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Old January 5th, 2018, 02:42 AM   #4261
Abhishek901
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When it is said that YYZ is the 4th busiest point of entry in the US, does it also include passengers flying domestically between YYZ and US airports?
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Old January 5th, 2018, 11:40 PM   #4262
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Originally Posted by Abhishek901 View Post
When it is said that YYZ is the 4th busiest point of entry in the US, does it also include passengers flying domestically between YYZ and US airports?
YYZ is the fourth busiest point of entry into North America (behind JFK, MIA, and LAX), not just the U.S. It's the second largest point of entry into the U.S., and yes that would include passengers flying just between Canada and the U.S.
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Old January 5th, 2018, 11:49 PM   #4263
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OAG just released their busiest routes of 2017. LGA-YYZ was 6th busiest in the world and the busiest international route outside of East Asia, with 17,116 frequencies. It was also the least on-time route.

http://www.travelweekly.com/Travel-N...routes-in-2017
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Old January 5th, 2018, 11:58 PM   #4264
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I don't think YYZ can be the 2nd busiest port of entry into the US if JFK, MIA and LAX are getting more international arrivals.

I think it is opposite of what you said. YYZ is the 2nd busiest port of entry in North America and 4th busiest into the US.

I am interested in knowing how many visitors outside of Canada transit to US via YYZ. The passengers originating from Canada skew the international arrivals into US in favour of Canadian airports. Keeping pre-arrival clearance aside, in real geopolitical terms, the passenger travelling from YYZ to ORD should be counted as arriving in US via ORD instead of arriving in US via YYZ. Is any data available on these real aviation statistics?
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Old January 6th, 2018, 04:30 PM   #4265
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abhishek901 View Post
I don't think YYZ can be the 2nd busiest port of entry into the US if JFK, MIA and LAX are getting more international arrivals.

I think it is opposite of what you said. YYZ is the 2nd busiest port of entry in North America and 4th busiest into the US.

I am interested in knowing how many visitors outside of Canada transit to US via YYZ. The passengers originating from Canada skew the international arrivals into US in favour of Canadian airports. Keeping pre-arrival clearance aside, in real geopolitical terms, the passenger travelling from YYZ to ORD should be counted as arriving in US via ORD instead of arriving in US via YYZ. Is any data available on these real aviation statistics?
When I say that YYZ is the second busiest point of entry into the U.S. it means that outside of the U.S. at large, YYZ is the busiest source airport into the country. I'm sure ORD is a bigger point of entry into the U.S. than YYZ, but not into NA in general, which is where YYZ's number 4 ranking into North America comes in.

I'm not sure I understand your comment about a passenger traveling to Chicago via YYZ who should be counted as arriving into the U.S. via ORD. If someone is arriving into the U.S. via YYZ, that's exactly how they should be counted. Unless we have different destinations of the word "via". ORD in your example is the final destination, not a transit point, which is how I would define "via".
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Old January 6th, 2018, 06:06 PM   #4266
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I understand his point. YYZ can't be considered an entry point to the US because it isn't in the US. The term 'entry point' in reference to YYZ is rather bizarre, confusing, and problematic.

Btw, the international PAX for ORD was 11.60 million while transborder PAX for YYZ was 12.05 million so YYZ has more 'USA inbound/outbound' traffic than ORD.
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Last edited by isaidso; January 6th, 2018 at 06:14 PM.
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Old January 6th, 2018, 09:43 PM   #4267
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Quote:
Originally Posted by isaidso View Post
I understand his point. YYZ can't be considered an entry point to the US because it isn't in the US. The term 'entry point' in reference to YYZ is rather bizarre, confusing, and problematic.

Btw, the international PAX for ORD was 11.60 million while transborder PAX for YYZ was 12.05 million so YYZ has more 'USA inbound/outbound' traffic than ORD.
I think "entry point" in this context is referring to a source airport, not a physical point in the U.S.

And yes, with YYZ having 12.05 million transborder passengers and ORD only 11.60 total international passengers, YYZ definitely has more total 'USA inbound/outbound' traffic than ORD's total international passenger count. But I understood Abishek's point to be passenger flow into the U.S. specifically, not the traffic flowing to Canada. So in that regard, ORD I believe would be a bigger point of entry into the U.S. only, but definitely not in terms of total transborder traffic.
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Old January 6th, 2018, 10:05 PM   #4268
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Plane evacuated after Toronto airport collision

A plane that had arrived in Toronto was evacuated after it was struck by an empty aircraft moving back from a gate, Westjet airlines have confirmed.

WestJet airlines said its Boeing 737-800 carrying 168 passengers and six crew was waiting for a gate when it was hit by a Sunwing plane.

Video showed a fire near the Sunwing plane's tail and WestJet passengers sliding down emergency chutes.

All passengers were evacuated and safe, WestJet said.

The plane had arrived at Toronto Pearson from the resort of Cancun in Mexico and was stationary when the collision took place, the airline said.

WestJet said on Twitter: "Due to the position of the aircraft on the laneway, WestJet guests required evacuation via emergency slide."

Emergency crews responded immediately, the statement added.

Pearson Airport said on Twitter that fire and emergency crews had responded to an "incident involving two aircraft" at its Terminal 3, and that passengers had been evacuated.

Sunwing said its plane was being towed by its ground handling service provider at the time and there were no passengers or crew on board.

The evacuation took place as temperatures in the city dropped to -21 C.

Eyewitnesses posted pictures of the incident on social media.

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Old January 7th, 2018, 04:19 AM   #4269
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When we read the news about Air Canada or GTAA trying to make YYZ a major hub, this stat about YYZ being the 4th largest point of entry in US is thrown around and I think it doesn't make sense. Even if there's zero traffic transiting via YYZ, the passengers originating from Toronto will still get counted in this stat and give an absolutely false picture.

What I want to know is how big is YYZ's role in acting as a hub for US bound flights. That is, how many passengers arriving from foreign countries or from domestic flights in Canada "transit" via YYZ to reach a US destination (or reverse - originate from US, and transit via YYZ). So, this doesn't include O&D traffic from YYZ.
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Old January 7th, 2018, 04:21 PM   #4270
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Why would passengers originating from YYZ not count? Of course they count, and those passengers, when added to the inbound connections who transit YYZ to the U.S., add up to a number which makes Pearson the fourth largest entry point to the U.S.

Not so hard to understand...
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Old January 7th, 2018, 11:15 PM   #4271
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Originally Posted by yyzer View Post
Why would passengers originating from YYZ not count? Of course they count, and those passengers, when added to the inbound connections who transit YYZ to the U.S., add up to a number which makes Pearson the fourth largest entry point to the U.S.

Not so hard to understand...
I agree. I'm not sure where the confusion is coming from.
The question seems to be how many connecting passengers use YYZ to transit into and out of the U.S., which is a reasonable question, but to say that O&D passengers don't count is absurd.

Anecdotally, on a recent flight from HND to YYZ, I noticed several U.S. passports in hand boarding the plane. I know I'm not counting passengers holding U.S. passports, but it was enough for me to notice.
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Old January 9th, 2018, 02:40 AM   #4272
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yyzer View Post
Why would passengers originating from YYZ not count? Of course they count, and those passengers, when added to the inbound connections who transit YYZ to the U.S., add up to a number which makes Pearson the fourth largest entry point to the U.S.

Not so hard to understand...
How does counting O&D passengers determine if YYZ is a global hub funneling passengers into US? That was my question.

Other than anecdotal instances, what's the actual number of passengers inbound from US or outbound to US transiting via YYZ. When I searched, I got a combined number of all transit passengers.
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Old January 9th, 2018, 04:04 PM   #4273
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I'd like to know 'transit' numbers for YYZ as well. People using YYZ as a hub between the US and airports in Canada + people using YYZ as a hub between the US and airports outside north America.
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Old January 9th, 2018, 10:25 PM   #4274
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Originally Posted by isaidso View Post
I'd like to know 'transit' numbers for YYZ as well. People using YYZ as a hub between the US and airports in Canada + people using YYZ as a hub between the US and airports outside north America.
It would be interesting to know that for sure. I suspect if you wrote to the GTAA, they would provide an answer for you. Last I heard, YYZ had about 30% connecting traffic, which obviously includes connections within Canada as well as connections from Canadian cities to international destinations. Air Canada's strategy of linking YYZ with small to mid-size U.S. cities to connect to and from international destinations must be based on some pretty specific data. Of the 12 million transborder passengers, if we use the same 30% number, then the guess is that about 3.6 million are connecting passengers.
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Old January 10th, 2018, 01:57 AM   #4275
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I'd like to know 'transit' numbers for YYZ as well. People using YYZ as a hub between the US and airports in Canada + people using YYZ as a hub between the US and airports outside north America.
Adding to that list - intl to intl transfers (not including US). Such as London (UK) to Mexico City via YYZ. Although I don't expect this number to be significant.
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Old January 12th, 2018, 03:05 AM   #4276
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Originally Posted by Abhishek901 View Post
Adding to that list - intl to intl transfers (not including US). Such as London (UK) to Mexico City via YYZ. Although I don't expect this number to be significant.
Don't be so sure. It's often easier to transit via YYZ to say GRU or EZE than it is to go direct from Europe. Again, anecdotally, I recall on a flight to SCL and EZE quite a large number of European passports boarding the flight.
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