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Old September 1st, 2009, 07:31 PM   #81
Xoser_barcelona
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Nice to see that Spain has Joined the likes of France and Germany and is starting to export its HST outside of Europe. Are there any plans to buld these CAF trains locally or is there only a deal with the Koreans?
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Old September 2nd, 2009, 05:53 PM   #82
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Looks cool, are tickets expensive ?
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Old September 2nd, 2009, 06:17 PM   #83
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Originally Posted by Xoser_barcelona View Post
Nice to see that Spain has Joined the likes of France and Germany and is starting to export its HST outside of Europe. Are there any plans to buld these CAF trains locally or is there only a deal with the Koreans?
No Turkey will built Korean KTX II under licence.CAF Trains are too slow.The High Speed Lines are built for over 350 km/h.KTX II reaches 350 km/h



Joint venture EUROTEM factory in Adapazari ( joint enterprise between T▄VASAŞ of Turkey and ROTEM of South Korea )


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Old September 2nd, 2009, 06:25 PM   #84
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Looks cool, are tickets expensive ?
Well the line between Ankara and Eskisehir costs 30 TL.This makes 15 €.Istanbul-Ankara will cost 50 TL = 25 €.
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Old September 2nd, 2009, 06:52 PM   #85
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Trains are indeed too slow if considering the time won with a faster train over a distance such as ANK-IST. The KTX does look nice indeed, even though they should try and shake the TGV legacy from the design a bit more. So what will happen to these slower CAF trains? Will they be used as shuttles for shorter distances or will they be used in a Kodama-type of way (all-stop slow HST)?
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Old September 2nd, 2009, 07:16 PM   #86
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No Turkey will built Korean KTX II under licence.CAF Trains are too slow.The High Speed Lines are built for over 350 km/h.KTX II reaches 350 km/h
The maximum design speed of KTX-II is 330 km/h and operational speed is 300 km/h.
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Old September 2nd, 2009, 07:21 PM   #87
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The maximum design speed of KTX-II is 330 km/h and operational speed is 300 km/h.
still faster than CAF trains
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Old November 15th, 2009, 11:14 AM   #88
Baron Hirsch
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Only 8 months after its inauguration, Turkey's Ankara-Eskisehir high-speed service has derailed for the first time. In the accident two days ago, no-one was physically hurt, but some passengers suffered from nervous problems.
According to the press release by TCDD, the accident cause was not technical but the engineer's fault. Supposedly he had turned off the auto-control and was steering the train manually, but failed to decelerate enough before reaching the turnout (?) at Hasanbey just before Eskisehir, where the train leaves the high-speed track and switches onto the conventional railroute. At this point, the train should operate at 30 km/h, but was apparently still going at more than 100.
While this for the moment averts criticism from TCDD's high-speed infrastructure, it of course raises questions as to how good their driving training for the high-speed trains really was.
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Old November 15th, 2009, 12:01 PM   #89
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well its amazing that noone was hurt, so thats good i guess
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Old November 15th, 2009, 09:10 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by Baron Hirsch View Post
At this point, the train should operate at 30 km/h, but was apparently still going at more than 100.
While this for the moment averts criticism from TCDD's high-speed infrastructure, it of course raises questions as to how good their driving training for the high-speed trains really was.
Yeah... well, it also raises some questions about the TCDD's infrastructure - not just their high-speed infrastructure. The HS trains into Paris or Tokyo also use the old "legacy lines" but they normally use them at speeds well above 100 km/h. I have fond memories of sitting in the Thalys and Eurostars into Gare du Nord, overtaking regional trains with so great speed difference that it looked like they were standing still. And yet...

...our Turkish friends say it was all the driver's fault for driving faster than 30 km/h? That's a good one!
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Old November 16th, 2009, 12:25 AM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hans280 View Post
Yeah... well, it also raises some questions about the TCDD's infrastructure - not just their high-speed infrastructure. The HS trains into Paris or Tokyo also use the old "legacy lines" but they normally use them at speeds well above 100 km/h. I have fond memories of sitting in the Thalys and Eurostars into Gare du Nord, overtaking regional trains with so great speed difference that it looked like they were standing still. And yet...

...our Turkish friends say it was all the driver's fault for driving faster than 30 km/h? That's a good one!
Well I don't see what's so funny. The high speed line from Ankara ends at
Eskicehir now, and trains have to switch back to the old infrastructure, but
that's temporary and will last only until the line is built on its entire length
to Istanbul. In those conditions TCDD did probably not bother to put in place
a very expensive high-speed switch that would be of no use in a mere few
years. It's a perfectly legitimate decision, wise use of public money.
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Old November 16th, 2009, 05:45 PM   #92
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My point was simply that it's an abherration to have legacy train lines that can accomodate only 30 km/h. In most of the countries embracing HS technologies in the last couple of decades 300 km/h implied a doubling of the speed that ordinary express trains were running at. In Eskicehir, apparently, the new HS line will increase the operations speed by a factor 10!
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Old November 17th, 2009, 10:36 AM   #93
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Quote:
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My point was simply that it's an abherration to have legacy train lines that can accomodate only 30 km/h. In most of the countries embracing HS technologies in the last couple of decades 300 km/h implied a doubling of the speed that ordinary express trains were running at. In Eskicehir, apparently, the new HS line will increase the operations speed by a factor 10!
You have to cut the Turkish State Railways some slack. After abondoning railway as an effective mode of transportation more than 50 yars ago under American influence, they are now trying to change this. Their approach, jumping from 19th century to 21st century standard without bothering to first bring the existing track up to the 20th century is criticized by a lot of us in the Turkish forum, but once they start to change things, there are obviously going to be compromises. The track concerned will be replaced once the train station of Eskisehir is moved underground in the course of HSR construction. Besides: the train was slowing down to enter a station. Nowhere, not even in Paris Montparnasse do trains race into a station at 100 k+ and stop on a dime.
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Old November 17th, 2009, 12:20 PM   #94
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Sure, sure, sure... I'm slowly coming to terms with a different development concept from the one I've been used to. I am used to think of HSLs as the "icing on the cake" of a railway network that is already modern and reasonably fast. In Turkey, according to what you say, it is more like a jump to a new paradigm?

But, in all fairness, it has probably been a bit the same in earlier days in Spain. I certainly remember taking, in my early youth, "Rapido" trains that were less rapid than the London underground. In Spain, however, the paradoxes of a lamentable legacy architecture combined with an ultra-modern HS concept has been felt less acutely because of the change in gauge width: an AVE train cannot just run headlong onto the old tracks.

As for 100 km/h in France, you are certainly correct that this speed cannot be employed for the last couple of kilometers before halt. However, I was on the ICE3 from Frankfurt to Paris last Sunday and I can assure you that it was still keeping a respectable 150 km/h through the suburbs - in spite of track crossings and legacy rail with wodden beams.
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Old November 17th, 2009, 01:13 PM   #95
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Spain is definitely the better comparison. Or Greece ten years ago, or Eastern Germany after reunification, although any of them would beat the technical standards of the average Turkish railtrack by lengths. The problem is the PR: politicians here like making grand standing declarations of high-speed rail links to China and to Mecca that lead people to believe that Turkey is living in the high-tech age. When you actually take a train, you remember that there is nothing to it. Having said that, Turkish trains are still among the cheapest in Europe (including the restaurant cars), offer much space per passenger and treats you to great scenery.
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Old November 18th, 2009, 11:07 PM   #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hans280 View Post
My point was simply that it's an abherration to have legacy train lines that can accomodate only 30 km/h.
Not a line... Just a temporary switch to link the new HSL with the legacy line at the entrance at Eskicehir station, and that will be lifted out when the HSL
is fully operational.
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Old December 5th, 2009, 02:33 PM   #97
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Btw Ankara-Konya highspeed line:











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Old December 6th, 2009, 09:13 AM   #98
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Not a line... Just a temporary switch to link the new HSL with the legacy line at the entrance at Eskicehir station, and that will be lifted out when the HSL
is fully operational.
I hope they'll remember to upgrade the 30 km/h-piece as well, then. There's bound to be future cases of incidents (accidents, power failure...) blocking the new line between Eskicehir and Istanbul. In that case the traffic controllers will instruct the train to take the legacy rail for a certain distance. If the cross-over remains 30 km/h, in the middle of a HS line and a not-too-slow legacy line than I safely (and sadly...) predict more accidents in the future.
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Old December 6th, 2009, 11:33 AM   #99
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Hans, how many times do we have to explain it, the present day station of Eskisehir will be moved underground in the course of the construction. The switch onto old rails is just until the new line/tunnel will be built, afterwards the old track will only be used freight and conventional trains.
Messi, I like your pics. While track laying looks quite advanced on this stretch, for some reason nothing has happened inside the city limits of Konya itself. I do not know what they are waiting for, if they want to get this train running in 2010.
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Old December 6th, 2009, 01:38 PM   #100
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Quote:
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Hans, how many times do we have to explain it, the present day station of Eskisehir will be moved underground in the course of the construction. The switch onto old rails is just until the new line/tunnel will be built, afterwards the old track will only be used freight and conventional trains.
Was that a royal "we", Baron?

I did, in fact, understand first time you told me that the Eskesehir solution is an interim to be replaced when the rest of the line opens. My point was about something else: some form of switch to the old rails will no doubt (?) be maintained also after the tunnel has been built. The hopes I humbly expressed was that the railway company will remember to upgrade that switch as well. Because, otherwise we know what will happen: a new generation of train drivers will forget that the switch is enabled for 30 km/h only, one day the new line will be blocked, and the trains redirected to take the old tracks after Esksehir, and then....
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