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Old February 2nd, 2007, 06:14 AM   #421
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Originally Posted by brewcityfan View Post
Which is also ridiculous! Chicago and I believe Detroit get free access to Great Lakes water....and Milwaukee is right up there but their suburbs get denied! That subject, though, should probably have a seperate thread!

You know us Wisconsinites have too many topics for debate and so many subjects to talk about its insane at times!!
While I'm no expert on the subject, I tend to agree with the multi-city, state, country coalition that strives to keep the Great Lakes water basin under tight control. After all, it IS a limited resource and serves a much better purpose than to provide water to a water park in New Berlin. There's a reason why the coalition was formed in the first place... to prevent things like this from happening. One slip-up opens the doors for all kinds of other opportunistic entrepreneurs and cities here and elsewhere. Come to think of it, I don't think it's up to the common council to allow New Berlin access to the water anyway.
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Old February 2nd, 2007, 06:27 AM   #422
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While I'm no expert on the subject, I tend to agree with the multi-city, state, country coalition that strives to keep the Great Lakes water basin under tight control. After all, it IS a limited resource and serves a much better purpose than to provide water to a water park in New Berlin. There's a reason why the coalition was formed in the first place... to prevent things like this from happening. One slip-up opens the doors for all kinds of other opportunistic entrepreneurs and cities here and elsewhere. Come to think of it, I don't think it's up to the common council to allow New Berlin access to the water anyway.
I believe the basin runs through the middle of Eastern Waukesha County communities, like New Berlin. So yes, Milwaukee sells New Berlin water and has pipes for only that area that's part of the basin.

Here's a map of the basin in SE Wisconsin:


If the rest of New Berlin and the rest of radiated-water laden Waukesha County want water, they have to appeal to the Council of Great Lakes Governors, who seem to be fine with it except for the Governor of Michigan, who has said she will veto any measure.

Chicagoland is the only exception to the charter, since all of Chicago and all of its suburbs no matter how big get access to Great Lakes water.

And well, if the lake water is so limited then we might as well cut the water lines to the Hilton waterpark downtown, and if they reuse the water then I don't see why the New Berlin waterpark couldn't do the same thing.

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Old February 2nd, 2007, 06:51 AM   #423
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If the rest of New Berlin and the rest of radiated-water laden Waukesha County want water, they have to appeal to the Council of Great Lakes Governors, who seem to be fine with it except for the Governor of Michigan, who has said she will veto any measure.
Existing Great Lakes water diversions--there are only like 3 or 4--were grandfathered into the recently agreed-upon diversion restrictions, meaning they are exempt from such restrictions.

New diversions, however, would be subject to the diversion restrictions....and they are to be decided on a case by case basis.

There are other Great Lakes governments that have found New Berlin's diversion request to be unsatisfactory--New York, Illinois, Michigan, and Ontario.
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Old February 2nd, 2007, 06:58 AM   #424
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For any bucks fans out there ?????????? Michael Redd Left off of the all star team even though he's averaging 27 pts a game and will be healthy by the time the game is played!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NBA
NBA? I think that stands for No Big Attraction. Sorry, I love some of the athleticism and talent found in the NBA, but it has little to do with the sport of basketball. The rules for this particular game offer only a fleeting glimpse of what Naismith had in mind when he invented the game. How many steps do you get in the NBA these days? Six or seven?! My goodness. I was watching a Bucks game recently, and saw a player from the opposing team take four steps after he got the ball - without dribbling! Of course, no call was made. Don't even get me started about the "star treatment" factor. Bottom line, I'm not a big fan. But it is ridiculous that Redd was left off the team. If he played for a larger market he'd be on.
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Old February 2nd, 2007, 12:55 PM   #425
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And well, if the lake water is so limited then we might as well cut the water lines to the Hilton waterpark downtown, and if they reuse the water then I don't see why the New Berlin waterpark couldn't do the same thing.
The new hotel is outside the basin, the Hilton is inside the basin.. no comparison. This is truly about a county bitching about not having enough water yet they propose building a waterpark.. good example of how they haven't got a clue about water issues. They need to step into their reality and start planning for it
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Old February 2nd, 2007, 04:05 PM   #426
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Precisely. I think in the future, as sprawl continues, the Great Lakes will become sought after more and more. The cities and counties inside the Great Lakes basin need to protect what's theirs now...otherwise we'll have too many chefs in the kitchen and the next thing we know,we will allllllllllll be looking for an alternate water source.
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Old February 2nd, 2007, 05:28 PM   #427
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From today's Small Business Times:

Red Prairie Could Anchor Park East Tower

By Andrew Weiland , of SBT

Published February 2, 2007

A prime site in the Park East freeway corridor in downtown Milwaukee is being pitched as a potential site for RedPrairie Corp.’s new corporate headquarters, according to commercial real estate sources. RedPrairie is based in the Town of Brookfield, but company leader John Jazwiec has said the firm may relocate its headquarters. Although Milwaukee officials have courted him to move his company downtown, Jazwiec has been critical about Wisconsin’s business climate and has said the company may move out of state.
Real estate sources told SBT that RedPrairie has been approached to move its headquarters to a Park East corridor site at the northwest corner of North Water Street and East Knapp Street that would be developed by Brookfield-based MLG Commercial Inc., which acknowledged that it is planning a much larger development for the site than the company had indicated it was working on a year ago.

Last year, MLG submitted the only proposal for a 16,340-square-foot, triangular-shaped lot at the corner that is owned by Milwaukee County. The company submitted a proposal to the county indicating that it planned to build a four-story, 44,000-square-foot building on the site with retail space on the first floor and office space on the upper floors.

MLG also said it planned to develop a parcel of land located between the county property and the Milwaukee River, and owned by the Willard Isaacs family, with a 90-unit condo building that would also include some retail space.

However, MLG now is planning a much larger development for the site with a prominent high-rise building that would include office space, residences and retail or restaurant space said MLG principal Bruce Westling.

“We feel the site deserves a development of more critical mass,” Westling said.

The property is ideally located for a major development, Westling said. Water Street is one of downtown Milwaukee’s busiest streets and Knapp Street leads directly to Interstate 43. The property also has a large amount of frontage on the Milwaukee River and sits just across the river from where Manpower Inc. is building its new corporate headquarters.

“The site can accommodate a very significant mixed-use development,” Westling said.

MLG is working with Eppstein Uhen Architects on the project, he said.

“They’re trying to get RedPrairie,” said one real estate source, who asked not to be identified for this report. “I saw a rendering of the building with RedPrairie’s name on it.”

J.J. Berrall, director of marketing for RedPrairie, declined to comment about the downtown site, but when asked, she did not deny that RedPrairie is negotiating over the site.

RedPrairie is evaluating its future plans for its corporate headquarters location, Berrall said.

RedPrairie is a software company owned by Franciscan Partners, a Menlo Park, Calif.-based technology-focused private equity funds group. Jazwiec said he plans to take RedPrairie from a $200 million company today to a $500 million company in the next 18 months and a $1 billion company within the next three years, after which he plans to transform the firm into a publicly held company.

MLG is working with Eppstein Uhen Architects on the project, Westling said. Eppstein Uhen recently posted images of the project on its Web page showing what appears to be a building 20 to 25 stories tall. After being contacted about the rendering by SBT, Eppstein Uhen removed the images from its Web site.

“(The rendering) is just an opportunity to show what can be done with the site,” Westling said.

A dense development with a large office component would boost the daytime population of the area, which would benefit hotels, restaurants and stores that are expected to be developed in the Park East corridor, Westling said.

The city’s Park East Redevelopment Plan indicates that a landmark building could be built on the 2.5-acre MLG site up to 20 stories tall. MLG is trying to convince city officials to support a prominent building for the property, which could be even taller than 20 stories high, Westling said.

“(City officials) should want this site to be developed as densely and as intensely as it can be,” he said. The development is still in the conceptual stage. “It’s all over the place,” Westling said. “It’s very fluid.”

MLG needs to obtain an anchor office tenant to build a major, mixed-use development at the site, Westling said.

However, that will not be easy as downtown Milwaukee’s office market is struggling. According to a recent report from Boston-based Colliers International, the downtown office vacancy rate increased from 11.8 percent in the second quarter to 18.4 percent in the third quarter. Several office buildings have been proposed downtown in recent years but have not been built because they have not yet secured an anchor tenant.

A handful of large office tenants are considering moving to other buildings. Robert W. Baird & Co., a financial services firm located in the U.S. Bank Center at 777 E. Wisconsin Ave., and Cramer-Krasselt, an advertising agency located at 733 N. Van Buren St., are thinking about moving to different downtown Milwaukee locations. Either could be an anchor tenant that would trigger construction of a new building.
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Old February 2nd, 2007, 05:34 PM   #428
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And we all knew that the rendering had to have a tenant behind it.
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Old February 2nd, 2007, 06:43 PM   #429
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Until the region can force Chicago to stop pouring billions of gallons of water down the Chicago Shit Canal, I can't get worried about selling drinking water to Waukesha.

This is from the Menominee Valley Partners site:

Canal Street Commerce Center Groundbreaking
February 5, 2007 - 1:00pm

Menomonee Valley Partners invites you to join Governor Jim Doyle and Mayor Tom Barrett to break ground on the Canal Street Commerce Center, future home of Proven Direct.


MONDAY, FEBRUARY 5, 2007

1:00 pm

1301 W. Canal Street

(Hot coffee and pastries from the new Mekato's Colombian Bakery to be served in the warmth of a heated tent.)


RSVP to [email protected]


Developer Ziegler/Bence and the non-profit Menomonee Valley Partners, Inc. invite the greater Milwaukee community to celebrate another

milestone in the redevelopment of the Menomonee Valley. The Canal Street Commerce Center will be developed at the site of the former Milwaukee Stockyards, which was identified as a priority redevelopment site in the 1998 Valley Plan. The sustainably-designed building will house the new headquarters of Proven Direct.

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Old February 2nd, 2007, 07:58 PM   #430
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ClarkWGriswald View Post
Precisely. I think in the future, as sprawl continues, the Great Lakes will become sought after more and more. The cities and counties inside the Great Lakes basin need to protect what's theirs now...otherwise we'll have too many chefs in the kitchen and the next thing we know,we will allllllllllll be looking for an alternate water source.
Well then what do we do with all of Milwaukee's western suburbs??? Waukesha County's well water is radiated, and has been ordered to find a new source of water within the next few years. We talk about how certain developments and projects might stunt growth in this city, well having no water in suburbs sure will ruin any metro growth Milwaukee has been getting these past 10+ years.

And that building on Water St. looks like a winner to be built!! I might not be a LPT, but it sure is amazing in its own right.
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Old February 2nd, 2007, 08:22 PM   #431
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Well then what do we do with all of Milwaukee's western suburbs??? Waukesha County's well water is radiated, and has been ordered to find a new source of water within the next few years. We talk about how certain developments and projects might stunt growth in this city, well having no water in suburbs sure will ruin any metro growth Milwaukee has been getting these past 10+ years.
There is more than enough room within the basin to develop before having to worry about the western suburbs.. people will just have to start moving closer to the lake and filling in much of oak creek and franklin that are still farm fields. (and would still be a shorter drive than coming from the west.. or a great metra ride into downtown ) The western burbs also need to start planning for the fact that they don't have any water, instead of expecting to go around international water treaties. The lack of water has been no secret for quite sometime now yet the communities in the areas affected haven't done anything to encourge water conservation or smart development.

Quote:
And that building on Water St. looks like a winner to be built!! I might not be a LPT, but it sure is amazing in its own right.
agreed.. I am probably more excited about this project than LPT.
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Old February 2nd, 2007, 08:30 PM   #432
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There is more than enough room within the basin to develop before having to worry about the western suburbs.. people will just have to start moving closer to the lake and filling in much of oak creek and franklin that are still farm fields. (and would still be a shorter drive than coming from the west.. or a great metra ride into downtown ) The western burbs also need to start planning for the fact that they don't have any water, instead of expecting to go around international water treaties. The lack of water has been no secret for quite sometime now yet the communities in the areas affected haven't done anything to encourge water conservation or smart development.
If that happens, our city's metro area from above will look soooo weird, it'll end on an imaginary line, so-to-speak.

I just don't understand why the other metro areas in the Great Lakes have no problem with this, at least I don't think any others do..... but the Milwaukee metro area has to be the lucky one that has to redo its entire water system because it simply has grown too big.....

What's even more disgusting is that in yesterday's Chicago Tribune they were talking about a brand new spanking WATERPARK....in Hoffman Estates! And to top it off Chicagoland has no problem grabbing that tasty Lake Michigan water.....well maybe tasty wasn't the right word to describe it, but you get the point! http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/l...,3512403.story
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Old February 2nd, 2007, 09:17 PM   #433
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I just don't understand why the other metro areas in the Great Lakes have no problem with this, at least I don't think any others do..... but the Milwaukee metro area has to be the lucky one that has to redo its entire water system because it simply has grown too big.....
Again, the Great Lakes water diversions that were in existence before the new recently-agreed upon regulations are exempt from those regulations. There are only 4 of them that draw water out of the Great Lakes Basin:

Chicago diversion - which has been around for over a century (also, not all of Chicagoland on the "far side" of the subcontinental divide gets its water from this diversion, their are communities in Chicago's suburbia that draw their water from the Mississippi River Basin)
Pleasant Prairie, Wisconsin diversion - been around since the 1990s, must comply with returning treated water back to the GL basin by 2010
Akron, Ohio diversion - from the late-1990s, draws water out of the GL basin, already treats and returns water back into the GL basin
Forestport, New York diversion - built in 1825 as part of Erie Canal project

It should also be noted that the amount of water these diversions can take out of the Great Lakes basin has limits, they can't just take as much as they want all the time.

Creating new diversions has also been an issue in other communities within and bordering the GL basin--not just in the Milwaukee area.


The newest rules on diversions allow communities that straddle the subcontinental divide (such as New Berlin) to be eligible to apply for a diversion request. Note: eligible to apply for the diversion--that does not mean they'd automatically receive approval for a diversion. Those communities seeking diversions must address other water use issues such as conservation, water treatment, and the ability to return the water to the Great Lakes basin.

Should New Berlin do its homework and be willing to address those issues, the more likely its diversion request will be approved. Other communities further west, completely within the Mississippi River basin, however, should find some other means of a water source, or improving the sources they already have.
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Old February 2nd, 2007, 10:59 PM   #434
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New Land revises Downer plan to include hotel
Developer revamps $60 million project to overcome objections

Developers Boris Gokhman and Joel Lee have a new plan to revitalize Downer Avenue, one they hope will overcome fierce opposition from neighbors and win city officials' approval.

New Land Enterprises' $60 million plan to redevelop a portion of Downer Avenue on Milwaukee's east side has been altered to include a 75-room boutique hotel in a previously proposed 11-story condo tower that riled neighbors because of its height.


Under the new plan, the condo tower's fourth through sixth floors will be dedicated to the hotel, while the seventh through the 11th floors will be condos. The first three floors will be used for meeting rooms and a fitness center.

As part of the plan, the 11-story condo building as it was originally proposed for the corner of North Stowell Avenue and Webster Place will be reduced in size by 50 percent and connected to the existing Schwartz Bookshop building at 2559 N. Downer Ave.

The hotel's main entrance and an 8,400-square-foot banquet facility will be accessed through the former Einstein Bagel Shop at 2567 N. Downer Ave., said Scott Kindness, New Land's architect.

"Integrating the new building with Downer Avenue is ingenious," he said.

This is the third version of New Land's plan to invest in the Downer Avenue neighborhood. A citizens group called the Committee for Balanced Development opposed New Land's plan to construct an 11-story, $50 million building from the beginning.

The majority of New Land's plan to invest $10 million in the 2500 and 2600 blocks of Downer remains the same.

Members of the opposition group contacted by The Business Journal couldn't be reached to comment on New Land's latest plan.

New supporters
New Land presented the latest plan Jan. 27 to the Water Tower Landmark Trust, a group of citizens who live near Downer Avenue. The majority of the group's 160 members opposed New Land's earlier plan to build the 11-story condo tower and redevelop the avenue, said Jeff Grzeca, Water Tower Landmark's president.

there are two more pages to this article ..... http://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee...651600^1412425
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Old February 3rd, 2007, 12:06 AM   #435
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^ The revised design for New Land's Downer/Stowell/Webster project.


^ A previous design for New Land's Downer/Stowell/Webster project (dubbed "The Luminaire" according to early promotional materials).


The revised design is a much better fit for the neighborhood in terms of massing and scale. Obviously the new design takes some cues from the surrounding neighborhood in terms of the scale of buildings right on the street edge, in turn setting the main shaft of the tower portion further back from the street edge--thus making the overall building much less bulky than the earlier design.

Last edited by Markitect; February 3rd, 2007 at 12:24 AM.
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Old February 3rd, 2007, 12:42 AM   #436
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^ The revised design for New Land's Downer/Stowell/Webster project.


^ A previous design for New Land's Downer/Stowell/Webster project (dubbed "The Luminaire" according to early promotional materials).


The revised design is a much better fit for the neighborhood in terms of massing and scale. Obviously the new design takes some cues from the surrounding neighborhood in terms of the scale of buildings right on the street edge, in turn setting the main shaft of the tower portion further back from the street edge--thus making the overall building much less bulky than the earlier design.
That's a very nice looking building! It'll make an impression on that area for sure.
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Old February 3rd, 2007, 05:45 AM   #437
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Forgive me if this has already been mentioned. (I know it's been up for awhile.) I noticed Continuum Architects + Planners had some interesting renderings up on their website including one entitled Water Street Tower. I'm guessing this is the tower at the end of Brady Street that has been suggested in the past....? I don't know if this is still being planned or not, but either way it is interesting.



They have some other cool looking renderings up too, like the Castings Point/Kramer Foundry development.

Their Website
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Old February 3rd, 2007, 06:32 AM   #438
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I noticed Continuum Architects + Planners had some interesting renderings up on their website including one entitled Water Street Tower. I'm guessing this is the tower at the end of Brady Street that has been suggested in the past....? I don't know if this is still being planned or not, but either way it is interesting.
Another proposal from New Land.
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Old February 3rd, 2007, 09:24 AM   #439
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So is the Water Street Tower a serious proposal? What stage of planning is it in? It looks really nice from the drawings and would fit well into the area, in my opinion.
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Old February 3rd, 2007, 07:35 PM   #440
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I don't know about that New Land Water St. proposal. The red on the bottom looks seriously dated. I'm sure it would look fine in that neighborhood, but it certainly would stand out as any sort of achievement in architecture.
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