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Old October 29th, 2010, 04:08 AM   #1521
yyzer
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Canada & Qatar Sign Air Agreement

from Friday's (Oct 29) Gulf Times.....

Quote:
Air transport deal signed with Canada

Qatar and Canada yesterday signed an air transport agreement between the two countries following three-day talks in Doha. The agreement was signed on behalf of Qatar by Chairman of the Civil Aviation Authority Abdul Aziz Mohamed al-Nuaimi and on behalf of Canadian government by Robert Dre. The agreement will allow Qatar Airways to operate three passenger flights a week as well as three cargo flights. CEO of Qatar Airways Akbar al-Baker attended the meeting.
http://www.gulf-times.com/site/topic...7&parent_id=56
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Old October 29th, 2010, 04:12 AM   #1522
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Canada & Switzerland Update Air Agreement

Canada, Switzerland ink airline deal

Last Updated: Wednesday, October 27, 2010 | 3:32 PM ET

CBC News

The governments of Canada and Switzerland have signed an enhanced open skies agreement that offers more flexibility on flights between Canada and Europe.

Aircraft of Swiss Air Lines sit on the tarmat at Zurich Airport, Switzerland. A new agreement between Canada and Switzerland is expected to enhance air travel between the two countries. (Steffen Schmidt/Associated Press)
Canada and the European Union signed an agreement last year that allows airlines the freedom to operate direct flights between any of the 27 EU countries and Canada.

According to the federal government and Air Canada, the new agreement with Switzerland takes that relationship to a new level.

One of the key changes allows airlines from Canada or Switzerland to stop in each other's territory and continue on to a third destination country.

In a statement to CBC News, Air Canada called the agreement an enhancement of current arrangements.

"It means that there are no limitations to capacity, code sharing arrangements, as well as tariff provisions," said Air Canada.

An Air Canada spokesman also told CBC News the deal could lead to better schedules, more flight options and additional destinations.

Air Canada and Swiss Air are already Star Alliance partners.


Read more: http://www.cbc.ca/consumer/story/201...#ixzz13hpL2Lvu
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Old October 29th, 2010, 04:14 AM   #1523
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Canada & Jamaica Sign Open Skies Agreement

Jamaica and Canada Sign New Air Service Agreements

Issued by: The office of the Prime Minister
Wednesday, October 20, 2010


Jamaica and Canada have signed a new air service agreement, replacing the agreement signed on October 18, 1985 and subsequently amended in 1987.

Making the disclosure this morning (Oct 20) at the weekly post cabinet press conference at Jamaica House, Information Minister Daryl Vaz, said the agreement was negotiated in the context of the Open skies Policy which had been previously agreed .

That agreement included an open route schedule, liberal code sharing arrangements and inter-modal cargo operations.

http://www.jis.gov.jm/officePM/html/...AGREEMENTS.asp
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Old October 29th, 2010, 05:32 AM   #1524
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Great news all 'round. I think we should expect to see Qatar here by the summer, in time to compete with Egyptair and Ethiopian. It would be great to see Swiss Air Lines back at YYZ!
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Old October 29th, 2010, 11:10 AM   #1525
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Originally Posted by hkskyline View Post
This is why I think AC's operating model is wrong to begin with. They're forced to compete in market but have a government mandate looming overhead. But then is it other carriers' faults they can wrestle more power with their states or even compete on market forces?

I also think operating an international carrier from city-states is even harder, since the population is small so they really rely on transfer traffic or a very mobile demographic. It's hard to open routes when there is no domestic network to funnel traffic through a main airport. The catchment area narrows considerably. But here in HK we did it while playing by market forces.

Meanwhile, Ottawa may complain of all sorts of state support for EK but at the same time they loom over AC like a hawk, demanding them to fly unprofitable routes and now compete on perhaps profitable ones on the international arena.

An AC and AI partnership, along with LH, will likely spur antitrust implications. A monopoly will do no good to all. That's why Ottawa is so afraid of EK coming in because they're capable of ofering a low-cost solution which AC cannot compete since it doesn't fit the free market economic model to begin with. So when someone else can do it better, they get scared. Hence, no further flights.

Opening more bilateral frequencies is not the same as actually starting flights. AC is clearly not using what it can fly to the maximum now. I think it'll be hard already with an A380 coming from Dubai.

The stalemate will not likely be resolved any time soon, but to claim EK is unfairly competing because of government support is a bit misleading considering AC is still heavily-influenced by Ottawa as well.
Some very good points. Going back to EK and AC competition field, I have been told that the Western air carriers have a different structure of labour. That is an adventage for Emirates. Once you add up an A380, DXB as a hub, AC would not have a chance with EK.
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Old October 29th, 2010, 11:14 AM   #1526
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Great news all 'round. I think we should expect to see Qatar here by the summer, in time to compete with Egyptair and Ethiopian. It would be great to see Swiss Air Lines back at YYZ!
So expect a 77W? Also Ethiopean 777 image came up in airliners forums. So expect that one soon.
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Old October 29th, 2010, 04:36 PM   #1527
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YU-AMC View Post
So expect a 77W? Also Ethiopean 777 image came up in airliners forums. So expect that one soon.
If they want to quickly start the DOH-YYZ route (e.g. Mar. 2011) the limited marketing time may result in a B77L for a while but eventually it will eventually be a B77W.

IMHO ET will probably not start YYZ until their 787s deliveries commence.
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Old October 29th, 2010, 04:53 PM   #1528
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yyzhyd View Post
If they want to quickly start the DOH-YYZ route (e.g. Mar. 2011) the limited marketing time may result in a B77L for a while but eventually it will eventually be a B77W.

IMHO ET will probably not start YYZ until their 787s deliveries commence.
I remember almost 3 years back now Qatar did some heavy advertising on the TTC so a spring startup may not be too far fetched, and yes it will likely be with a 77L to begin with and future upgrade to a 77W. My understanding was that ET would be using new 77L's on the YYZ route but who knows. MS for sure has stated that it will be using 77W's on the route.
I wonder with the Swiss agreement which route we'll see...the obvious choice being Zurich, or maybe SR will just tack on a codeshare on AC's YYZ-ZRH run. It would be nice to see a double daily to ZRH on both AC and SR, and maybe a proper non-stop Toronto-Geneva flight as well.
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Old October 29th, 2010, 05:51 PM   #1529
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YU-AMC View Post
Some very good points. Going back to EK and AC competition field, I have been told that the Western air carriers have a different structure of labour. That is an adventage for Emirates. Once you add up an A380, DXB as a hub, AC would not have a chance with EK.
Some Asian carriers, for example, can put workers on leave during an economic slump, lowering their costs. Don't think the unions in North America will likely let that take place so easily.
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Old October 30th, 2010, 12:23 AM   #1530
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Yet with many many advantages as you've listed and a perfect geographical location of a transit hub for worldwide connections EK has yet to turn an operational profit. Things that make you go hmmm....
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Old October 30th, 2010, 05:16 AM   #1531
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Originally Posted by hkskyline View Post
Some Asian carriers, for example, can put workers on leave during an economic slump, lowering their costs. Don't think the unions in North America will likely let that take place so easily.
+1

Also you have a chance to bring on one more FA that will make a lot difference. When it comes to labour issues, the perfect example is Warsaw where Canadian and American air carriers don't want to compete with LOT.
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Old October 30th, 2010, 01:59 PM   #1532
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Originally Posted by yyzhyd View Post
If they want to quickly start the DOH-YYZ route (e.g. Mar. 2011) the limited marketing time may result in a B77L for a while but eventually it will eventually be a B77W.

IMHO ET will probably not start YYZ until their 787s deliveries commence.
I suppose an 77W/L is too much of a metal for this new route? Lol let me snap a few images of their 777s and let them use whatever they got....
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Old October 31st, 2010, 09:17 PM   #1533
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I was expecting this kind of answer. I love how you say that demand if not there in EE, but you ignore DME/SVO, PRG, WAW. This kinda of propaganda was expected. We have been listening this kinda of BS for last 30-40 years.
It's not propaganda or whatever you call it, it's fact!

I didn't say there's no demand at all. But it's far from being enough to profitably operate flights between there and Canada.
PRG: home carrier is Czech Airlines, doesn't fly long haul at all, is SkyTeam member (so you should blame AF/KL if you can't resist).
WAW: home carrier is LOT, StarAlliance member, and indeed has flights WAW-YYZ (LO 42)!
SVO/DME: home carriers are Transaero (unaligned), Aeroflot (SkyTeam) and S7 (OneWorld). Those aren't affected by Lufthansa at all, at least when it comes to Canada.

Germany (Europe's highest population and strongest economy) is Canada's second largest european O&D market behind the UK.
But LH only has one daily flight between FRA and YYZ, YYC and YVR (AC additionally flies from YYC, YUL, YOW and twice daily from YYZ to FRA). Not even operated with A388 or B744 (only YVR is planned to be served with B744 again). Don't forget that Lufthansa has a large portion of India - North America traffic (as FRA is far better located for such one-stop flights than i.e. DXB where EK has a large piece of this cake, too). Compare this with the flights offered from London or Paris, and your "funneling all traffic through FRA" "argument" is even becoming more absurd.
Lufthansa doesn't even prevent AC from opening their own flights to anywhere outside FRA. Just look at the European networks of US, UA or CO which all belong to StarAlliance, too.
So if anybody here is writing bullshit, then it's you!

Last edited by Rohne; October 31st, 2010 at 09:24 PM.
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Old November 1st, 2010, 08:52 AM   #1534
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Interesting posts YYZhyd... I guess a lot of analysis goes into a topic like this (the fight between AC and EK).

To tell you the truth, I think there are pros and cons of each side of the competition. In other words, to allow EK daily flights will promote other airlines to compete harder like AC, but to tell you the truth, If EK gets it daily or twice daily flights out of toronto as it wants, it will take over the whole international competition making it the only carrier serving intl routes- bankrupting many other airlines that fly to toronto.

A question to AC flyers, would you rather recieve aeroplan miles and fly AC more who dont consider adequate service of passengers in their business structure, compared to EK who do consider it in their business structure? GOSH! I think thats one of the reasons why EK is winning the competition.
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Old November 1st, 2010, 05:03 PM   #1535
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YYZplanner View Post
Interesting posts YYZhyd... I guess a lot of analysis goes into a topic like this (the fight between AC and EK).

To tell you the truth, I think there are pros and cons of each side of the competition. In other words, to allow EK daily flights will promote other airlines to compete harder like AC, but to tell you the truth, If EK gets it daily or twice daily flights out of toronto as it wants, it will take over the whole international competition making it the only carrier serving intl routes- bankrupting many other airlines that fly to toronto.

A question to AC flyers, would you rather recieve aeroplan miles and fly AC more who dont consider adequate service of passengers in their business structure, compared to EK who do consider it in their business structure? GOSH! I think thats one of the reasons why EK is winning the competition.
Yes a lot of analysis from many angles is required. It's not a black and white issue at all.

EK cannot "take over" with a daily flight to YYZ. LOL
There would be less resistance from Canada if EK had just been patient from the beginning. The UAE bilateral started off with 3 weekly (like everyone else), then increased to 6. EK has insisted from the start that it wanted 7 weekly or nothing... this is why the relationship has always been strained.

Can I ask how many times you've actually flown on AC on which to make that assumption/conclusion about their service?
Their international service in J and Y class is superior to a vast number of "major" carriers such as UA, AA, CO, BA, KL, LH, AF the only real exceptions being very good Asian carriers such as NH, CX, SQ.
EK's service between YYZ-DXB is great but their service between DXB and Gulf/South Asia is spotty and inconsistent at best.
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Old November 1st, 2010, 06:50 PM   #1536
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Qatar Airways urges more access to Canadian market

DOHA, Oct 31 (Reuters) - Qatar Airways' chief executive called on Sunday for greater access for the fast expanding Gulf carrier to the Canadian market, saying the development of bilateral trade ties may depend on it.

"We have Canadian companies trying to sell us equipment. But trade is a two-way street. We will give them trade, in return we want to access their markets," Chief Executive Akbar Al Baker told a conference in the capital, Doha.

The rapid expansion of Qatar Airways, Dubai's Emirates, and Etihad of Abu Dhabi has unnerved older airlines and fuelled mutual accusations of protectionism. Many carriers fear Gulf-based superjumbos will drain their own hubs.

Canada's military lost access this month to a military camp near Dubai, which it used to support troops in Afghanistan, after Ottawa refused to allow Emirates and Etihad to increase flights to Canada.

"They just want to throw peanuts at us. But the genie is out of the bottle. They will not be able to restrain our capacity," Baker said.

On Saturday, Qatar Airways confirmed that it had carried an explosive package that was later seized in Dubai. The parcel had been flown from Yemen with a stop-over in the Qatari capital Doha, it said.

Without referring to the security scare over the explosive packages bound for the United States, Baker said security was a problem for all airlines .

"It is everybody's problem, because we are all in the same boat. But we are overreacting sometimes by putting passengers through excessive inconvenience," he said, citing the removal of belts, flat shoes and laptop computers as excessive.

Baker said he was less than impressed with security on internal U.S. flights recently.

"Quite frankly, I found it very lax. But you cannot make anything 100 percent. No matter how many checks you do, there will still be cracks. The only way to fill the cracks is to invest in technology."

Baker said he expected more consolidation in the industry.

"There has been over the last 40 years a fashion to launch airlines. Then the recession came, and some folded. We are expecting more to fold. So there will be automatic and natural consolidation, without having to spend money on this," he said.

"Air France, Lufthansa -- they all want to protect their turf. But they do not have the capacity to grow. They are trying to blame us for their shortcomings. Instead they should fix their own inefficiencies."

Qatar, the world's largest exporter of liquefied natural gas, is building a new airport with the capacity to accommodate 50 million passengers per year.

Construction on the New Doha International Airport (NDIA) will be partially completed by October of next year, with total completion slated for February 2012, Bernardo Gogna, director of the NDIA, said at the conference.

Air Canada's chief executive this year accused Emirates of wanting to "flood" Canadian skies with airline seats so it can scoop up travellers and divert them through Dubai.
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Old November 2nd, 2010, 08:22 AM   #1537
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Very good points Always making me more knowledgable on issues like these.

Think about it logically. In the 1970's, AC would offer one of the best services compared to any other airline. What happened now? How come that has changed so much ever since?

If the case was "EK cannot take over with twice daily flights out of YYZ", why are they being denied more access to YYZ despite the facts that they are "stealing passengers that transfer to south Asia", them getting increased frequencies not in Canadian interest, and the most obvious of how Ottawa is trying to protect AC.

Think about it, if EK comes twice daily to toronto, we can make a clear assumtion that it would hurt AI, AC as well as Jet Airways very much in toronto.

By the way, I've flown AC to Europe a couple of times, flown them to the U.S a couple of times as well as in Canada.

Quote:
Originally Posted by yyzhyd View Post
Yes a lot of analysis from many angles is required. It's not a black and white issue at all.

EK cannot "take over" with a daily flight to YYZ. LOL
There would be less resistance from Canada if EK had just been patient from the beginning. The UAE bilateral started off with 3 weekly (like everyone else), then increased to 6. EK has insisted from the start that it wanted 7 weekly or nothing... this is why the relationship has always been strained.

Can I ask how many times you've actually flown on AC on which to make that assumption/conclusion about their service?
Their international service in J and Y class is superior to a vast number of "major" carriers such as UA, AA, CO, BA, KL, LH, AF the only real exceptions being very good Asian carriers such as NH, CX, SQ.
EK's service between YYZ-DXB is great but their service between DXB and Gulf/South Asia is spotty and inconsistent at best.
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Old November 2nd, 2010, 08:52 AM   #1538
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Yes - Emirates immediate threat is India. East Asia is a possibility, but the flight time will likely be too long than to fly westbound. I don't think they pose a great threat to Canada due to the geography. Australia should be far more concerned, because it would impact every single route west to Europe, a key vital link.
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Old November 2nd, 2010, 08:12 PM   #1539
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I think this is an interesting article on the differences in policy between Canada and Australia on the EK/EY issue...

Articel: http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...ddle-east.html

01/11/10
SOURCE:Airline Business
Mixed messages on the Middle East
By David Knibb

The Gulf carriers want greater access to the Australian and Canadian markets. Are they being blocked or encouraged?

Emirates and other Middle East carriers have asked Australia and Canada for more capacity, but the response from each has been dramatically different.

Australia has allowed Emirates and Etihad to operate 60 weekly non-stops into Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane and Perth combined, plus another 31 weekly one-stop flights. By contrast, each carrier enjoys only three weekly flights to Canada - all to Toronto. One market has been generous, the other closely guarded.

National carriers in both countries have criticised what they claim are the aggressive expansion plans of Emirates. The latest volley in this squabble is from Alan Joyce, chief executive of Qantas, who urges Australia to show more restraint in handing out capacity to Middle East carriers. "The capacity that these guys have been hammering on the door [about] for some time is available and they're not utilising [it]," Joyce told national media. Even now, he complains, Emirates is routing some non-stop services through Bangkok because of inadequate demand for the direct Dubai flights.

Hubs become stubs

Calin Rovinescu, Air Canada chief executive, is more vocal, warning Canadian airports that Emirates' designs on Canada would turn their "hubs into stubs". The issue provoked lively debate between Rovinescu and leaders of the Middle East giants at June's IATA annual meeting in Berlin. Also, during the recent Routes Forum in Vancouver, Emirates senior vice-president for cargo Ram Menem joined the debate, calling "restrictive countries, such as Canada, pennywise and pound foolish".

With its current Airbus A380 loads to and from Toronto exceeding 90%, he says Emirates "would cherish the opportunity to operate more passenger flights into Canada". In an obvious attack on Canada, Menem added "some countries tend to protect the national carrier and miss out on greater opportunities".

Transport Canada will not publically enter a debate with any airline, but says the current bilateral grants sufficient rights to serve all origin and destination traffic between Canada and the United Arab Emirates. "UAE carriers transport a large number of passengers to third country markets," it notes. "This limits the number of seats available for people who want to travel between Canada and the UAE." Canada's regulator is in no hurry to grant more capacity to Emirates and Etihad.

A closer look at the Australian and Canadian markets offers clues as to why the two governments have such different attitudes. Emirates does not compete against any Australian carrier between Australia and Asia. It would make no sense for anyone flying between Australia and Asia to use Dubai as a connecting hub. In the first place, connecting is not necessary because of the number of direct Asia-Australia flights. And even if they did connect, Dubai is thousands of kilometres out of the way.

The real competition between Australian and UAE carriers is about Europe. Qantas only flies to London and Frankfurt in Europe, so passengers between Australia and any other European city must connect somewhere. Dubai and Abu Dhabi are just as well suited for this as London or Frankfurt.

The main threat UAE carriers pose for Qantas is in siphoning off Australia-Europe connecting traffic. Qantas carries enough O&D traffic between Australia and London and Frankfurt to allow both routes to survive even if every connecting passenger switched to Emirates or Etihad.

The plan by Qantas unit Jetstar to launch Singapore connections on some thinner routes into Europe and the Middle East does not change these realities. It is still a contest over who will carry the connecting traffic and where it will connect.

Canada's situation is both similar and different. As in the case of Australia-Asia, Emirates and Etihad are unlikely to divert Canada-Europe traffic because Dubai and Abu Dhabi are unnecessary connections too far out of the way.

The difference is that Air Canada operates 30 year-round routes between eight Canadian cities and 13 in Europe - even more in high season. Some, Air Canada says, are too thin to survive solely on O&D traffic. They are supported by traffic that continues beyond Europe - traffic that the Middle Eastern carriers might seek.

Route viability

Air Canada's Rovinescu cites Ottawa-Frankfurt as an example. "When you look at who travels on this flight, only 15% are people going between Ottawa and Frankfurt. The other 85% are connecting in Frankfurt to fly somewhere else. If another carrier siphons off even just the 15% headed for the Middle East, then the route is no longer viable."

So Canadian transport officials fear that if they grant the UAE more capacity than its airlines need for O&D traffic, those carriers would divert connecting traffic from Canada-Europe. That would jeopardise the future of some of those thinner routes. This is a different issue than favouring one hub over another when traffic must connect somewhere. That is the situation in Australia. In Canada, it is a question of preserving routes. New long-range aircraft like Boeing's 787 may change these dynamics, but for now terms like "liberal" or "protectionist" seem inadequate to explain the different national interests at play.

The intensity of these interests is revealed by the recent threat from the UAE to end Canadian use of a military base near Dubai unless Canada grants more rights to Emirates and Etihad. Canadian troops use the base as a staging area for operations in Afghanistan. UAE's move threatens to escalate rather than resolve this dispute.
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Old November 7th, 2010, 04:43 PM   #1540
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Im suprised nobody commented on this earlier but..
i know wikipedia isnt a reliable source but it does say this:

Air Atlanta Icelandic operated for Canada Extra Seasonal: Glasgow-International [begins June 23], London-Gatwick [begins June 23] Terminal 3
and
Monarch Airlines Seasonal: Birmingham (UK) [Begins May 7], London-Gatwick [Begins May 6] Terminal 3
is this real info??
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