daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Airports and Aviation > Airports

Airports discussions about existing airports



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old October 16th, 2010, 04:21 PM   #1481
yyzer
Registered User
 
yyzer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Mississauga
Posts: 1,195
Likes (Received): 45

Turkish Airlines are upgrading their YYZ flights to 777-300ER, effective Dec 27...from airlineroute.net...

Turkish Airlines 777-300ER to Toronto from late-Dec 2010

20101015 by jimyvr Leave a Comment

As per 15OCT10 GDS timetable display, Turkish Airlines has further adjusted planned aircraft operation on its 3 weekly Istanbul Ataturk – Toronto service in Winter 2010 season.

From 27DEC10, New Boeing 777-300ER aircraft is to operate this route, instead of planned Airbus A330-200. A340-300 operates until 26DEC10.
yyzer no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old October 19th, 2010, 02:19 AM   #1482
ACT7
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,402
Likes (Received): 77

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toronto_41 View Post
All excellent points that I have tried to bring out before. However, they were normally shot down as "hogwash".

I would surmise that if the same thing were to happen in other countries, you can bet those governments would be all over it. However, the non liberal Canadians who never want any other airline to fly into the country are always out to protect AC.

If that was the case, how come Korean is flying to Toronto daily? That started this year (??). How about THY and their 3 weekly. Currently they are in negotiations to up their flights to daily. How long were they trying to get into Toronto with their ticket office on University Ave. No complaints or fights from them. What about Ethopian? Next year they are flying to Toronto (based on news reports). How long did it take them? How come they were patient enough. KLM is going up to almost double daily. I forgot, Europe so we have no issue with them and Sky Team to boot. I thought for sure AC would be up in arms about that because they are not Star Alliance and syphoning off fliers to go throught AMS. I understand, the UAE are rich with oil cash flowing in.

Well, if you have Oil and lots of money, it gives you the right to demand anything that you want and the host country should just bend over and smile. I thought partners were exactly that, partners through good and bad times.
Best point yet! Thanks for mentioning it.
ACT7 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 19th, 2010, 04:20 AM   #1483
deasine
=)
 
deasine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 2,452
Likes (Received): 57

I'm surprised this hasn't been posted, but HA Hainan Airlines of Mainland China will be starting direct to YYZ service soon. I can't find the official information off their site anymore; I hate how it's so hard to find information on Mainland airlines.
deasine no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 19th, 2010, 04:32 AM   #1484
ACT7
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,402
Likes (Received): 77

Quote:
Originally Posted by deasine View Post
I'm surprised this hasn't been posted, but HA Hainan Airlines of Mainland China will be starting direct to YYZ service soon. I can't find the official information off their site anymore; I hate how it's so hard to find information on Mainland airlines.
It was posted on page 71...they will be starting on Nov. 27th, 3 times weekly.
ACT7 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 19th, 2010, 05:22 AM   #1485
deasine
=)
 
deasine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 2,452
Likes (Received): 57

Quote:
Originally Posted by ACT7 View Post
It was posted on page 71...they will be starting on Nov. 27th, 3 times weekly.
A bit far back haha. Thanks.
deasine no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 19th, 2010, 09:12 AM   #1486
hkskyline
Hong Kong
 
hkskyline's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 86,889
Likes (Received): 18157

The dogfight over Emirates
16 October 2010
The Globe and Mail

It's Dubai versus Frankfurt in the battle of global hubs, and to the victor go the spoils of lucrative international air traffic.

Emirates Airline, which operates three round-trip flights a week between Toronto and Dubai, has been lobbying the Canadian government for much greater access to Canada. Emirates funnels global traffic through its Dubai hub. By contrast, Air Canada and its partner Deutsche Lufthansa AG fly between Toronto and Frankfurt, where Lufthansa collects connecting passengers.

After Ottawa declined to grant greater access to Dubai-based Emirates and Abu Dhabi-based Etihad Airways, the United Arab Emirates decided last week to evict the Canadian Forces from Camp Mirage, a Persian Gulf base that serves as a crucial jump-off point to Afghanistan.

Air Canada argues that its connecting points at both Frankfurt and London's Heathrow Airport would suffer if the UAE carriers grow aggressively in Canada.

As well, with Emirates seeking to add Vancouver-Dubai and Calgary-Dubai routes, Air Canada believes its flights between Western Canada and the Asia-Pacific region would be weakened since Emirates also serves China, Hong Kong, Japan and South Korea – important connecting points.

Emirates deploys the 489-seat Airbus A380 on the Toronto-Dubai route while Etihad operates the 374-seat Boeing 777 for its Toronto-Abu Dhabi service.

Emirates serves 15 destinations in the Middle East, 17 in Africa and 17 in the South Asian subcontinent, which are crucial destination markets for the airline's Toronto-Dubai service. This map shows some of the key destinations where Emirates and Lufthansa go head-to-head from their respective hubs, as well as examples of where Emirates flies without direct Lufthansa competition.

POLITICS

The UAE's eviction notice means the Canadian Forces must vacate Camp Mirage within the next three weeks. Emirates has been pushing Ottawa for more flights ever since it launched Toronto-Dubai service in October, 2007. Emirates argues that at a minimum, it needs daily service from Toronto. In an internal newsletter last year, the Air Canada Pilots Association noted the presence of small model planes on MPs' desks – souvenirs from Emirates' lobbying efforts on Parliament Hill. Air Canada and Transport Canada oppose the expansion strategy, saying there isn't any seat shortage between Canada and the UAE.

THE WIDE GAP

Emirates alone wants up to 25 more round-trips a week over the long term, leaving a wide gap between the UAE and Ottawa. In August and September, the Canadian government offered to increase the frequency to one extra round-trip flight a week each for Emirates and Etihad, but it had to be service to a Canadian city other than Toronto. Ottawa also presented a separate offer to allow Emirates and Etihad to spread out their flights with smaller planes over more days, but the Canadian government would have restricted the capacity available to the existing level of roughly 2,600 seats each way weekly.

EMIRATES AIRLINE

Emirates and Lufthansa compete head-to-head in most instances in the Middle East and Africa, although Emirates has a more extensive network into India, Pakistan, Sri Lanka and Bangladesh. Emirates has been seeking to introduce daily flights to both Vancouver and Calgary, as well as lobbying to gradually boost its Toronto service to twice a day. “In carrying this connecting traffic, Emirates provides enhanced access between Canada and various regions of the world which are underserved or not served at all from Canada,” according to an Emirates' report presented to Ottawa.

AIR CANADA/LUFTHANSA

Air Canada and its Star Alliance partner, Germany's Lufthansa, both fly non-stop between Toronto and Frankfurt. Lufthansa and its European subsidiaries boast an extensive network from the Frankfurt hub, as well as from Munich and other European terminals. Connecting travellers make many of Air Canada's flights viable, and consumers would find they have fewer Air Canada flights to choose from if Emirates were to obtain dozens of new takeoff and landing slots in Canada. Cities such as Calgary, Montreal and Ottawa stand to lose some non-stop Air Canada service if Emirates siphons international traffic.
__________________
Hong Kong Photo Gallery - Click Here for the Hong Kong Galleries

World Photo Gallery - | St. Petersburg, Russia | Pyongyang | Tokyo | Istanbul | Dubai | Shanghai | Mumbai | Bangkok | Sydney

New York, London, Prague, Iceland, Rocky Mountains, Angkor Wat, Sri Lanka, Poland, Myanmar, and much more!
hkskyline no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 19th, 2010, 05:30 PM   #1487
ACT7
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,402
Likes (Received): 77

Quote:
Originally Posted by hkskyline View Post
The dogfight over Emirates
16 October 2010
The Globe and Mail

It's Dubai versus Frankfurt in the battle of global hubs, and to the victor go the spoils of lucrative international air traffic.

Emirates Airline, which operates three round-trip flights a week between Toronto and Dubai, has been lobbying the Canadian government for much greater access to Canada. Emirates funnels global traffic through its Dubai hub. By contrast, Air Canada and its partner Deutsche Lufthansa AG fly between Toronto and Frankfurt, where Lufthansa collects connecting passengers.

After Ottawa declined to grant greater access to Dubai-based Emirates and Abu Dhabi-based Etihad Airways, the United Arab Emirates decided last week to evict the Canadian Forces from Camp Mirage, a Persian Gulf base that serves as a crucial jump-off point to Afghanistan.

Air Canada argues that its connecting points at both Frankfurt and London's Heathrow Airport would suffer if the UAE carriers grow aggressively in Canada.

As well, with Emirates seeking to add Vancouver-Dubai and Calgary-Dubai routes, Air Canada believes its flights between Western Canada and the Asia-Pacific region would be weakened since Emirates also serves China, Hong Kong, Japan and South Korea – important connecting points.

Emirates deploys the 489-seat Airbus A380 on the Toronto-Dubai route while Etihad operates the 374-seat Boeing 777 for its Toronto-Abu Dhabi service.

Emirates serves 15 destinations in the Middle East, 17 in Africa and 17 in the South Asian subcontinent, which are crucial destination markets for the airline's Toronto-Dubai service. This map shows some of the key destinations where Emirates and Lufthansa go head-to-head from their respective hubs, as well as examples of where Emirates flies without direct Lufthansa competition.

POLITICS

The UAE's eviction notice means the Canadian Forces must vacate Camp Mirage within the next three weeks. Emirates has been pushing Ottawa for more flights ever since it launched Toronto-Dubai service in October, 2007. Emirates argues that at a minimum, it needs daily service from Toronto. In an internal newsletter last year, the Air Canada Pilots Association noted the presence of small model planes on MPs' desks – souvenirs from Emirates' lobbying efforts on Parliament Hill. Air Canada and Transport Canada oppose the expansion strategy, saying there isn't any seat shortage between Canada and the UAE.

THE WIDE GAP

Emirates alone wants up to 25 more round-trips a week over the long term, leaving a wide gap between the UAE and Ottawa. In August and September, the Canadian government offered to increase the frequency to one extra round-trip flight a week each for Emirates and Etihad, but it had to be service to a Canadian city other than Toronto. Ottawa also presented a separate offer to allow Emirates and Etihad to spread out their flights with smaller planes over more days, but the Canadian government would have restricted the capacity available to the existing level of roughly 2,600 seats each way weekly.

EMIRATES AIRLINE

Emirates and Lufthansa compete head-to-head in most instances in the Middle East and Africa, although Emirates has a more extensive network into India, Pakistan, Sri Lanka and Bangladesh. Emirates has been seeking to introduce daily flights to both Vancouver and Calgary, as well as lobbying to gradually boost its Toronto service to twice a day. “In carrying this connecting traffic, Emirates provides enhanced access between Canada and various regions of the world which are underserved or not served at all from Canada,” according to an Emirates' report presented to Ottawa.

AIR CANADA/LUFTHANSA

Air Canada and its Star Alliance partner, Germany's Lufthansa, both fly non-stop between Toronto and Frankfurt. Lufthansa and its European subsidiaries boast an extensive network from the Frankfurt hub, as well as from Munich and other European terminals. Connecting travellers make many of Air Canada's flights viable, and consumers would find they have fewer Air Canada flights to choose from if Emirates were to obtain dozens of new takeoff and landing slots in Canada. Cities such as Calgary, Montreal and Ottawa stand to lose some non-stop Air Canada service if Emirates siphons international traffic.
I still don't think that Emirates throwing Canada off a base is the right approach. It's a childish bully tactic and a stunt that hasn't been pulled by any other country wanting enhanced access to a country. What's the point of having bilateral agreements if one side uses threats and, worse, follows through with threats, to achieve their goal?
ACT7 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 20th, 2010, 12:00 AM   #1488
yyzhyd
Registered User
 
yyzhyd's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Toronto
Posts: 646
Likes (Received): 9


As part of Canada's air services bilaterals the basis of frequencies is tied to O+D traffic and Canada has repeatedly stated that if an airline can show that they are growing O+D traffic between Canada and their respective country an increase in frequencies will be granted. This seems perfectly fine for the 15+ countries (Turkey, Ethiopia, Kuwait etc.) that have signed new/updated bilaterals with Canada since 2006.

EK has commissioned studies that apparently state how they have grown the market between Canada and UAE. If this was true there is a mechanism in every bilateral agreement for resolution of disputes. If they really could show they were growing O+D and were being denied increased frequencies then why didn't they raise the issue through the proper channels? They didn't because Emirates is full of sh*t and everyone knows it... 90% of pax on those full A380s are connecting in DXB to somewhere else. Myself included.

Remember that EK's business model is to drive out all competitors with capacity dumping... once that's accomplished and they're in a position as the dominant carrier how long do you think those cheap fares via DXB are going to last?

Disclaimer: Aeroplan Elite and Skywards Silver member booked to fly EK YYZ-DXB-BKK in a few months.
__________________
My Flickr photostream: http://www.flickr.com/Photos
My Airliners.net photos: http://www.airliners.net/Photos
yyzhyd no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 22nd, 2010, 09:25 AM   #1489
YU-AMC
Aviation/Travel Nerd
 
YU-AMC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Whitchurch, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 9,243
Likes (Received): 1036

I still think EK/Emirates will still destroy LH. Canadian market is just one small portion where local Canadians score some points by pretending how AC want to stick and help the european air carriers/partners. It's all about looking after their own asses. Emirates are already tearing a part British Airways as we speak.
YU-AMC no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 22nd, 2010, 06:39 PM   #1490
hkskyline
Hong Kong
 
hkskyline's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 86,889
Likes (Received): 18157

Diplomatic dogfight over landing rights was avoidable
21 October 2010
Vancouver Sun

At first blush, the diplomatic dustup between Canada and the United Arab Emirates appears to pit a feudal sheikdom with a first-class airline against a modern democracy with a third-class airline.

But it's more complicated than that.

It all started after the 9/11 terrorist attacks when Canada negotiated use of a portion of an airbase near Dubai as a staging area for its forces in Afghanistan and elsewhere in the Persian Gulf. Camp Mirage, as it came to be called, has served as a crucial gateway for troops going to and leaving from Kandahar.

Then, a few years ago, the UAE began pressuring our federal government for additional landing rights to and from Canada for its state-owned national airlines. Emirates Airlines operates three round-trip flights a week between Toronto and Dubai and another carrier, Etihad Airways, flies three times a week between Toronto and Abu Dhabi. Emirates Airlines wants to offer daily service on the Toronto-Dubai route at first, doubling it to twice a day if demand warrants, and launch regular service to and from Vancouver and Calgary.

Ottawa rejected the UAE's requests for reasons to be explained in a moment. It seems clear that the Conservative government didn't expect the oil-rich Emirates would retaliate by evicting Canadian forces from Camp Mirage.

To the Western mind, linking a dispute over commercial airline landing rights with a vital military logistics and supply point may seem irrational. But the UAE may see the issue as one of reciprocity. The federal government says existing capacity supplied by the two UAE airlines is sufficient to meet demand. Hidden in that statement is an implicit accusation that Emirates Airlines is attempting to poach Canada's international traffic.

The heads of other international airlines have said as much, noting that Emirates and Etihad already have far too many seats to serve their own domestic markets and Emirates has 90 Airbus A380 aircraft on order, the largest passenger plane in the world, on order. From its Dubai hub, Emirates serves 50 destinations in the Middle East, Africa and Southeast Asia, and Air Canada fears it intends to funnel Canadian passengers travelling to those destinations through Dubai.

To serve these destinations, Air Canada uses the Frankfurt hub of its Star Alliance partner, Lufthansa, which has an extensive network of European terminals. In fact, the competitive battle is really between Lufthansa and Emirates Airlines, which are in a virtual tie for the largest number of scheduled international passenger-kilometres flown. Air Canada is a bit player that depends on connecting passengers in Lufthansa's network to make its own international flights economically viable.

Emirates, however, says Canada has nothing to lose and everything to gain by approving its expansion plans. A study it commissioned by Vancouver's InterVistas Consulting estimated that Canada would realize $480 million a year in economic benefits, including 2,800 direct and indirect jobs, if Emirates Airlines added to its Toronto flights and introduced service to Calgary and Vancouver. The governments of British Columbia, Alberta and Ontario reportedly support Emirates Airlines' expansion plans.

Actions by the UAE to expel Canada from the military base and to deny use of airspace to a plane carrying Defence Minister Peter MacKay recently were heavy-handed and disproportionate, but shouldn't have been unexpected. Nevertheless, more choice for travellers is better than less, competition produces better service at lower prices and private companies like Air Canada shouldn't expect government protection at taxpayers' expense. The Canadian government brought this diplomatic disaster upon itself for no good reason and consumers will end up flying third class instead of first.
__________________
Hong Kong Photo Gallery - Click Here for the Hong Kong Galleries

World Photo Gallery - | St. Petersburg, Russia | Pyongyang | Tokyo | Istanbul | Dubai | Shanghai | Mumbai | Bangkok | Sydney

New York, London, Prague, Iceland, Rocky Mountains, Angkor Wat, Sri Lanka, Poland, Myanmar, and much more!
hkskyline no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 22nd, 2010, 09:05 PM   #1491
Toronto_41
Registered User
 
Toronto_41's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: YUL, YYZ, CDG, LGA
Posts: 256
Likes (Received): 65

Quote:
Originally Posted by hkskyline View Post
Diplomatic dogfight over landing rights was avoidable
21 October 2010
Vancouver Sun

Emirates, however, says Canada has nothing to lose and everything to gain by approving its expansion plans. A study it commissioned by Vancouver's InterVistas Consulting estimated that Canada would realize $480 million a year in economic benefits, including 2,800 direct and indirect jobs, if Emirates Airlines added to its Toronto flights and introduced service to Calgary and Vancouver. The governments of British Columbia, Alberta and Ontario reportedly support Emirates Airlines' expansion plans.

Actions by the UAE to expel Canada from the military base and to deny use of airspace to a plane carrying Defence Minister Peter MacKay recently were heavy-handed and disproportionate, but shouldn't have been unexpected. Nevertheless, more choice for travellers is better than less, competition produces better service at lower prices and private companies like Air Canada shouldn't expect government protection at taxpayers' expense. The Canadian government brought this diplomatic disaster upon itself for no good reason and consumers will end up flying third class instead of first.
Now I will not get into a dispute about this. What I will say is that I wish someone would do a study on the economic impact of AC and what it contributes to the Canadian Economy, direct and indirect. I am sure some of those 25,000 employees might be interested to know about the 2,800 direct and indirect employees that Emirates will give to the economy.

Like I said before, no issue with the additional flights. If they want it and can justify it like all the other airlines (a la THY), then bring it on. Funny enought, THY wants to add Montreal.

Then again, since this is the Vancouver Sun, and they did say that Pearson Airport was causing airlines to choose Toronto over Vancouver thanks to the Federal Government. So, take it for its merits. If this was also the case then they Vancouver Sun and the multitude of other papers out west who decried the merger of AC and CP about job losses is quite ironic don't you think?

Competition is all good if there is an even playing field. Funny enought, AC should be a free market player, keep all the jobs in Canada, fly to all those remote and small communities and be forced to keep their head office where they are told too and forced to bilingual. The same people who complain about the national carrier which flies them to all those remote corners of the country on the other hand want competition to lower prices. Hmmmmm...last time I checked, you cannot have one with the other.

If you want competition, then you have to accept the fact that AC will need to be able to do what they need to do without intrusion from the govt. Then and only then will you have the free market that oh so many crave for. Until the, it is what it is.
__________________
Life is like a box of Chocolates! If you know better then everyone, then why ask?

Asia, here I come!!!
J.
Toronto_41 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 22nd, 2010, 09:07 PM   #1492
Toronto_41
Registered User
 
Toronto_41's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: YUL, YYZ, CDG, LGA
Posts: 256
Likes (Received): 65

Sun Country to Canada??

Sun Country has applied for and received a license to operate scheduled service in Canada. Where will they go?

Link
http://www.otc-cta.gc.ca/decision-ru...30202&lang=eng

MN Airlines, LLC carrying on business as Sun Country Airlines (applicant) has applied to the Canadian Transportation Agency (Agency) for a licence to operate a scheduled international service in accordance with the Air Transport Agreement between the Government of Canada and the Government of the United States of America signed on March 12, 2007 (Agreement).

The Government of the United States of America designated the applicant as eligible to hold the scheduled international licence pursuant to subsection 69(3) of the Canada Transportation Act (CTA).

The Agency is satisfied that the applicant meets all the applicable requirements of subsection 69(1) of the CTA. The Agency also finds that the pertinent terms and conditions of the Agreement have been complied with.

Further, with respect to this application, the applicant has undertaken that it will not contravene section 59 of the CTA prior to the issuance of the applied for licence.

Accordingly, the Agency approves the application for a licence to operate a scheduled international service.

Pursuant to subsection 71(1) of the CTA, the licence is subject to the conditions prescribed by the Air Transportation Regulations, SOR/88-58, as amended, and the following conditions:

1. The Licensee is authorized to operate a scheduled international service on the route(s) set out in the Agreement.

2. The Licensee is prohibited from carrying local traffic between points in Canada.

3. The scheduled international service is to be conducted in accordance with the Agreement and any applicable arrangements agreed to between Canada and the United States of America.
__________________
Life is like a box of Chocolates! If you know better then everyone, then why ask?

Asia, here I come!!!
J.
Toronto_41 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 23rd, 2010, 04:25 AM   #1493
ACT7
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,402
Likes (Received): 77

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toronto_41 View Post
Now I will not get into a dispute about this. What I will say is that I wish someone would do a study on the economic impact of AC and what it contributes to the Canadian Economy, direct and indirect. I am sure some of those 25,000 employees might be interested to know about the 2,800 direct and indirect employees that Emirates will give to the economy.

Like I said before, no issue with the additional flights. If they want it and can justify it like all the other airlines (a la THY), then bring it on. Funny enought, THY wants to add Montreal.

Then again, since this is the Vancouver Sun, and they did say that Pearson Airport was causing airlines to choose Toronto over Vancouver thanks to the Federal Government. So, take it for its merits. If this was also the case then they Vancouver Sun and the multitude of other papers out west who decried the merger of AC and CP about job losses is quite ironic don't you think?

Competition is all good if there is an even playing field. Funny enought, AC should be a free market player, keep all the jobs in Canada, fly to all those remote and small communities and be forced to keep their head office where they are told too and forced to bilingual. The same people who complain about the national carrier which flies them to all those remote corners of the country on the other hand want competition to lower prices. Hmmmmm...last time I checked, you cannot have one with the other.

If you want competition, then you have to accept the fact that AC will need to be able to do what they need to do without intrusion from the govt. Then and only then will you have the free market that oh so many crave for. Until the, it is what it is.
I agree, Air Canada is forced to do a lot of things against its will like serve the small communities as money losing routes. I know that's not Emirates' problem but if Air Canada was allowed to freely expand where it wanted without having to serve tiny communities in northern Ontario and BC, they might not be so adamant about Emirates' plans. I'm sure, a small partner airline would start up pick up the slack if AC left these communities. Don't even get me started on the head office and language nonsense that Air Canada is required to obide by. It's true that this has spiraled out of control more than it should have so it'll be interesting to see how it continues to play out down the road.
ACT7 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 23rd, 2010, 07:04 PM   #1494
nitzomoe
Scarebarian
 
nitzomoe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Calgary
Posts: 598
Likes (Received): 1

Air Canada as a former crown corporation and a recipient of considerable taxpayer dollars in the past is required to maintain a montreal head office and run some money losing routes. thats the cost of taking government money.

I think it would be wonderful to have flights out of calgary and vancouver, but not at the cost of allowing an airline, that knowingly dumps capacity and uses medieval labour practices to take over international routes in Canada.
nitzomoe no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 25th, 2010, 10:49 AM   #1495
YU-AMC
Aviation/Travel Nerd
 
YU-AMC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Whitchurch, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 9,243
Likes (Received): 1036

Quote:
Originally Posted by nitzomoe View Post
Air Canada as a former crown corporation and a recipient of considerable taxpayer dollars in the past is required to maintain a montreal head office and run some money losing routes. thats the cost of taking government money.

I think it would be wonderful to have flights out of calgary and vancouver, but not at the cost of allowing an airline, that knowingly dumps capacity and uses medieval labour practices to take over international routes in Canada.
Can you be more specific on the routes?
YU-AMC no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 25th, 2010, 06:50 PM   #1496
ACT7
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,402
Likes (Received): 77

Article: http://www.arabianbusiness.com/qatar...ks-357966.html

Qatar hopes to fare better than UAE in Canada air talks

Qatar and Canada began official talks in Doha on Monday to increase the number of flights between the two countries.

Qatar will be represented at the two-day summit by Abdul Aziz Mohammed Al Nuaimi, the chairman of the Civil Aviation Authority, Qatar News Agency said.

“The talks are expected to end with the signing of an agreement in the field of air transport services ensuring the rights of Qatar Airways to provide air flights to Canadian cities. The Canadian destinations are among the most important cities that Qatar Airways intends to fly to as part of its network expansion,” the QNA quoted Al Nuaimi as saying.

Earlier this month, similar talks between the UAE and Canada to increase the number of flights between the two countries ended without any agreement.

In a statement, Mohammed Abdullah Al-Ghafli, the UAE ambassador to Canada, said the failure to reach an agreement would impact bilateral relations.

"The UAE is disappointed that despite intensive negotiations over the last five years the UAE and Canada have been unable to arrive at an agreement on expanding the number of flights between the two countries,” he said.

“It is unfortunate that this process has been so protracted and frustrating. The UAE entered negotiations in good faith on the understanding that a solution would be reached and that constructive ideas would be brought to the negotiating table.

“The fact that this has not come about undoubtedly affects the bilateral relationship.”

The UAE is Canada’s largest trade partner in the Middle East and North Africa (MENA) region: around 200 Canadian companies operate in the UAE today.

“Six flights per week does not service the economic needs of both countries or the potential for growth,” Al-Ghafli said.
ACT7 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 25th, 2010, 10:01 PM   #1497
yyzhyd
Registered User
 
yyzhyd's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Toronto
Posts: 646
Likes (Received): 9

Quote:
Originally Posted by YU-AMC View Post
I still think EK/Emirates will still destroy LH. Canadian market is just one small portion where local Canadians score some points by pretending how AC want to stick and help the european air carriers/partners. It's all about looking after their own asses. Emirates are already tearing a part British Airways as we speak.
No diasagreement that EK would cause AF, KL, LH BA and of course AC huge issues as they funnel passengers via DXB. The question is that HOW would EK be able to do so... the answer is by capacity dumping via A380s on routes.

Free trade is a misnomer to those with some knowledge of how economies and markets work. What we really are talking about is FAIR trade.

Very few of us work for free do we? We obviously expect compensation of some type... very same in the real world when countries talk. If we think we're being underpaid etc. we look for a new job somewhere else.
Canada rightfully doesn't want to bend over to serve EK's interests for nothing. Canada/AC wants some return (i.e. definition of trade).

In the discussions with UAE, Canada has repeatedly asked for the ability to fly YYZ-DXB-South Asia with the ability to pick up passengers in DXB both ways as a condition for more frequencies.
This would result in a much fairer agreement with EK (though not ideal) and then let the market dictate who would win... my guess would be a draw as AC would get most of the Canada originating traffic due to their Aeroplan membership numbers.

But EK/UAE was not willing to agree to this... now I could say what does EK this exceptionally run, profitable, growing airline have to fear of little old AC that everyone seems to bash... let the market dictate.
__________________
My Flickr photostream: http://www.flickr.com/Photos
My Airliners.net photos: http://www.airliners.net/Photos
yyzhyd no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 26th, 2010, 12:31 PM   #1498
YU-AMC
Aviation/Travel Nerd
 
YU-AMC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Whitchurch, Ontario, Canada
Posts: 9,243
Likes (Received): 1036

Hmm I am going to be direct on this one. LH is not my cup of tea. I do not like them, and that is why I am EK fan. LH is quilty as much as EK. Now you are going to say, what is this guy talking about...

I am confident that we can thank to LH for the reason why we dont have a single airline from the Balkan region, but Turkish here in YYZ. LH would come up with their propaganda discounted fare sale, and that is how CSA, Malev, maybe Balkan, Olympic pulled out of Pearson. Once the competition is out, back to same old predatory tactic. The main game plan is to funnel the traffic via Frankfurt. (just like EK) Once that is done, than we get scripted propaganda how Central/Eastern Europe has got thin/low yield markets and so on, the air carriers should not be going after these markets from Usa and Canada. This kind of issues do not get called out because LH is part of SA, as well as good friend of AC.

That is my 0.02c.

Quote:
Originally Posted by yyzhyd View Post
No diasagreement that EK would cause AF, KL, LH BA and of course AC huge issues as they funnel passengers via DXB. The question is that HOW would EK be able to do so... the answer is by capacity dumping via A380s on routes.

Free trade is a misnomer to those with some knowledge of how economies and markets work. What we really are talking about is FAIR trade.

Very few of us work for free do we? We obviously expect compensation of some type... very same in the real world when countries talk. If we think we're being underpaid etc. we look for a new job somewhere else.
Canada rightfully doesn't want to bend over to serve EK's interests for nothing. Canada/AC wants some return (i.e. definition of trade).

In the discussions with UAE, Canada has repeatedly asked for the ability to fly YYZ-DXB-South Asia with the ability to pick up passengers in DXB both ways as a condition for more frequencies.
This would result in a much fairer agreement with EK (though not ideal) and then let the market dictate who would win... my guess would be a draw as AC would get most of the Canada originating traffic due to their Aeroplan membership numbers.

But EK/UAE was not willing to agree to this... now I could say what does EK this exceptionally run, profitable, growing airline have to fear of little old AC that everyone seems to bash... let the market dictate.
YU-AMC no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 26th, 2010, 07:24 PM   #1499
Rohne
Schwarzkutte
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Franconofurd
Posts: 830
Likes (Received): 361

OMG.
Have you ever heard of Hub&Spoke? That's what all airlines do, because outside of London or New York, you could never fill a long haul plane solely based on O&D traffic. But it's definitely not LH that there are no eastern European airlines flying to Canada. Most of them don't fly long haul anymore at all - and not because of LH but because of weak demand from their home markets, mismanagement, etc. Eastern Europe isn't populated densely, and economy is still far behind western Europe. Even if LH and FRA didn't exist, there wouldn't be a single more flight from eastern Europe to Canada...
But in contrast to Eastern Europe or the Emirates, there is strong demand for flights from Canada to the economical powerhouse Germany. But of course, these need additional feed to be operated profitably. Hubbing in FRA and MUC only helps AC and LH to sustain these flights. If not, Calgary, Vancouver, Montreal and especially Ottawa would lose their (especially economically) important connections to Germany and business travellers in Toronto would have much less choice of flying times.
Same applies for AF in CDG, BA in LHR, etc (and all over the world i.e. CX at HKG. QF at SYD, JL/NH at NRT, ...). If all those carriers didn't hub, there wouldn't be a single flight from Canada to Europe, except of LHR.
LH is aggressive, but definitely not predatory (in contrast to EK). And LH doesn't funnel all its traffic through FRA. LH has a second hub in MUC. ZRH (through LX), LHR (through BD) and VIE (through OS) are LH hubs, too. More than any other European airline has. SK and LO with their hubs also rely on LH.
So base your accusations on something more than just your impression!

Last edited by Rohne; October 26th, 2010 at 07:57 PM.
Rohne no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 26th, 2010, 08:43 PM   #1500
hkskyline
Hong Kong
 
hkskyline's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 86,889
Likes (Received): 18157

Quote:
Originally Posted by yyzhyd View Post
No diasagreement that EK would cause AF, KL, LH BA and of course AC huge issues as they funnel passengers via DXB. The question is that HOW would EK be able to do so... the answer is by capacity dumping via A380s on routes.

Free trade is a misnomer to those with some knowledge of how economies and markets work. What we really are talking about is FAIR trade.

Very few of us work for free do we? We obviously expect compensation of some type... very same in the real world when countries talk. If we think we're being underpaid etc. we look for a new job somewhere else.
Canada rightfully doesn't want to bend over to serve EK's interests for nothing. Canada/AC wants some return (i.e. definition of trade).

In the discussions with UAE, Canada has repeatedly asked for the ability to fly YYZ-DXB-South Asia with the ability to pick up passengers in DXB both ways as a condition for more frequencies.
This would result in a much fairer agreement with EK (though not ideal) and then let the market dictate who would win... my guess would be a draw as AC would get most of the Canada originating traffic due to their Aeroplan membership numbers.

But EK/UAE was not willing to agree to this... now I could say what does EK this exceptionally run, profitable, growing airline have to fear of little old AC that everyone seems to bash... let the market dictate.
What the Canadians are asking for is significantly more than what UAE wants. Canada is asking for 5th freedom out of Dubai, which is a world of a difference than UAE flying people to end-point Canadian cities. Of course they'll refuse.
__________________
Hong Kong Photo Gallery - Click Here for the Hong Kong Galleries

World Photo Gallery - | St. Petersburg, Russia | Pyongyang | Tokyo | Istanbul | Dubai | Shanghai | Mumbai | Bangkok | Sydney

New York, London, Prague, Iceland, Rocky Mountains, Angkor Wat, Sri Lanka, Poland, Myanmar, and much more!
hkskyline no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
canada, canadian airports, northamerica airport hubs, toronto

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 08:12 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium