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Old September 29th, 2007, 12:54 AM   #421
Canadian74
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The route will not go non-stop! It will stop at BRU so people can connect to other cities in India.
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Old September 29th, 2007, 02:02 AM   #422
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ACT7 View Post
My guess is that if they permanently replace the 332 with their 77W, it should become a non-stop route in the not too distant future. It once again proves that AC's pull-out of India was pure mismanagement of aircraft, or simply lack of available fuel efficient aircraft. In any event, AC has made it pretty clear that when they begin receiving their 787's, India is back on their hit list.
As Cdn74 wrote 9W is trying to establish a nice little hub operation at BRU so no non-stops for a while.

AC's pullout was primarily due to the fact that they don't have any measurable brand recognition among travellers from India. So their primary source of pax was VFR and business people from Canada. When you compare the highly price-conscious nature of the VFR traffic combined with a poor, dated (until recently) inflight product on a one-stop route to DEL, a city that is served via one-stop from YYZ by BA, AF, KL, SU, AA, CO, VV, AZ, OS, CX, EY, 9W and soon EK they had a tough sell.
AC will return to India once the 787s arrive and it will be non-stop YYZ-BOM and YVR-DEL.
9W obviously has excellent brand recognition by 1+ Billion people and is an amazing airline to fly with.
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Old September 30th, 2007, 03:16 AM   #423
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lots of activity at YYZ today..the Jet Airways 777-300ER arrived, beautiful machine (VT-JEE), then the JAL 747-400, then there was an unexpected Cathay Pacific A340-600, which ferried up from JFK. With the CX A346, there are 3 Cathay flights tonight, the regular A340, the 747 freighter, and the A346. Hopefully a regular occurance in the near future!
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Old September 30th, 2007, 10:47 PM   #424
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yyzer View Post
lots of activity at YYZ today..the Jet Airways 777-300ER arrived, beautiful machine (VT-JEE), then the JAL 747-400, then there was an unexpected Cathay Pacific A340-600, which ferried up from JFK. With the CX A346, there are 3 Cathay flights tonight, the regular A340, the 747 freighter, and the A346. Hopefully a regular occurance in the near future!
Yeah I got a nice shot of the Jet Airways B77W.
It's my new avatar.

I didn't stick around for the CX A346. I know Cathay has received at least one of their B77Ws for the JFK run but if they have 2 or 3 now then the A346 may be switching to YYZ sooner. Now if only they arrived in daylight!
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Old October 1st, 2007, 03:59 AM   #425
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Quote:
Now if only they arrived in daylight!
You said it!

nice avatar, btw
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Old October 1st, 2007, 05:33 PM   #426
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yyzer View Post
... then there was an unexpected Cathay Pacific A340-600, which ferried up from JFK. With the CX A346, there are 3 Cathay flights tonight, the regular A340, the 747 freighter, and the A346. Hopefully a regular occurance in the near future!
The A346 was ferried to YYZ for gear repairs as the equipment was not available at JFK. She flew the JFK-YYZ run with the gear down... so I don't think CX want's that to be a regular occurance.
Anyone catch the registration... B-HQA/B/C?
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Old October 2nd, 2007, 01:13 AM   #427
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yyzhyd, the CX was B-HQC..
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Old October 2nd, 2007, 02:14 AM   #428
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Thanks yyzer
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Old October 5th, 2007, 12:47 AM   #429
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There are news saying that Czech Airlines (OK) will drop their Toronto and Montreal routes in summer 2008. That is completely BEYOND me, considering whenever I flew with them (countless times during the summer and twice in late February) they were PACKED! They seem like an airline with a successful YYZ route. It would be a MAJOR shame not to see their birds anymore...
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Old October 5th, 2007, 01:44 AM   #430
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I am not sure that the news regarding OK is accurate...the czech article that was originally quoted at yulaviation.com said that OK were "considering" dropping the Canadian routes...

Their beef was with the Canadian government, who disallowed extra freqencies that they requested to both YYZ and YUL - but this will be fixed once the Canada-EU Open Skies deal is reached...plus, why fly over the winter (low season), and then pull the flights in April? Makes no sense; if they were really going to quit Canada, they would pull the flights now. I think that the poster on airliners has made an assumption here, and has posted an irresponsible headline.

my 2cents.....then, again, maybe the gas-guzzling A310s are the problem..
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Old October 5th, 2007, 01:59 AM   #431
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This reminds me of when EL AL threatened to drop YYZ because of fees. Airlines scream at the top of their lungs but in the end, a successful route is a successful route and it seems unlikely that OK will pull out of YYZ and YUL when major airlines are adding routes across the board.
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Old October 5th, 2007, 02:22 AM   #432
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Filip, here's a link to the original article....

http://aktualne.centrum.cz/ekonomika...html?id=509745

Maybe you can translate it for us....my czech is a little rusty....
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Old October 5th, 2007, 03:39 PM   #433
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Filip View Post
There are news saying that Czech Airlines (OK) will drop their Toronto and Montreal routes in summer 2008. That is completely BEYOND me, considering whenever I flew with them (countless times during the summer and twice in late February) they were PACKED! They seem like an airline with a successful YYZ route. It would be a MAJOR shame not to see their birds anymore...
As you know, full planes don't necessarily mean profits.
CSA unfortunately is stuck catering to price sensitive VFR Czech passengers. They offer no onward connections to destinations outside of the EU other than a handful of middle-east destinations (IIRC AMM, TLV, BEY, CAI, IST, and KWI).
To top it off the GTA understandably has the largest base of AC Aeroplan members in the world, so if passengers are going to the EU, they prefer to use any of the Star Alliance options out of YYZ like AC, LH, OS, or LO and collect their miles.

Regardless it indeed would be a shame to see OK leave YYZ.
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Old October 5th, 2007, 06:15 PM   #434
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They offer great connections to some Eastern European destinations. Our flights are usually filled with Serbs going to BEG.

yyzer: I somehow managed to translate for myself the article (thanks to the fact that all Slavic languages are similar)... They say they want to reroute that A310 to Africa and Asia. Stupid move on their part, guess that is good for Malev and LOT - probably JAT too which will be making a comeback.
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Old October 9th, 2007, 04:34 PM   #435
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KLM double daily to YYZ

Again, just as I predicted...
Source: Amadeus & KLM.com

Summer 2008
KL691
Departs Amsterdam (AMS) 1355
Arrives Toronto (YYZ) 1550
KL692
Departs Toronto (YYZ) 1805
Arrives Amsterdam (AMS) 0715+1
(All times local)
Frequency: Daily
Equipment: B747-400

KL695
Departs Amsterdam (AMS) 2220
Arrives Toronto (YYZ) 2025
KL696
Departs Toronto (YYZ) 2220
Arrives Amsterdam (AMS) 1130+1
Flight Duration 13:05
(All times local)
Frequency: Daily
Equipment: A330-200
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Old October 9th, 2007, 05:53 PM   #436
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Great news on the KL increase for next year!
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Old October 10th, 2007, 01:18 AM   #437
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747 full pax or combi?
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Old October 10th, 2007, 02:00 AM   #438
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The daily KL 747 has been full pax for a couple of years now...once in a while they bring in a combi, then the spotters out at YYZ are happy, with new registrations to log...
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Old October 10th, 2007, 06:04 PM   #439
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Shanghai Airlines

Looks like Shanghai Airlines is coming to Canada. They have received their license as per Transport Canada. Here is the link.

http://www.cta-otc.gc.ca/rulings-dec...-A-2007_e.html

Copy of the details:

October 9, 2007

APPLICATION by Shanghai Airlines Co., Ltd. carrying on business as Shanghai Airlines pursuant to subsection 69(1) of the Canada Transportation Act, S.C., 1996, c. 10, as amended, for a licence to operate a scheduled international service between points in the People's Republic of China and points in Canada.
File No. M4212/S568-4
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Shanghai Airlines Co., Ltd. carrying on business as Shanghai Airlines (hereinafter the applicant) has applied to the Canadian Transportation Agency (hereinafter the Agency) for a licence to operate the service set out in the title. The application was received on August 27, 2007 and was complete and ready for processing on September 28, 2007.

By Diplomatic Note No. 201 dated September 17, 2007, the applicant has been designated by the Government of the People's Republic of China, pursuant to the provisions of the Agreement between the Government of Canada and the Government of the People's Republic of China on Air Transport signed on September 9, 2005 (hereinafter the Agreement).

The applicant filed a solemn declaration attesting that within the twelve months preceding the filing of the application it did not contravene section 59 of the Canada Transportation Act (hereinafter the CTA) in that it has not sold, caused to be sold or publicly offered for sale in Canada transportation in respect of the applied for air service without holding the required licence. The applicant has also undertaken in respect of the air service applied for that it will not contravene section 59 of the CTA prior to the issuance of the applied for licence. The Agency is not aware of any evidence that the applicant contravened section 59 of the CTA within the preceding twelve months.

The Agency has reviewed the application and is satisfied that the applicant meets the requirements of subsection 69(1) of the CTA. The Agency is also satisfied that the pertinent terms and conditions of the Agreement have been complied with.

Accordingly, the Agency will issue to the applicant a licence to operate a scheduled international service.

Pursuant to subsection 71(1) of the CTA, the Agency deems it appropriate to include the terms and conditions set out below in the licence to be issued pursuant to this Decision.

The licence to be issued pursuant to this Decision shall be subject, in addition to the conditions prescribed by the Air Transportation Regulations, SOR/88-58, as amended (hereinafter the ATR), to the requirements to hold a Canadian aviation document issued by the Minister of Transport, and to have prescribed liability insurance coverage as set out in section 7 of the ATR, and to the following terms and conditions to which the licence is made subject pursuant to subsection 71(1) of the CTA:

1. The Licensee is authorized to operate the route(s) set out in the Agreement.

2. The operation of the scheduled international service authorized herein shall be conducted subject to the provisions of the Agreement and to any applicable arrangements as may be agreed to between Canada and the People's Republic of China.

3. Unless terminated at an earlier date in accordance with the CTA or the Agreement, this licence shall terminate at the termination or expiration of the Agreement, or upon the effective date of any amendment to the Agreement which shall have the effect of eliminating the rights herein authorized.


It should also be noted that they have signed a code share agreement with Air Canada so who knows which will fly their aircraft. It provides for both to a code share on either company aircraft. Here is the link for that:

http://www.cta-otc.gc.ca/rulings-dec...-A-2007_e.html

Here are the details:

October 9, 2007

APPLICATION by Air Canada, on behalf of itself and Shanghai Airlines Co., Ltd. carrying on business as Shanghai Airlines, pursuant to section 60 of the Canada Transportation Act, S.C., 1996, c. 10, as amended, and section 8.2 of the Air Transportation Regulations, SOR/88-58, as amended, for an approval to permit Shanghai Airlines Co., Ltd. carrying on business as Shanghai Airlines to provide its scheduled international service between the People's Republic of China and Canada by selling transportation in its own name on flights operated by Air Canada and its affiliates on licensed routes between points in the People's Republic of China and points in Canada, for a period of three years, or such longer period as may be authorized by the Agency, commencing on the date of this Decision.
File No. M4835-2-55
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Air Canada, on behalf of itself and Shanghai Airlines Co., Ltd. carrying on business as Shanghai Airlines (hereinafter Shanghai Airlines), has applied to the Canadian Transportation Agency (hereinafter the Agency) for the approval set out in the title. The application was received on July 27, 2007, was amended on August 28 and September 14, 2007, and was complete and ready for processing on October 9, 2007.

Under Licence No. 070105, Shanghai Airlines is authorized to operate a scheduled international service in accordance with the Agreement between the Government of Canada and the Government of the People's Republic of China on Air Transport signed on September 9, 2005 (hereinafter the Agreement).

Under Licence No. 000097, Air Canada is authorized to operate, inter alia, a scheduled international service, large aircraft, in accordance with the Agreement.

Under the terms of the Agreement, code sharing between designated airlines is permitted, subject to the regulatory requirements normally applied by the aeronautical authorities of Canada and China and to the approval of those authorities.

The Agency has reviewed and considered the application and the material filed in support thereof and is satisfied that it meets the requirements of section 8.2 of the Air Transportation Regulations (hereinafter the ATR).

With respect to the duration of the approval requested, in light of the provisions of the Agreement, the Agency considers that a term of three years would be appropriate.

Accordingly, the Agency, pursuant to paragraph 60(1)(b) of the Canada Transportation Act and section 8.2 of the ATR, hereby approves the use by Shanghai Airlines of aircraft and flight crew provided by Air Canada and its affiliates, and the provision by Air Canada and its affiliates of such aircraft and flight crew to Shanghai Airlines, to permit Shanghai Airlines to provide its scheduled international service on licensed routes between China and Canada by selling transportation in its own name on flights operated by Air Canada and its affiliates between points in China and points in Canada, for a period of three years commencing on the date of this Decision, subject to the following conditions:

1. Shanghai Airlines shall continue to hold the required licence authority.

2. Shanghai Airlines shall apply its published tariffs, on file with the Agency and in effect, to the carriage of its traffic. In particular, nothing in any commercial agreement between the air carriers relating to limits of liability shall diminish the rights of passengers as stated in such tariffs.

3. The air service approved herein shall only be provided as long as a code-sharing agreement providing for such services remains in effect.

Air Canada and its affiliates and Shanghai Airlines are reminded of the continuing requirement to comply with sections 8.2 and 8.5 of the ATR.

Air Canada and Shanghai Airlines are further reminded to provide the Agency with a copy of any new agreement or amendments to their commercial agreement, including any new or amended annex, without delay.

The approval granted herein does not exempt Air Canada and its affiliates and Shanghai Airlines from the requirements of other legislative acts or regulations, including those of Transport Canada.
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Old October 10th, 2007, 06:26 PM   #440
yyzhyd
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TObermuda37 View Post
Looks like Shanghai Airlines is coming to Canada. They have received their license as per Transport Canada. Here is the link.

http://www.cta-otc.gc.ca/rulings-dec...-A-2007_e.html

Copy of the details:

October 9, 2007

APPLICATION by Shanghai Airlines Co., Ltd. carrying on business as Shanghai Airlines pursuant to subsection 69(1) of the Canada Transportation Act, S.C., 1996, c. 10, as amended, for a licence to operate a scheduled international service between points in the People's Republic of China and points in Canada.
File No. M4212/S568-4
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Shanghai Airlines Co., Ltd. carrying on business as Shanghai Airlines (hereinafter the applicant) has applied to the Canadian Transportation Agency (hereinafter the Agency) for a licence to operate the service set out in the title. The application was received on August 27, 2007 and was complete and ready for processing on September 28, 2007.

By Diplomatic Note No. 201 dated September 17, 2007, the applicant has been designated by the Government of the People's Republic of China, pursuant to the provisions of the Agreement between the Government of Canada and the Government of the People's Republic of China on Air Transport signed on September 9, 2005 (hereinafter the Agreement).

The applicant filed a solemn declaration attesting that within the twelve months preceding the filing of the application it did not contravene section 59 of the Canada Transportation Act (hereinafter the CTA) in that it has not sold, caused to be sold or publicly offered for sale in Canada transportation in respect of the applied for air service without holding the required licence. The applicant has also undertaken in respect of the air service applied for that it will not contravene section 59 of the CTA prior to the issuance of the applied for licence. The Agency is not aware of any evidence that the applicant contravened section 59 of the CTA within the preceding twelve months.

The Agency has reviewed the application and is satisfied that the applicant meets the requirements of subsection 69(1) of the CTA. The Agency is also satisfied that the pertinent terms and conditions of the Agreement have been complied with.

Accordingly, the Agency will issue to the applicant a licence to operate a scheduled international service.

Pursuant to subsection 71(1) of the CTA, the Agency deems it appropriate to include the terms and conditions set out below in the licence to be issued pursuant to this Decision.

The licence to be issued pursuant to this Decision shall be subject, in addition to the conditions prescribed by the Air Transportation Regulations, SOR/88-58, as amended (hereinafter the ATR), to the requirements to hold a Canadian aviation document issued by the Minister of Transport, and to have prescribed liability insurance coverage as set out in section 7 of the ATR, and to the following terms and conditions to which the licence is made subject pursuant to subsection 71(1) of the CTA:

1. The Licensee is authorized to operate the route(s) set out in the Agreement.

2. The operation of the scheduled international service authorized herein shall be conducted subject to the provisions of the Agreement and to any applicable arrangements as may be agreed to between Canada and the People's Republic of China.

3. Unless terminated at an earlier date in accordance with the CTA or the Agreement, this licence shall terminate at the termination or expiration of the Agreement, or upon the effective date of any amendment to the Agreement which shall have the effect of eliminating the rights herein authorized.


It should also be noted that they have signed a code share agreement with Air Canada so who knows which will fly their aircraft. It provides for both to a code share on either company aircraft. Here is the link for that:

http://www.cta-otc.gc.ca/rulings-dec...-A-2007_e.html

Here are the details:

October 9, 2007

APPLICATION by Air Canada, on behalf of itself and Shanghai Airlines Co., Ltd. carrying on business as Shanghai Airlines, pursuant to section 60 of the Canada Transportation Act, S.C., 1996, c. 10, as amended, and section 8.2 of the Air Transportation Regulations, SOR/88-58, as amended, for an approval to permit Shanghai Airlines Co., Ltd. carrying on business as Shanghai Airlines to provide its scheduled international service between the People's Republic of China and Canada by selling transportation in its own name on flights operated by Air Canada and its affiliates on licensed routes between points in the People's Republic of China and points in Canada, for a period of three years, or such longer period as may be authorized by the Agency, commencing on the date of this Decision.
File No. M4835-2-55
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Air Canada, on behalf of itself and Shanghai Airlines Co., Ltd. carrying on business as Shanghai Airlines (hereinafter Shanghai Airlines), has applied to the Canadian Transportation Agency (hereinafter the Agency) for the approval set out in the title. The application was received on July 27, 2007, was amended on August 28 and September 14, 2007, and was complete and ready for processing on October 9, 2007.

Under Licence No. 070105, Shanghai Airlines is authorized to operate a scheduled international service in accordance with the Agreement between the Government of Canada and the Government of the People's Republic of China on Air Transport signed on September 9, 2005 (hereinafter the Agreement).

Under Licence No. 000097, Air Canada is authorized to operate, inter alia, a scheduled international service, large aircraft, in accordance with the Agreement.

Under the terms of the Agreement, code sharing between designated airlines is permitted, subject to the regulatory requirements normally applied by the aeronautical authorities of Canada and China and to the approval of those authorities.

The Agency has reviewed and considered the application and the material filed in support thereof and is satisfied that it meets the requirements of section 8.2 of the Air Transportation Regulations (hereinafter the ATR).

With respect to the duration of the approval requested, in light of the provisions of the Agreement, the Agency considers that a term of three years would be appropriate.

Accordingly, the Agency, pursuant to paragraph 60(1)(b) of the Canada Transportation Act and section 8.2 of the ATR, hereby approves the use by Shanghai Airlines of aircraft and flight crew provided by Air Canada and its affiliates, and the provision by Air Canada and its affiliates of such aircraft and flight crew to Shanghai Airlines, to permit Shanghai Airlines to provide its scheduled international service on licensed routes between China and Canada by selling transportation in its own name on flights operated by Air Canada and its affiliates between points in China and points in Canada, for a period of three years commencing on the date of this Decision, subject to the following conditions:

1. Shanghai Airlines shall continue to hold the required licence authority.

2. Shanghai Airlines shall apply its published tariffs, on file with the Agency and in effect, to the carriage of its traffic. In particular, nothing in any commercial agreement between the air carriers relating to limits of liability shall diminish the rights of passengers as stated in such tariffs.

3. The air service approved herein shall only be provided as long as a code-sharing agreement providing for such services remains in effect.

Air Canada and its affiliates and Shanghai Airlines are reminded of the continuing requirement to comply with sections 8.2 and 8.5 of the ATR.

Air Canada and Shanghai Airlines are further reminded to provide the Agency with a copy of any new agreement or amendments to their commercial agreement, including any new or amended annex, without delay.

The approval granted herein does not exempt Air Canada and its affiliates and Shanghai Airlines from the requirements of other legislative acts or regulations, including those of Transport Canada.
A couple of points to clarify...
This an two step application to allow Shanghai Airlines to codeshare on the existing AC flight(s).
Effective Dec. 2007, FM is part of Star Alliance, which is the reason for the application.

Even if the application was for FM to operate their own airplanes to Canada, they don't have enough capability. FM only has 7 widebody aircraft (B767s) of which only three (3) are the extended range version capable of flying China-Canada.
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