daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Airports and Aviation > Airports

Airports discussions about existing airports



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old July 13th, 2013, 02:17 AM   #3181
ACT7
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,402
Likes (Received): 77

Quote:
Originally Posted by noir-dresses View Post
No square meters, that's how huge this airport's retail will be. Don't forget all the floor space on this build will be interconnected.
So the retail component alone will be almost 10 times larger than ALL of YYZ T1?? That doesn't sound right.
ACT7 no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old July 13th, 2013, 03:45 AM   #3182
ACT7
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,402
Likes (Received): 77

Quote:
Originally Posted by hkskyline View Post
Well, Dubai's business model is far different. They survive on transit passengers, who are stuck at the airport for a few hours each waiting for their next flight. Naturally, shopping would be a great thing to do in the meantime. Toronto is not a transit-oriented airport. Unless the government is willing to forgo the import allowance for travelers on these purchases, there is little incentive for passengers to make a huge shopping run at the airport.
I disagree with that. LHR is almost exclusively O&D passengers (something like 80%). YYZ is about 60% O&D. Now I'm not necessarily comparing the two airports as such, but connecting passengers is not really the issue. I think it simply comes down to shitty management at YYZ (historically anyway) that didn't see any opportunity in proper retail concessions.

Also, your argument implies that YVR has more connecting traffic than YYZ which is clearly not the case. Yet there is a Desigual store, Lacoste, Hermes, Brooks Brothers, Victoria's Secret, as well as MCM and Etro corners.
ACT7 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 13th, 2013, 06:50 AM   #3183
hkskyline
Hong Kong
 
hkskyline's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 86,889
Likes (Received): 18157

Quote:
Originally Posted by ACT7 View Post
I disagree with that. LHR is almost exclusively O&D passengers (something like 80%). YYZ is about 60% O&D. Now I'm not necessarily comparing the two airports as such, but connecting passengers is not really the issue. I think it simply comes down to shitty management at YYZ (historically anyway) that didn't see any opportunity in proper retail concessions.

Also, your argument implies that YVR has more connecting traffic than YYZ which is clearly not the case. Yet there is a Desigual store, Lacoste, Hermes, Brooks Brothers, Victoria's Secret, as well as MCM and Etro corners.
Are they making money though? Vancouver is nowhere near the top 10 duty-free airports. You can build all the retail you want, but it won't matter if they don't take in the dough.

In 2012, Heathrow's transfer traffic accounted for 37% of its total traffic.

http://www.heathrowairport.com/about...ts-and-figures
__________________
Hong Kong Photo Gallery - Click Here for the Hong Kong Galleries

World Photo Gallery - | St. Petersburg, Russia | Pyongyang | Tokyo | Istanbul | Dubai | Shanghai | Mumbai | Bangkok | Sydney

New York, London, Prague, Iceland, Rocky Mountains, Angkor Wat, Sri Lanka, Poland, Myanmar, and much more!
hkskyline no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 15th, 2013, 01:16 AM   #3184
ACT7
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,402
Likes (Received): 77

Quote:
Originally Posted by hkskyline View Post
Are they making money though? Vancouver is nowhere near the top 10 duty-free airports. You can build all the retail you want, but it won't matter if they don't take in the dough.

In 2012, Heathrow's transfer traffic accounted for 37% of its total traffic.

http://www.heathrowairport.com/about...ts-and-figures
I have no idea, that's why it's so surprising that YVR has much more, and better, retail than YYZ. I personally haven't seen a single person in any of those stores at YVR. Lacoste and Desigual are in the domestic concourse and they are always empty from what I've seen.

So if LHR had 37% transfer traffic, it's about the same as YYZ.
ACT7 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 15th, 2013, 05:22 AM   #3185
deasine
=)
 
deasine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 2,452
Likes (Received): 57

The answer boils down to the company operating the airport, and whether or not they value concession revenue. YVR has been trying to work on this and is even working with a European Outlet company to develop an outlet off its lands near the airport. So really at the end of the day, it boils down to whether or not the operator wants to venture into this kind of business.
deasine no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 15th, 2013, 07:29 AM   #3186
ACT7
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,402
Likes (Received): 77

Quote:
Originally Posted by deasine View Post
The answer boils down to the company operating the airport, and whether or not they value concession revenue. YVR has been trying to work on this and is even working with a European Outlet company to develop an outlet off its lands near the airport. So really at the end of the day, it boils down to whether or not the operator wants to venture into this kind of business.
I agree. And my original point was that YYZ management seriously dropped the ball in a big way when it came to retail concessions. The new GTAA management has made some nice restaurant improvements and this latest announcement from Nuance is promising but I'll believe it when I see it. It boggles the mind, still, that it's been so crappy for so long.
ACT7 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 15th, 2013, 09:20 PM   #3187
Kuba116
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 86
Likes (Received): 24

Quote:
Originally Posted by ACT7 View Post
I forgot to mention - I was on one the YYZ airport tours a few weeks ago and the host mentioned that both BA and AF are in talks with the airport to start flying their A380's once the T3 redevelopment is complete. AF, apparently, would have started already if there were A380-compatible gates at T3.
This is false; Air France downgraded from the 747-400 to the 777-200ER which has way fewer seats, I'm not even sure if they send the A380 to Montreal anymore. BA is starting 787 service so I doubt they'll start A380 as well unless they offer one daily flight to YYZ which I don't see them doing.
Kuba116 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 15th, 2013, 09:25 PM   #3188
Kuba116
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 86
Likes (Received): 24












Recently flew out of YYZ:







My aircraft pulling into the gate:




Home a few weeks later:




Me a few weeks back waiting for LH470:
Kuba116 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 16th, 2013, 06:42 PM   #3189
ACT7
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,402
Likes (Received): 77

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuba116 View Post
This is false; Air France downgraded from the 747-400 to the 777-200ER which has way fewer seats, I'm not even sure if they send the A380 to Montreal anymore. BA is starting 787 service so I doubt they'll start A380 as well unless they offer one daily flight to YYZ which I don't see them doing.
I'm repeating what the guy told everyone so I'm not sure you can say outright that it's false. I think he would know a little more than you or I. Nor did he say it would have been a daily A380 service for either airline anyway.

Last edited by ACT7; July 16th, 2013 at 06:50 PM.
ACT7 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 16th, 2013, 08:57 PM   #3190
GTR66
GTR66
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 1,274
Likes (Received): 312

I agree with Kuba116 BA probably will wont send the A380 to YYZ. BA will send it if they cant fit the A380 anywhere else in their route system which is highly unlikely. They only have 12 A380s on order and I am sure BA will put the A380 where it will work and YYZ will not work. AF on the other hand may or may not. If Montreal doesn't work then why would YYZ? They have more A380s coming out of the factory. BA's 787 will work just fine in YYZ.
GTR66 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 17th, 2013, 04:52 AM   #3191
hkskyline
Hong Kong
 
hkskyline's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 86,889
Likes (Received): 18157

From BA's A380 website (http://www.britishairways.com/en-gb/...on/airbus-a380) :

The world’s largest passenger airliner will soon be flying for British Airways between London Heathrow, Los Angeles, and Hong Kong.
__________________
Hong Kong Photo Gallery - Click Here for the Hong Kong Galleries

World Photo Gallery - | St. Petersburg, Russia | Pyongyang | Tokyo | Istanbul | Dubai | Shanghai | Mumbai | Bangkok | Sydney

New York, London, Prague, Iceland, Rocky Mountains, Angkor Wat, Sri Lanka, Poland, Myanmar, and much more!
hkskyline no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 17th, 2013, 06:36 AM   #3192
ACT7
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,402
Likes (Received): 77

Wow, okay. I think people are taking this a bit out of context. No one said it would be their first route, a daily route, or a guaranteed route. It's not inconceivable that BA could send their A380 to YYZ - just because it hasn't already been announced doesn't mean it's not a possibility.

And AF pulling their A380 out of YUL may have had more to with yields than loads. YUL isn't exactly premium traffic, it's mainly VFR traffic between YUL and CDG.
ACT7 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 17th, 2013, 07:54 AM   #3193
romantic_guy08
Captain, S.S. Love Boat
 
romantic_guy08's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: S.S. Love Boat
Posts: 1,386
Likes (Received): 395

Philippine Airlines Cancels Toronto Service from mid-September 2013
by JL

Update at 0420GMT 17JUL13

Philippine Airlines from 18SEP13 is cancelling operations to Toronto, just nearly 10 months after launching this route. The airline currently operates Boeing 777-300ER aircraft on Manila – Vancouver – Toronto 3 times a week. The airline earlier this year planned to increase operation to Toronto from 3 weekly to daily from 17JAN13.

Reservation for Toronto service on/after 18SEP13 is now closed, however PR continues to operate daily Manila – Vancouver service, based on current inventory listing. Existing Toronto schedule as follow.

PR118 MNL1515 – 1215YVR1345 – 2105YYZ 77W 357
PR119 YYZ2235 – 0025+1YVR0140+1 – 0610+2MNL 77W 357
romantic_guy08 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 17th, 2013, 04:19 PM   #3194
Filip
Torontonian 4ever
 
Filip's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Toronto
Posts: 9,891
Likes (Received): 435

Figured that long, thin route wouldn't last.

Shame though.
Filip no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 17th, 2013, 07:13 PM   #3195
ACT7
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,402
Likes (Received): 77

That sucks. Oh well, I agree with Filip, the yields probably sucked on that route.

Last edited by ACT7; July 17th, 2013 at 07:19 PM.
ACT7 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 18th, 2013, 06:03 AM   #3196
romantic_guy08
Captain, S.S. Love Boat
 
romantic_guy08's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: S.S. Love Boat
Posts: 1,386
Likes (Received): 395

Quote:
Originally Posted by ACT7 View Post
That sucks. Oh well, I agree with Filip, the yields probably sucked on that route.
PAL is also realigning its metals, esp. the 77Ws to Europe.
romantic_guy08 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 18th, 2013, 05:10 PM   #3197
Filip
Torontonian 4ever
 
Filip's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Toronto
Posts: 9,891
Likes (Received): 435

Quote:
Originally Posted by romantic_guy08 View Post
PAL is also realigning its metals, esp. the 77Ws to Europe.
It's not really surprising... PAL is not in an alliance, Manila is not a particularly strong business hub with links to Canada and relying on VFR for such a very long and very thin route is asinine.

I also think this realignment to Europe is going to be an abject failure.
Filip no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 19th, 2013, 04:41 AM   #3198
romantic_guy08
Captain, S.S. Love Boat
 
romantic_guy08's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: S.S. Love Boat
Posts: 1,386
Likes (Received): 395

Quote:
Originally Posted by Filip View Post
It's not really surprising... PAL is not in an alliance, Manila is not a particularly strong business hub with links to Canada and relying on VFR for such a very long and very thin route is asinine.

I also think this realignment to Europe is going to be an abject failure.
They will also downgrade YVR from the 77W to the A343s 4x/week.

Word going inside is that, aside from realignments, they had to cut the route since with the impending lifting of CAT II, PR wants to mount flights to JFK/EWR and ORD via YVR. And since the YVR-YYZ runs on the same allotment as the axed YVR-LAS, they had to cut the route to serve the US expansion via YVR.
romantic_guy08 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 19th, 2013, 04:25 PM   #3199
ACT7
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,402
Likes (Received): 77

Quote:
Originally Posted by romantic_guy08 View Post
They will also downgrade YVR from the 77W to the A343s 4x/week.

Word going inside is that, aside from realignments, they had to cut the route since with the impending lifting of CAT II, PR wants to mount flights to JFK/EWR and ORD via YVR. And since the YVR-YYZ runs on the same allotment as the axed YVR-LAS, they had to cut the route to serve the US expansion via YVR.
I think they're going to run into the same problem with JFK/EWR and ORD though. Too long and thin a route.
ACT7 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old July 19th, 2013, 08:24 PM   #3200
GTR66
GTR66
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Pittsburgh
Posts: 1,274
Likes (Received): 312

Quote:
Originally Posted by ACT7 View Post
I think they're going to run into the same problem with JFK/EWR and ORD though. Too long and thin a route.
Maybe they can connect somewhere Europe. LHR/FRA/CDG are possible connecting cities from ORD or JFK.
GTR66 no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
canada, canadian airports, northamerica airport hubs, toronto

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 08:13 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium