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Old November 21st, 2008, 08:11 AM   #721
lvan
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Not sure on middle east, but there is always some talk about Dubai.
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Old November 21st, 2008, 08:32 AM   #722
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I think it's political. AC only allow 6 flights from UAE to YYZ PER week, shared with 3 EK and another 3 to EY. It's all business travel competition. IF AC started flying to Dubai , they would have to allow more flights to Pearson from UAE carriers. Those carriers would take over the market. Considering how AC triple 777 are tied to Asian/Aussie routes where AC make most of cash on cargo and premium seats , AC got no chance here. I mean you can not put lousy 767 and compete with EK/EY on that route. That's why AC is waiting to get some more triple 777 and see what they can do. Keep in mind that EK/EY got top notch business product. Nothing wrong there , it's just nice to see how eager these guys are push it. Lol maybe Mayor's Millers dream will come true to see Toronto as a world class city. Lol I am afraid he may be long gone . So yup there ya go. My 0.02c
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Old November 21st, 2008, 11:01 AM   #723
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Dubai is a transit market. AC will never be able to capture a significant market share on this route since many travellers into Dubai would rather choose Emirates and connect onto another destination in the Middle East or India without switching airlines.
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Old November 21st, 2008, 04:27 PM   #724
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Wow a lot of interesting topics since my last visit to this thread!

1. As yyzer mentioned the S. Korea/Canada bilateral looks to have opened up.
I haven't been leaked any details but most likely it will allow Korean Air to operate daily flights to YYZ and YVR. If we're lucky Asiana might try an ICN-YVR or ICN-YYZ route.
Link: http://english.chosun.com/w21data/ht...811210012.html

2. Call it a blessing in disguise I guess, but with Emirates limited to 3 weekly flights into YYZ and their loads/yields doing extremely well. I have excellent info that the A380 will be put on the DXB-YYZ route once EK's fleet hits 7-8 frames. Currently they have 2 frames.

3. In 2009 expect an announcement by Qatar on and star alliance membership/codeshare followed closely by Qatar being granted 7 weekly flights to Canada. These will be used on DOH-YYZ most likely beginning in Fall 2009.

4. The chances of Saudi Arabian/Gulf Air flying to YYZ are very unlikely as there is not enough O-D passengers to support these routes, just like EK, EY, or QR. However EK, EY and QR have or are building efficient hubs that have excellent onward connections to South Asia.

Just my $0.02
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Old November 21st, 2008, 06:50 PM   #725
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Awesome news there! Personally, I think the best news out of Pearson this year is AC's route to Geneva, a direct flight is a blessing to this charming city.
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Old November 22nd, 2008, 10:22 AM   #726
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I wonder how come AC never anticipated to fly to eastern europe. They had Moscow on but they took it off. What is going on there? I mean they would not touch anything east of Italy.....
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Old November 24th, 2008, 05:27 AM   #727
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lvan View Post
I wonder how come AC never anticipated to fly to eastern europe. They had Moscow on but they took it off. What is going on there? I mean they would not touch anything east of Italy.....
_________________________________________________________________Does anyone know when Etihad and Emirates get their daily flights out of toronto?
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Old November 24th, 2008, 05:32 AM   #728
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Originally Posted by YYZplanner View Post
_________________________________________________________________

Does anyone know when Etihad and Emirates get their daily flights out of toronto?
Also, does anyone know when Royal Jordanian airlines will be coming back to toronto? What about Egyptair? Other airline carriers to Africa? and Malaysia?
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Old November 24th, 2008, 05:35 AM   #729
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Originally Posted by YYZplanner View Post
Also, does anyone know when Royal Jordanian airlines will be coming back to toronto? What about Egyptair? Other airline carriers to Africa? and Malaysia?
With so many philipenes here, why hasn't philipene airlines come to toronto?
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Old November 24th, 2008, 06:41 AM   #730
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YYZplanner View Post
With so many philipenes here, why hasn't philipene airlines come to toronto?
I think that's tied to the downgrading of the airline by the FAA which restricts the number of flights they can get into the US. Given the agreement between the Philippines and Canada, PR can't fly say from Toronto to Vancouver and then onto Manila. PR's only option would be to fly through the US, say SFO or LAX. Prior to the ruling, I believe they were looking to service Chicago but have subequently been locked out. On the other hand, has AC considered flying into MNL?
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Old November 24th, 2008, 08:10 AM   #731
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I believe Philippines flies to Vancouver and onwards to the US. Not sure if it's a 5th freedom out of Vancouver though.
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Old November 24th, 2008, 09:06 AM   #732
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hkskyline View Post
I believe Philippines flies to Vancouver and onwards to the US. Not sure if it's a 5th freedom out of Vancouver though.
PR currently flies 5 times a week between Manila - YVR - LAS. They had applied to upgrade the flight to daily. Not sure if it was approved or not but the Cdn carriers raised some issues with this.
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Old November 24th, 2008, 05:09 PM   #733
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TObermuda37 View Post
PR currently flies 5 times a week between Manila - YVR - LAS. They had applied to upgrade the flight to daily. Not sure if it was approved or not but the Cdn carriers raised some issues with this.
The downgrading by the FAA essentially froze the number of flights to the US that PR can offer. They may be able to get away with daily flights to YVR, but only 5 of them can go on to LAS. Given the economic climate in the US, it may be best that they weren't allowed to expand there.
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Old November 25th, 2008, 01:17 AM   #734
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gil View Post
The downgrading by the FAA essentially froze the number of flights to the US that PR can offer. They may be able to get away with daily flights to YVR, but only 5 of them can go on to LAS. Given the economic climate in the US, it may be best that they weren't allowed to expand there.
Does anyone know when Etihad and Emirates get their daily flights out of toronto? Also, does anyone know when Royal Jordanian airlines will be coming back to toronto? What about Egyptair? Other airline carriers to Africa? and Malaysia?
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Old November 25th, 2008, 07:16 AM   #735
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YYZplanner View Post
Does anyone know when Etihad and Emirates get their daily flights out of toronto? Also, does anyone know when Royal Jordanian airlines will be coming back to toronto? What about Egyptair? Other airline carriers to Africa? and Malaysia?
Emirates and Ethiad will not be getting daily flights soon. The Cdn Govt is finishing off the negotiations for the EU by the end of November as we set out by Stephen Harper.

RJ and Egyptair in YYZ is not something I see happening soon. The global economy is tanking and there are going to be cutbacks which have already started.

The only other carrier that has been mentioned was Ethopian which wants to get rights into YYZ. Thy is also supposed to happen but seems to be that it is on ice currently.
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Old November 25th, 2008, 07:15 PM   #736
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Cathay changing HKG-YYZ schedule

Cathay is changing the timings of their daily HKG-YYZ flight for Summer Season 2009 and will no longer be overnighting their aircraft at Pearson.
Although the turnaround time seems a very tight 1h 45min.


Schedule below:

CX827
Depart Hong Kong (HKG) 1:20PM
Arrive Toronto (YYZ) 4:00PM

CX826
Depart Toronto (YYZ) 5:45PM
Arrive Hong Kong (HKG) 9:00PM next day

Frequency: Daily
All flights operated by Boeing B777-300ER
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Old November 25th, 2008, 07:19 PM   #737
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TObermuda37 View Post
Emirates and Ethiad will not be getting daily flights soon. The Cdn Govt is finishing off the negotiations for the EU by the end of November as we set out by Stephen Harper.

RJ and Egyptair in YYZ is not something I see happening soon. The global economy is tanking and there are going to be cutbacks which have already started.

The only other carrier that has been mentioned was Ethopian which wants to get rights into YYZ. Thy is also supposed to happen but seems to be that it is on ice currently.
Agree with your responses.

YYZPlanner,
It is important to understand that just because Toronto has a "large" population of people from XYZ country, that itself will not make the route profitable for the airline of XYZ to fly here.
Airlines always look for a mix of yield (Business/First/Full Fare) and overall loads to determine the viability of the route.
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Old November 26th, 2008, 04:15 AM   #738
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yyzhyd View Post
Agree with your responses.

YYZPlanner,
It is important to understand that just because Toronto has a "large" population of people from XYZ country, that itself will not make the route profitable for the airline of XYZ to fly here.
Airlines always look for a mix of yield (Business/First/Full Fare) and overall loads to determine the viability of the route.
_________________________________________________________________

I definately agree with you, and thanks to all of you for all the helpful info. But also understand that an airline will make very good business if the people of that specific country are in toronto. Think about it? An airline would love to come and make business there. Also, an example of this would be ethopian airlines in washington intl airport. There are many africans in washington, so dont you think thats why some african airlines are there? But, other info now, I heard that egyptair was planning for toronto in 2009. Always want the best for your city so that it becomes easier for you and the population as well.

Thanks
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Old November 26th, 2008, 04:57 AM   #739
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I think there are some misconceptions on how airlines plan and run routes. A key exception we see is the lack of connectivity to India (direct flights) despite a huge Indian population in the country. While route planning is driven heavily by population [market size], it is ultimately a question of profitability. Why would management want to fly to a place with a full plane but small profits when they can fly to another place that may be 3/4 full but much more profitable?

That being said, it is also important to balance the different classes. Since Business Class is so much more profitable, a route is not likely to be a top performer even if all of Economy is full but there is a small Business Class market.
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Old November 26th, 2008, 05:23 AM   #740
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hkskyline is right....I have been told that on certain longhaul routes, the profit on -one- business class traveller is equal to the total profit on -100- economy class travellers....in other words, 2 or 3 business class passengers can be as valuable at the entire coach cabin....
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