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Old May 18th, 2007, 04:14 AM   #161
hkskyline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ACT7 View Post
True, but Newark's not even in the top 30 for international traffic. And I agree with Filip, Europe has almost nothing but international traffic, same with Dubai and Southeast Asia, so I think Pearson's numbers are very impressive.
In 2005, the New York area international airports (JFK, EWR, LGA) had a total of 29.6 million international passengers.

Source : http://www.panynj.gov/CommutingTrave...affic_2005.pdf
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Old May 18th, 2007, 06:54 AM   #162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hkskyline View Post
In 2005, the New York area international airports (JFK, EWR, LGA) had a total of 29.6 million international passengers.

Source : http://www.panynj.gov/CommutingTrave...affic_2005.pdf
No one's disputing NYC's status as an international hub, but we need to compare apples to apples, ie. airport to airport. Also, the true greater NYC metro population is about 3 times higher than Toronto's, so YYZ having such a large share of the North American international passenger traffic is quite impressive.
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Old May 18th, 2007, 08:53 AM   #163
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New York City had 8.1 million people according to 2005 estimates. I can't find the total population including the surrounding catchment areas. Toronto's CMA population was just over 5 million in 2006. I think a useful analysis would be based on the catchment area and traffic totals rather than proportions. I expect a much larger proportion of domestic traffic for American airports since there are many more cities for connectivity and a much larger population base. That in itself doesn't mean much when total international traffic is still very large.
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Old May 18th, 2007, 08:00 PM   #164
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The Toronto Census Metropolitan Area have 5.1 million residents, within that the Toronto City only have a population of 2.5 million.

The Statistical Metropolitan Area of New York have 18.8 million residents, where New York City have 8.1 million.

Please ensure correctness of your facts, it becomes misleading.

And those number are not estimates, they are measured census results with a statistical correctness of 95 percent.
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Old May 18th, 2007, 08:03 PM   #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hkskyline View Post
New York City had 8.1 million people according to 2005 estimates. I can't find the total population including the surrounding catchment areas. Toronto's CMA population was just over 5 million in 2006. I think a useful analysis would be based on the catchment area and traffic totals rather than proportions. I expect a much larger proportion of domestic traffic for American airports since there are many more cities for connectivity and a much larger population base. That in itself doesn't mean much when total international traffic is still very large.
Total surrounding area for NYC is somewhere in the range of 24 million people, so it's no surprise that the total international traffic volume for all three airports is so large. Add to the mix that NYC is I'd say in the top five for international appeal and the numbers make sense. I think another comparison to examine would be to look at number of international destinations bewteen JFK and YYZ.
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Old May 18th, 2007, 09:07 PM   #166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UD2 View Post
The Toronto Census Metropolitan Area have 5.1 million residents, within that the Toronto City only have a population of 2.5 million.

The Statistical Metropolitan Area of New York have 18.8 million residents, where New York City have 8.1 million.

Please ensure correctness of your facts, it becomes misleading.

And those number are not estimates, they are measured census results with a statistical correctness of 95 percent.
The SMA for New York goes all the way down to Trenton, which would be covered by another major international airport in Philadelphia, which also has a lot of international connections as a US Airways hub. Hence, using SMA alone for New York would not be a meaningful catchment base for their 3 international airports.

Toronto CMA's only major international gateway is Pearson. There is no other alternative that comes remotely close.

Pearson is likely to be the sole international gateway for the Toronto CMA, but New York SMA has more than JFK, LGA, and EWR.

The fact that there is 95% confidence internal means they are not exact numbers, as much as the methodology they use to gather the results tries to minimize the error as much as possible. As these are not actual numbers, they are best estimates. The US government doesn't attempt to make sure they are 100% accurate. That's not feasible.
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Last edited by hkskyline; May 18th, 2007 at 09:20 PM.
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Old May 19th, 2007, 01:00 AM   #167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hkskyline View Post
The SMA for New York goes all the way down to Trenton, which would be covered by another major international airport in Philadelphia, which also has a lot of international connections as a US Airways hub. Hence, using SMA alone for New York would not be a meaningful catchment base for their 3 international airports.

Toronto CMA's only major international gateway is Pearson. There is no other alternative that comes remotely close.

Pearson is likely to be the sole international gateway for the Toronto CMA, but New York SMA has more than JFK, LGA, and EWR.

The fact that there is 95% confidence internal means they are not exact numbers, as much as the methodology they use to gather the results tries to minimize the error as much as possible. As these are not actual numbers, they are best estimates. The US government doesn't attempt to make sure they are 100% accurate. That's not feasible.
I kind'a regret bringing this up now. My point at the beginning was to be nothing more than Pearson's run up the ladder in terms of international traffic. 3 years ago when Pearson was No. 4 in NA, no one said squat about NYC because it was expected that NYC be No. 1. Let's just agree to disagree about this one.
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Old May 19th, 2007, 04:20 AM   #168
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all very good points, and all very correct.

cool
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Old May 19th, 2007, 04:21 AM   #169
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WOW Toronto is no.1 in NA now thats very impressive! Go Toronto!
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Old May 29th, 2007, 10:29 PM   #170
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From a senior marketing official at GTAA, it seems that Emirates is very close to making an announcement regarding flying to YYZ. He couldn't say when, but that seems to be the word. This is becoming painful to wait for...
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Old May 30th, 2007, 01:42 AM   #171
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ACT7, I truly hope you are right....methinks we will be hearing from Kuwait Airways pretty soon too.....
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Old May 30th, 2007, 04:40 AM   #172
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WOW! so where are we standing at now for potential/upcomming airlines at yyz?
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Old May 30th, 2007, 08:37 PM   #173
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Here is a bit of intersting news. Looks like MAS (Malaysian Airline System) has applied to and received approval for charter flights into Canada. Attached is a link to the Canadian Transportation Agency (CTA) that shows it was approved.

http://www.cta-otc.gc.ca/rulings-dec...-A-2007_e.html

Here is a copy of the actual information in the link:

Decision No. 273-A-2007
May 29, 2007

APPLICATION by Malaysian Airline System Berhad carrying on business as Malaysia Airlines pursuant to subsection 73(2) of the Canada Transportation Act, S.C., 1996, c. 10, for a licence to operate a non-scheduled international service to transport goods on a charter basis between points in Malaysia and points in Canada.
File No. M4212/M216-2
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Malaysian Airline System Berhad carrying on business as Malaysia Airlines (hereinafter the applicant) has applied to the Canadian Transportation Agency (hereinafter the Agency) for a licence to operate the service set out in the title. The application was received on March 14, 2007 and was complete and ready for processing on May 25, 2007.

The applicant filed an affidavit attesting that within the twelve months preceding the filing of the application it did not contravene section 59 of the Canada Transportation Act (hereinafter the CTA) in that it has not sold, caused to be sold or publicly offered for sale in Canada transportation in respect of the applied for air service without holding the required licence. The applicant has also undertaken in respect of the air service applied for that it will not contravene section 59 of the CTA prior to the issuance of the applied for licence. The Agency is not aware of any evidence that the applicant contravened section 59 of the CTA within the preceding twelve months.

The Agency has reviewed the application and is satisfied that the applicant meets the requirements of subsection 73(2) of the CTA.

Accordingly, the Agency will issue to the applicant a licence authorizing it to operate a non-scheduled international service to transport goods on a charter basis between points in Malaysia and points in Canada.

Pursuant to subsection 74(1) of the CTA, the Agency deems it appropriate to include the terms and conditions set out below in the licence to be issued pursuant to this Decision.

The licence to be issued pursuant to this Decision shall be subject, in addition to the conditions prescribed by the Air Transportation Regulations, SOR/88-58, as amended (hereinafter the ATR), to the requirements to hold a Canadian aviation document issued by the Minister of Transport and to have prescribed liability insurance coverage as set out in section 7 of the ATR, and to the following terms and conditions to which the licence is made subject pursuant to subsection 74(1) of the CTA:

1. The Licensee is authorized to transport goods on a charter basis between points in Malaysia and points in Canada.

2. The Licensee is prohibited from carrying local traffic between points in Canada.

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Old May 30th, 2007, 09:16 PM   #174
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yyzer View Post
ACT7, I truly hope you are right....methinks we will be hearing from Kuwait Airways pretty soon too.....
I think you're right about that, and we should hear word from Aer Lingus as well I'm assuming. Do you think MAS will include YYZ in their plans?
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Old May 31st, 2007, 01:29 AM   #175
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strange to see MH asking for charter flights...I can't see YYZ as a charter destination for them...maybe YVR or YYC...

as for the rest, bring 'em on...
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Old May 31st, 2007, 05:38 AM   #176
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MH may be looking to fly to Vancouver, just like the other SE Asian airlines - none of which go beyond YVR to other Canadian cities.
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Old May 31st, 2007, 05:53 AM   #177
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for MAS the agreement is only for Vancouver through Taipei
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Old May 31st, 2007, 06:35 AM   #178
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Has anyone heard any updates about the GTAA's plans to develop the VISCOUNT land? They were offering businesses the opportunity to build hotels, etc.
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Old May 31st, 2007, 02:55 PM   #179
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They took the PDF off their website... The announcement was to be made back in April AFAIK...

Apparently we have Emirates coming Oct 28th, Kuwait Airways possibly too, now I'm waiting for Qatar (I've been seeing their ads everywhere) and Air Canada vying for exemption to fly to Singapore (maybe from Vancouver) but this could mean a new bilateral and SQ at YYZ!
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Old May 31st, 2007, 06:43 PM   #180
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yyzer View Post
strange to see MH asking for charter flights...I can't see YYZ as a charter destination for them...maybe YVR or YYC...

as for the rest, bring 'em on...
These will be MASKargo flights to Vancouver.
Although MASKargo flights operating KUL-FRA-YYZ is not outside the realm of possibility.
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