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Old February 8th, 2011, 04:47 PM   #1861
ACT7
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Originally Posted by YU-AMC View Post
Now going back to Austrian and their plans, what can we expect from them? Are going to upgrade their 767 on route to YYZ? Having LOT upgrade to 787, Alitalia to A330, what can we expect from OS? I think they are owned by LH.. LH may decide their faith. Also I used to see some rumours on airliners that they may halt their their North American destinations. Hmm could be true since I don't see AC or DL/CO at VIE. It could be true because I doubt it's large market. Any take on this?
OS's YYZ route is filled up predominantly with Romanian and central European nationals (hence the codeshare with Tarom). This is likely a large enough market, especially in the summer, so if they do cease their North American operations, my guess is that they would at least maintain a seasonal route. I don't know that they'll upgrade their aircraft any time soon though.
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Old February 8th, 2011, 07:34 PM   #1862
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Final numbers as reported by the GTAA...

http://www.gtaa.com/local/files/en/C...c_Dec_2010.pdf
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Old February 9th, 2011, 02:54 AM   #1863
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OS's YYZ route is filled up predominantly with Romanian and central European nationals (hence the codeshare with Tarom). This is likely a large enough market, especially in the summer, so if they do cease their North American operations, my guess is that they would at least maintain a seasonal route. I don't know that they'll upgrade their aircraft any time soon though.
YYZHYD, that is true and I am sure the 763 is the right one, but their birds are getting older. Aren't they already 15 years old?
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Old February 9th, 2011, 03:02 AM   #1864
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OS's YYZ route is filled up predominantly with Romanian and central European nationals (hence the codeshare with Tarom). This is likely a large enough market, especially in the summer, so if they do cease their North American operations, my guess is that they would at least maintain a seasonal route. I don't know that they'll upgrade their aircraft any time soon though.
Yeah I knew that for sure. Look at their feed from the Balkans and EE/CE. What about the front cabin? Can they sustain some decent load in the front cabin? How is the premium traffic from Canada to Austria?

I flew OS once and they are provide the very basic longhaul service. I checked in at the beautiful T1 YYZ and that was the only positive side. The old terminal at VIE looked quite tired. The fleet of their 763 is in the same stage as their old terminal. They are not that cheap as well for what they offer.
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Old February 9th, 2011, 04:53 AM   #1865
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Yeah I knew that for sure. Look at their feed from the Balkans and EE/CE. What about the front cabin? Can they sustain some decent load in the front cabin? How is the premium traffic from Canada to Austria?

I flew OS once and they are provide the very basic longhaul service. I checked in at the beautiful T1 YYZ and that was the only positive side. The old terminal at VIE looked quite tired. The fleet of their 763 is in the same stage as their old terminal. They are not that cheap as well for what they offer.
I've never actually flown with them but people I know who have, have given the same feedback as you - basic service, nothing special. I think they have a niche market that works for them but I doubt very much that they see huge yields on any of their North American runs. It would be interesting to see if OK ever returns to YYZ what that might do to OS. Rumour has it that Canada will be lifting Czech visa restrictions soon so this may open up the Toronto-Prague route again once OK has enough A330's. I could see OK poaching passengers from OS in that case.
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Old February 9th, 2011, 05:41 AM   #1866
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I never knew CSA had any longhaul fleet left over since they halted YYZ/JFK, as well as the plan to get some A330s. Anyhow, PRG is a good candidate for YYZ. The purchasing power is there to sustain the service all year around. I am not sure about Malev, on top of it, I have been hearing bad news about Hungarian economy from TSX.
Now going back to Austrian, I think they barely make any profits since the target expat markets as I have pointed out. I was interested in their plans for the future. Overall, I am not fan of OS. To be honest, I could not care less since I fly into Belgrade due to much cheaper fares. I have seen Austrian nail people as high as 600 euros for VIE-SJJ segment on their North American flights. That's due to the luck of competition in SJJ. (600E/$850cad for a flight that is around 40-50minutes.)
All in all, it would be fun to see CSA return to YYZ. I do recall them having some very decent fares to that part of Europe. I am just afraid if LH may come up with promotions/sale deals and deliberately put them away.


Btw one more question, I have noticed some images on airlines of AirTransat A310 in Warsaw around 2002. Was that some short lived service? Any clue?




Quote:
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I've never actually flown with them but people I know who have, have given the same feedback as you - basic service, nothing special. I think they have a niche market that works for them but I doubt very much that they see huge yields on any of their North American runs. It would be interesting to see if OK ever returns to YYZ what that might do to OS. Rumour has it that Canada will be lifting Czech visa restrictions soon so this may open up the Toronto-Prague route again once OK has enough A330's. I could see OK poaching passengers from OS in that case.
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Old February 9th, 2011, 06:53 AM   #1867
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not worth the savings at all, having flown twice with them, its as bad as Saudia, Egyptair, or Syrianair. Prepare for entertaining times in Amman!
What r u talking about? Saudi Arabian Airlines is an amazing airline if you fly internationally with them. I flew it from LHR- JED and their service was amazing! It was a lot better than air canada's service from YYZ- LHR. I dont think AC stands a chance against airlines in the middle east like Emirates, Etihad, Saudi Arabian, Qatar, and much more bro.
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Old February 11th, 2011, 10:55 PM   #1868
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Posted in the Air Canada thread as well (figured it belongs in both places)...

Article: http://www.aviation.ca/content/view/9542/117/

AIR CANADA ADDS NEARLY HALF-A-MILLION SEATS TO AND FROM TORONTO WITH ITS SUMMER 2011 SCHEDULE

Written by Air Canada
Friday, 11 February 2011
MONTREAL - Air Canada announced today that through its continuing international expansion strategy it will add for this summer 450,000 more seats than summer 2010 to and from its Toronto hub, including new daily service to four major international destinations. The expansion is part of a system-wide capacity increase for summer 2011 that will result in additional international, transborder and domestic flying.

"Air Canada is expanding its international, transborder and domestic services this summer, with much of that growth occurring in our Toronto hub. Following the success of new route additions last year we are enhancing our schedule and adding 450,000 more seats than last summer, primarily by making flights to Copenhagen, Madrid, Dublin and Santiago daily, doubling the number of flights to Barcelona to six a week, and adding a fourth weekly frequency to Athens," said Ben Smith, Executive Vice President and Chief Commercial Officer at Air Canada. "This growth comes on top of 680,000 seats we added to and from Toronto in 2010. As the world's most multi-cultural city, Toronto by itself generates and attracts a great deal of international traffic. With Lester B. Pearson International Airport's ideal geographic location, easy in-transit customs and connection processes for international travelers, and the fact Air Canada's operations are consolidated in a single terminal featuring comfortable Maple Leaf Lounges, we are poised to make Toronto a leading global aviation hub."

Air Canada received top honours in Business Traveler magazine's Best in Business Travel 2010 annual reader survey, winning five awards: Best Flight Attendants in North America, Best In-flight Services in North America, Best North America Airline for Business Class Service, Best North American Airline for International Travel, and Best Airline Web Site. Readers of Global Travel magazine voted Air Canada Best Airline in North America, for the sixth consecutive year in their 2010 reader survey. Air Canada was named Best Airline North America in a worldwide survey of more than 17 million air travelers conducted by independent research firm Skytrax for its 2010 World Airline Awards. Air Canada was named Canada's Preferred Airline by frequent business travellers in the 2010 Ipsos Reid Business Traveller Survey.

Air Canada is Canada's largest domestic and international full-service airline providing scheduled and charter air transportation for passengers and cargo from 60 communities large and small across Canada to more than 175 destinations on five continents. Canada's flag carrier is the 15th largest commercial airline in the world and serves 31 million customers annually. Air Canada is a founding member of Star Alliance, the world's most comprehensive air transportation network serving 1,172 airports in 181 countries. Air Canada customers can collect Aeroplan miles for future rewards through Canada's leading loyalty program, and Top Tier members enjoy reciprocal frequent flyer benefits including lounge and priority services.
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Old February 18th, 2011, 09:41 PM   #1869
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Anyways, TS and ATH, how many weekly rotations in the summer? 5?

I am also wondering if the A310 has legs to do YYZ-BEG?
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Old February 19th, 2011, 12:59 AM   #1870
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YYZplanner View Post
What r u talking about? Saudi Arabian Airlines is an amazing airline if you fly internationally with them. I flew it from LHR- JED and their service was amazing! It was a lot better than air canada's service from YYZ- LHR. I dont think AC stands a chance against airlines in the middle east like Emirates, Etihad, Saudi Arabian, Qatar, and much more bro.
I dont know which year you flew Saudia but they are the only thing amazing about them is that they're still considered a 3 star airline. Outside the European and american flights, it is one chaotic mess from check-in all the way to losing your bags at the destination, all the joys a top tier airline is known for: rude and unaccommodating check-in staff, having to fight with locals for the seats you were assigned to, filthy bathrooms, ancient aircraft, mediocre inflight entertainment, 3 hour immigration wait times in JED you name it they have it. not that the euro/american routes are that much better but to each his own. heaven forbid you happen to fly during a religious occasion or a holiday (which seems to be occuring with regular frequency in that country... does anyone ever work?) take all the problems to the 3rd exponent. this coming from somebody who used to fly with them frequently up until recently.
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Old February 19th, 2011, 08:12 AM   #1871
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Food for thought for the GTAA :

Travellers flocking to U.S. airports
18 February 2011
The Toronto Star

Price is only one of the factors for my choice to fly from Buffalo over 50 per cent of the time I travel. My last flight arrived at Pearson's Terminal One at 6:30 a.m. on Dec. 31, 2010. After flying all night with Air Canada from Santiago, Chile, we landed at Pearson and walked what seemed like kilometres from the gate to immigration. We arrived in a hall and zigzagged through the queue for about 45 minutes.

At the end of the line was a single agent directing passengers into one of 10 secondary lines of about 10 people each. Unlike modern airports, which we encountered in developing countries around South America, there was no electronic system to indicate the next free agent. Instead, you hoped that the secondary line you were sent to had nobody in it who would take a long time to process. One wonders what the GTAA does with the highest fees in the world.

After customs, we proceeded to the baggage claim area thinking that with the long line at customs our bags would be sitting there. Silly thought! An hour and a half after our plane arrived at the gate our bags came up the ramp. We would have been around Hamilton by then had we landed in Buffalo. By the way, there is no cellphone service in either hall so you can't call the people waiting for you.

Our next trip is scheduled from Buffalo. A night at the hotel with breakfast and two weeks parking plus shuttle is about $130. Tax included. We will enjoy a day of shopping in Buffalo and wake up around 90 minutes before our departure.

My personal repertoire of Air Canada/Pearson horror stories would fill a section of your paper. In any case, one must provide service in order to retain customers and that is not happening now.

Gerald Berish, Richmond Hill
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Old February 19th, 2011, 05:18 PM   #1872
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Are there any recent studies about this topic? I'm trying to quantify how big is this problem in reality.

Travellers flocking to U.S. airports; Lost revenue prompts hotel industry to push Ottawa for tax cuts
The Canadian Press
17 February 2011

MONTREAL -- Canada's hotel industry issued a new call Wednesday for government to reduce taxes and airport fees to stem the growing exodus of travellers who begin their vacations by first going to the United States to avoid higher domestic surcharges.

Nearly one-third of Canadian leisure travellers may first drive to the U.S. before flying to another U.S. destination or internationally, says a new Hotel Association of Canada survey.

Last year, 21 per cent of Canadians hopped the border, up from 18 per cent in 2009, according to an association survey.

Thirty-two per cent of the 1,600 Canadians surveyed said they would also consider making the trek in 2011, in part because of the strong loonie.

"When you are looking at roughly five million Canadians going down there, that's lost revenue for everything from the airlines to the airports to hotels to restaurants and that flow needs to be stopped and be reversed," says association president Tony Pollard.

The number of people who are driving to U.S. cities such as Plattsburgh, N.Y.; Burlington, Vt.; Buffalo, N.Y.; Bangor, Me.; Fargo, N.D.; and Seattle, Wash., equals the annual traffic out of the airports in Ottawa or Halifax.

Pollard said the government can increase its revenues if lower airport fees, fuel excise taxes and airline surcharges can convince millions of Canadians to fly from their home cities.

The travel industry has long pleaded without much success for the government to reduce taxes and fees.

"Good policy is based on good research and this is good research, so I'm hopeful that the government of Canada will take note of it," Pollard said in an interview.

The savings from driving an hour or so to fly out of a U.S. airport can be substantial.

Montrealers departing in two weeks for a week-long trip to Orlando, Fla., for example, would pay twice as much to fly from Pierre Trudeau International Airport than from Burlington, Vt.

A mid-week round-trip Air Canada flight from Montreal to Orlando costs $629, including $137 in fees, taxes and surcharges. Star Alliance partner United Airways offers a trip from Burlington to Orlando for $308 (U.S.), including $42.80 in taxes and fees.

Governments extracted $6.9 billion out of Canadian airports over the last decade. Starting to reduce that number could encourage U.S. low-cost carriers like JetBlue, Vision and Spirit to offer service from Canada, Pollard added.

"What we need to do is change this mind set of constantly taking money from Canadian airports and Canadian travellers."

A recent study commissioned by the National Airlines Council of Canada, which represents airlines like Air Canada, WestJet, Air Transat and Jazz, found that Ontario could create jobs, attract thousands more tourists and stimulate its economy by eliminating taxes on aviation fuel for transborder and international flights.

Removal of the fuel tax on international flights could also improve Pearson Airport's chances of becoming among North America's leading international gateway airports, said a report prepared by Fred Lazar, a professor at the Schulich School of Business at York University.

Pollard said the growing use of the Internet is making it easier for travellers to shop and compare fares.

Business travellers use the web to gather information before they book travel.
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Old February 20th, 2011, 11:37 PM   #1873
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hkskyline View Post
Food for thought for the GTAA :

Travellers flocking to U.S. airports
18 February 2011
The Toronto Star

Price is only one of the factors for my choice to fly from Buffalo over 50 per cent of the time I travel. My last flight arrived at Pearson's Terminal One at 6:30 a.m. on Dec. 31, 2010. After flying all night with Air Canada from Santiago, Chile, we landed at Pearson and walked what seemed like kilometres from the gate to immigration. We arrived in a hall and zigzagged through the queue for about 45 minutes.

At the end of the line was a single agent directing passengers into one of 10 secondary lines of about 10 people each. Unlike modern airports, which we encountered in developing countries around South America, there was no electronic system to indicate the next free agent. Instead, you hoped that the secondary line you were sent to had nobody in it who would take a long time to process. One wonders what the GTAA does with the highest fees in the world.

After customs, we proceeded to the baggage claim area thinking that with the long line at customs our bags would be sitting there. Silly thought! An hour and a half after our plane arrived at the gate our bags came up the ramp. We would have been around Hamilton by then had we landed in Buffalo. By the way, there is no cellphone service in either hall so you can't call the people waiting for you.

Our next trip is scheduled from Buffalo. A night at the hotel with breakfast and two weeks parking plus shuttle is about $130. Tax included. We will enjoy a day of shopping in Buffalo and wake up around 90 minutes before our departure.

My personal repertoire of Air Canada/Pearson horror stories would fill a section of your paper. In any case, one must provide service in order to retain customers and that is not happening now.

Gerald Berish, Richmond Hill
I don't know who Gerald is but bashing AC is national pastime in this country.
Usually by people who fly once or twice a year on some heavily discounted fare yet have delusions that they're travelling up in the front of the cabin.

I have taken over 150 flights with AC yet not once, repeat not once have they lost my luggage. I have arrived on packed B777-300s and A340-500s at YYZ during the heavy international rush yet never had to wait 1.5 hours for bags. So I call bullshit on Gerald.

Without a doubt the high fees the border airports are cashing in... And both AC and GTAA have room for improvement but the current situation is not as bad as this article suggests.

Oh and I think Gerald needs to get a new cellphone.
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Old February 20th, 2011, 11:43 PM   #1874
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Originally Posted by YYZplanner View Post
What r u talking about? Saudi Arabian Airlines is an amazing airline if you fly internationally with them. I flew it from LHR- JED and their service was amazing! It was a lot better than air canada's service from YYZ- LHR. I dont think AC stands a chance against airlines in the middle east like Emirates, Etihad, Saudi Arabian, Qatar, and much more bro.
Saudi Arabian has better service than Air Canada?! LMFAO
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Old February 20th, 2011, 11:52 PM   #1875
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Originally Posted by yyzhyd View Post
I don't know who Gerald is but bashing AC is national pastime in this country.
Usually by people who fly once or twice a year on some heavily discounted fare yet have delusions that they're travelling up in the front of the cabin.

I have taken over 150 flights with AC yet not once, repeat not once have they lost my luggage. I have arrived on packed B777-300s and A340-500s at YYZ during the heavy international rush yet never had to wait 1.5 hours for bags. So I call bullshit on Gerald.

Without a doubt the high fees the border airports are cashing in... And both AC and GTAA have room for improvement but the current situation is not as bad as this article suggests.

Oh and I think Gerald needs to get a new cellphone.
I can also say that I have taken over 35 return flights last year on AC and not once did they ever loose my luggage. I can also add that not every flight I took last year was on AC. I do have a basis for comparisson.

Like you said, the bashing of AC is incredible. People want service for nothing and then complain about it after. Since I am now living in Montreal, I will be doing a lot of flights to NYC and Paris for work. So my next flight is to Paris on AF.
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Old February 23rd, 2011, 04:19 AM   #1876
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Saudi Arabian has better service than Air Canada?! LMFAO
Well... that's my opinion having flown both carriers regionally and internationally. I could be wrong though. Probably have to see again for myself when I fly them both again hopefully.

Last edited by YYZplanner; February 23rd, 2011 at 04:32 AM.
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Old February 23rd, 2011, 04:33 AM   #1877
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I can also say that I have taken over 35 return flights last year on AC and not once did they ever loose my luggage. I can also add that not every flight I took last year was on AC. I do have a basis for comparisson.

Like you said, the bashing of AC is incredible. People want service for nothing and then complain about it after. Since I am now living in Montreal, I will be doing a lot of flights to NYC and Paris for work. So my next flight is to Paris on AF.
I took a connecting flight on AC to NY via montreal, and the airline lost all my luggage. Had to stay overnight in montreal instead of a couple of hours.
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Old February 23rd, 2011, 04:02 PM   #1878
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Well... that's my opinion having flown both carriers regionally and internationally. I could be wrong though. Probably have to see again for myself when I fly them both again hopefully.
We're all entitled to our opinions of course, that's what makes a discussion board so interesting.
However, you would be the first person I have ever seen say SV is better than AC, and put them in the same league as EK, EY, QR.
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Old February 23rd, 2011, 11:19 PM   #1879
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Oh and I think Gerald needs to get a new cellphone.
To be fair it's not so much his cellphone as it is the CBSA who has jammers in the Customs Hall. By extension they must also effect the baggage hall. Thank god for this too. Last thing I want to do while waiting in line for customs is listening to 50 different people conversing on their phone. It's amazing how desperate some people are to use their cell phones.
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Old February 24th, 2011, 10:39 PM   #1880
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Article: http://www.newswire.ca/en/releases/a.../24/c5823.html

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TORONTO PEARSON WELCOMES ALT HOTEL TO THE AIRPORT

TORONTO, Feb. 24 /CNW/ - The GTAA is excited to announce that Groupe Germain Hospitality will be building and operating ALT Hotel located at Toronto Pearson International Airport.

Construction will begin shortly on this 'no frills-chic' hotel inspired by trends in Europe and Asia. The 149 room hotel will be located adjacent to Terminals 1 and 3, at the end of the LINK train line. This prime location will allow guests easy access to accommodations at the airport.

The ALT Hotel Toronto Pearson will offer more than 10,000 square feet of meeting space in a modern setting. In addition, the hotel will include a gym and workout area and the property's lobby will feature a café and reading areas. The hotel will have 13 floors housing comfortable rooms with a clever and original design. The interior will reflect the design that characterizes ALT Hotels' signature style of chic interiors without any superfluous details.

"We are very excited to be working with Groupe Germain Hospitality," said Lloyd McCoomb, President and CEO for the GTAA. "The ALT Hotel concept is an ideal fit for our business and leisure guests who are looking for simple, yet stylish accommodations close to the airport at an affordable price."

"An analysis of the Canadian market has shown that there is a very clear need for this type of hotel, especially for business customers and transit passengers," said Christiane Germain, Co-president and CEO of Groupe Germain Hospitality.

The ALT Hotel concept is flexible and allows for rapid development because of its construction method, which uses the concept of the pre-fabricated room.

The new ALT Hotel Toronto Pearson is scheduled to open in the spring of 2012.

About Groupe Germain Hospitality

A family-owned Quebec company, Groupe Germain owns and operates five Le Germain Boutique-hotels - in Quebec City, Montreal, Toronto and Calgary. In 2010, Hôtel Le Germain Calgary and Hôtel Le Germain Maple Leaf Square opened and strengthened the brand's offer and national reach. Groupe Germain Hospitality also owns and operates two "no-frills-chic" ALT Hotels: in Montreal's Quartier DIX30 and Quebec City. A third ALT Hotel - the brand's first property outside of Quebec - is scheduled to open in the Spring of 2012. Groupe Germain Hospitality is renowned for the impeccable warmth and style it brings to its properties.

About GTAA

The GTAA is the operator of Toronto Pearson International Airport, the busiest airport in Canada and one of the largest airports in North America in terms of passenger and air cargo traffic. In 2010, Toronto Pearson handled an estimated 31.9 million passengers. The focus of the GTAA continues to be on competitiveness, growing the airport's status as an international gateway, meeting the needs of our travellers and ensuring the long-term success of the organization, our airline customers and the regional economy.
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