more specially Rouge because Poles are price sensitive and just want to fly at the cheapest price to the motherland without comfort. A lot of relatives I know, including my family and I have recently started flying with LH, cheaper prices for the most part and the flying experience is better, including an a340-600 during summer! The grounding of the 787 has hurt LOT, they have a 787 stuck in ORD since the first flight, they retired one or two 767s with the expectation that the 787s would be flying without issue and I've heard from a source that they are discussing whether it makes sense to take the 3 other 787s that are to be delivered in the future if their situation does not turn around.
Sorry for the long post but I had to have my two cents!
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Old January 26th, 2013, 08:52 PM   #2900
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Very interesting perspective from you on LOT. Perhaps it's time for LOT to reevaluate its position and see if it can be saved by privatization... Let's hope that it won't wound up like what happened with VARIG.
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