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Old January 4th, 2010, 04:44 PM   #1161
yyzer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yyzhyd View Post
Thanks for the update yyzer... the tech stop on the westbound is very interesting though.
I agree yyzhyd....plenty of range with the 777-300ER, they don't need to stop at all....unless they are planning for extremely heavy cargo lift....their Newark flight does the same thing westbound.....
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Old January 4th, 2010, 05:06 PM   #1162
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There was also some talk of BR not having rights to overfly Chinese airspace but that issue was resolved in 2005 IIRC.
If not, then the YYZ-ANC-TPE routing makes sense as it would allow the aircraft to just skirt Chinese airspace as it flies south from Russian airspace.

But what is puzzling is that the B77W has a range of 7,930 nm.
Even if the aircraft flew YYZ west to ANC (without landing) then turned north and on to TPE it would only be ~6,700 nm. This would be ~200 nm greater than a YYZ-TPE direct routing but still well within the range of the aircraft.

Not to mention their B77W's are fairly lightly configured with only 316 seats. So you may be right about the cargo angle.

Last edited by yyzhyd; January 4th, 2010 at 05:13 PM.
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Old January 4th, 2010, 05:11 PM   #1163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yyzhyd View Post
There was also some talk of BR not having rights to overfly Chinese airspace but that issue was resolved in 2005 IIRC.
If not, then the YYZ-ANC-TPE routing makes sense as it would allow the aircraft to just skirt Chinese airspace as it flies south from Russian airspace.

But what is puzzling is that the B77W has a range of 7,930 nm.
Even if the aircraft flew YYZ west to ANC (without landing) then turned north and on to TPE it would only be ~6,700 nm. This would be ~200 nm greater than a YYZ-TPE direct routing but still well within the range of the aircraft.

So you may be right about the cargo angle.
They can fly from Taipei to Shanghai but cannot fly over Chinese airspace without stopping somewhere in China?
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Old January 6th, 2010, 08:57 AM   #1164
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I heard those are all North Pole routings. I was told YYZ/HKG is done over the North Pole. So no matter how you look at it, they would fly over China IMO.
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Old January 6th, 2010, 09:04 AM   #1165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yyzer View Post
I agree yyzhyd....plenty of range with the 777-300ER, they don't need to stop at all....unless they are planning for extremely heavy cargo lift....their Newark flight does the same thing westbound.....
IMHO, I was told 777-LR (77L) is a better workhorse for longhaul cargo routes. So those that have 773, they purchased some 77L for that as well. Hense why Air Canada purchased them. The 77L has proven to have the longest range along with cargo load.
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Old January 6th, 2010, 09:04 AM   #1166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YU-AMC View Post
I heard those are all North Pole routings. I was told YYZ/HKG is done over the North Pole. So no matter how you look at it, they would fly over China IMO.
There are several polar routings, and I don't think Anchorage is along any of them at all. The biggest problem over the years is flying over Russia, not over China. Russia charged airlines for flying through its airspace and radar coverage was a problem in that part of Siberia. YYZ-HKG and EWR-HKG are now using these routes, but I have never picked up China giving difficulties to Taiwanese carriers for flying over its airspace given the liberalization of cross-strait flights in the past year.
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Old January 10th, 2010, 06:47 AM   #1167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YU-AMC View Post
IMHO, I was told 777-LR (77L) is a better workhorse for longhaul cargo routes. So those that have 773, they purchased some 77L for that as well. Hense why Air Canada purchased them. The 77L has proven to have the longest range along with cargo load.

Very True YU-AMC,

This would explain both carriers of Emirates and Etihad of their Cargo load doing well out of Toronto which is one reason why the want more frequencies out of Toronto.
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Old January 10th, 2010, 06:49 AM   #1168
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YU-AMC View Post
I heard those are all North Pole routings. I was told YYZ/HKG is done over the North Pole. So no matter how you look at it, they would fly over China IMO.
Definately,

yes, when there are flights from toronto to hong kong, they go over the north pole. My cousin had flown from JFK-HKG, and that airline of Cathy Pacific also went over the north pole to get to Hong Kong.
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Old January 11th, 2010, 04:29 AM   #1169
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Foxy Americans knew what they were doing! lol

The 777LR , the top dog as a longhauler.
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Old January 11th, 2010, 05:21 PM   #1170
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YYZplanner View Post
Very True YU-AMC,

This would explain both carriers of Emirates and Etihad of their Cargo load doing well out of Toronto which is one reason why the want more frequencies out of Toronto.
Sorry but I don't understand this statement as Eva, Cathay, and Etihad don't operate any 77Ls nor have they ordered any of the type. Do you have any info to support your cargo claims out of YYZ by EK and EY?

The 77L has only been ordered by 7 airlines and it's a niche aircraft for ULH medium-sized routes. The 77W can do almost everything the 77L can do in terms of performance but with added pax & cargo capacity.
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Old January 12th, 2010, 11:49 AM   #1171
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I wonder if there is the restriction issue with cargo routes? I doubt it. I guess it all comes down to the loads. Someone correct me.
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Old January 12th, 2010, 03:45 PM   #1172
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YU-AMC View Post
I wonder if there is the restriction issue with cargo routes? I doubt it. I guess it all comes down to the loads. Someone correct me.
Yes of course there are restrictions on and they can range from ETOPS, airways taken, prevailing winds, fuel requirements etc.
No different than comparing the fuel consumption figures posted by the manufacturer compared to one's real world experience.
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Old January 12th, 2010, 06:00 PM   #1173
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yyzhyd View Post
Sorry but I don't understand this statement as Eva, Cathay, and Etihad don't operate any 77Ls nor have they ordered any of the type. Do you have any info to support your cargo claims out of YYZ by EK and EY?

The 77L has only been ordered by 7 airlines and it's a niche aircraft for ULH medium-sized routes. The 77W can do almost everything the 77L can do in terms of performance but with added pax & cargo capacity.
Oh yes, sorry about that claim. I read somewhere on a Etihad news page that their cargo loads out of Toronto was doing well. By the way, right now, I think that Etihad operates 777-300 out of Toronto? or is it going to be coming soon? Also, if the airline itself cannot carry cargo loads, how does the cargo reach the destination?
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Old January 13th, 2010, 02:33 PM   #1174
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Another New Entrant???

According to Routesonline.com, Arkefly is commencing service from Amsterdam to Toronto. Here is the details:

Arkefly to serve Toronto
Their first destination in the North Americas

Posted 12/01/2010

TUI Travel Group Dutch-based leisure carrier Arkefly has revealed to Routes online that it will begin serving the North Americas for the first time.

A new charter service between Amsterdam Schipol Airport and Toronto Pearson (YYZ) is proposed, using a B767-300ER, in a 3-class configuration (Economy, Comfort- and Star Class), with a total capacity of 272 seats.

Arkefly operates 6 aircraft at AMS: three B767-300s and three B737-300s.

Currently, Skyteam carrier KLM operates a ten-times weekly service between the city pairs, with Air Transat operating a seasonal charter service.

IATA BSP data (Airport IS) shows that over 120,000 passengers flew the route in the period between Oct 08-09.

Link:

http://www.routesonline.com/news/29/...serve-toronto/
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Old January 13th, 2010, 05:08 PM   #1175
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Nice find, Toronto 41! googling around, there are a couple of dutch language articles confirming this, looks like it will happen, with flights commencing July 1....

http://travel.blog.nl/luchtvaartnieu...onto-in-canada
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Old January 14th, 2010, 12:32 PM   #1176
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yyzhyd View Post
Yes of course there are restrictions on and they can range from ETOPS, airways taken, prevailing winds, fuel requirements etc.
No different than comparing the fuel consumption figures posted by the manufacturer compared to one's real world experience.
No, I was talking about airport landings.
Are they limited to how many times they can land when it comes to cargo.
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Old January 14th, 2010, 12:34 PM   #1177
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I wanted to know how many flights we have in a week from YYZ to SYD ? I am guessing three? On the airlines , AC 777 get outnumbered by EK , BA ......
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Old January 14th, 2010, 07:27 PM   #1178
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YU-AMC View Post
No, I was talking about airport landings.
Are they limited to how many times they can land when it comes to cargo.
If you mean EK and EY... there is no separate provision in the current bilateral for cargo. Therefore the amount/frequency of cargo is dependent on the size of the aircraft they operate for pax service. This as everyone knows is restricted to 6x weekly split between EK and EY (3 each).
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Old January 14th, 2010, 07:52 PM   #1179
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YU-AMC View Post
I wanted to know how many flights we have in a week from YYZ to SYD ? I am guessing three? On the airlines , AC 777 get outnumbered by EK , BA ......
There are currently no non-stop flights between YYZ-SYD.
AC operates 7x weekly a daily direct flight with one stop (YVR) using the same flight number (AC033). No other airline does this between YYZ-SYD.
BA operates 14x weekly YYZ-SYD via non-direct connecting flights.

However in a week there are literally dozens of other connecting flights per week out of YYZ to SYD per week on EK, CX, OZ, DL, EY, KE, and UA (if you stick with same airline service & non codeshare flights)
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Old January 16th, 2010, 02:12 PM   #1180
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Okay. I knew it was Via YVR, not a non stop. So that works out to 7 flights per week.

I just was not sure how many there are in a week.
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