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Old April 17th, 2007, 04:06 AM   #1041
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ok, Milwaukee, you guys are definitely falling down on the job. some guy from Kansas City posted on the Midwest forum a photo spread on Zona Rosa, a life style center by the same developer as the Bayshore redevelopment.

Equal time?
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Old April 17th, 2007, 05:18 AM   #1042
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New Fortune 500 List out

http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortu...states/WI.html

Wisconsin gains Bemis but loses WPS (Integrys)
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Old April 17th, 2007, 06:09 AM   #1043
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milwaukee is 12th with 6 fortune 500 companies in the city limits



------------------------- rank ----- in billions
1 Johnson Controls ------ 67th -----32,413.0-----Milwaukee
2 Northwestern Mutual ----112th-----20,726.2 -----Milwaukee
3 Manpower --------------131st-----17,786.5 ----- Milwaukee
6 Harley-Davidson--------369th------6,185.6 ------ Milwaukee
7 Rockwell Automation-----416th -----5,561.4 --------Milwaukee
8 Marshall & Ilsley Corp. ----441st ----5,127.9 ------- Milwaukee
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Old April 17th, 2007, 10:23 PM   #1044
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From the JS:
Quote:
TUESDAY, April 17, 2007, 11:28 a.m.
By Tom Daykin

Marquette-area project suffers setback
A $12.4 million housing and retail project planned for the area west of Marquette University faces an uncertain future after failing to secure a key part of its financing.

Grand Avenue Lofts, which calls for 60 apartments, 20 condominiums and around 15,000 square feet of commercial space near W. Wisconsin Ave. and N. 27th St., was seeking $750,000 in affordable housing tax credits. Those federal tax credits are given to development firms, which in turn agree to rent some of their apartments to low- and moderate-income tenants.

In Wisconsin, the credits are allocated annually in a competitive process by the Wisconsin Housing and Economic Development Authority. The agency disclosed today that Grand Avenue Lofts did not qualify for credits - marking the second consecutive year the project failed to win approval.

An executive with Sherman Associates Inc., the Minneapolis-based firm that proposed Grand Avenue Lofts, couldn't be reached for comment on whether the agency's decision means the project is dead.

Denial of the credits for the second consecutive year is "quite a blow to the whole area," said June Moberly, executive director of Avenues West Association, which promotes development in the west side neighborhood.
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Old April 18th, 2007, 12:45 AM   #1045
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Originally Posted by miltown View Post
milwaukee is 12th with 6 fortune 500 companies in the city limits



------------------------- rank ----- in billions
1 Johnson Controls ------ 67th -----32,413.0-----Milwaukee
2 Northwestern Mutual ----112th-----20,726.2 -----Milwaukee
3 Manpower --------------131st-----17,786.5 ----- Milwaukee
6 Harley-Davidson--------369th------6,185.6 ------ Milwaukee
7 Rockwell Automation-----416th -----5,561.4 --------Milwaukee
8 Marshall & Ilsley Corp. ----441st ----5,127.9 ------- Milwaukee
This is a list we can all be happy about and proud of. Johnson Controls is doing some of the most innovative stuff right now in designing the controls that will make fuel cell and other cars of the future work. Rockwell is a leader in robotics. Manpower is one of the biggest and most visible companies in the world.

But what I'm most worried about are the companies that are not on this list. We don't have a large number of small, up and coming companies in emerging industries. The big companies we have are hardly in dying industries, but they are mature industries. Meaning they are not spinning off new companies, and are not poised to explode and hire thousands of new people anytime soon. Rather, they are stable, dependable companies that will be there for many years to come. Which of course is a good thing, but we really need some more up-and-comers so we can get some more jobs in the area over the long run.
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Old April 18th, 2007, 06:16 AM   #1046
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Just as expected, Marcus is part of the opposition for Park East project TIFs.
Quote:
Funds pushed for Park East
City money sought for project
By TOM DAYKIN
[email protected]
Posted: April 16, 2007
A hotel, retail and apartment development proposed for Milwaukee's Park East area is getting a new push for city financing, with an alderman introducing legislation that would force the Department of City Development to analyze the proposal.

The legislation, if approved by the Common Council, would require the department to conduct a feasibility study for providing $9.5 million for the Park East Square project. Ald. Mike D'Amato, chairman of the council's Zoning, Neighborhoods & Development Committee, said he will introduce the legislation today.

D'Amato and other project supporters say Park East Square's first phase - with 129 apartments, 81,400 square feet of commercial space and a 148-room hotel - would be valued at $77.7 million. An additional phase would bring even more development to what's now an empty lot, bordered by N. Milwaukee, N. Jefferson and E. Lyon streets and E. Ogden Ave.

Property taxes from Park East Square's first phase would pay back the $9.5 million, along with $4 million in city interest charges, within 10 years, according to Chicago-based RSC & Associates, which proposed the project. Park East Square would generate $15.4 million in property taxes over 10 years, create 310 construction jobs during the project and provide 200 retail and hotel jobs once it's completed, according to RSC estimates.

Department officials, who couldn't be reached for comment Monday, have opposed city financing for Park East Square. City Development Commissioner Rocky Marcoux said RSC should stick with its original plan, which called for a $40.1 million first phase and no public cash.

That smaller project, with 134 apartments and 26,800 square feet of retail space, would generate $10.7 million in property taxes over 10 years, according to RSC. It would create 250 construction jobs and 50 to 75 retail jobs.

D'Amato said it's a "no-brainer" to provide city financing for Park East Square, given the greater number of jobs and higher level of property taxes a larger development would provide. He cited a brief analysis conducted by City Comptroller W. Martin Morics, which said the higher property tax revenue appears to justify the city's risk in helping to finance the project.

Worries of competition
Marcoux, in a letter to project supporters, also said the larger version of RSC's proposal "has little chance" of drawing additional developments to the Park East area, where 16 acres lie vacant along downtown's northern edge.

Marcoux and other department officials have said a subsidized Park East Square could shift hotel and retail activity away from existing downtown businesses, including the Grand Avenue.

Another opponent is Greg Marcus, executive vice president of Marcus Corp., which operates three downtown hotels: InterContinental Milwaukee Hotel, Hilton Milwaukee City Center and the Pfister Hotel. Marcus has said efforts to finance developments that include new hotel rooms will shift business away from existing hotels.

Rich Curto, RSC's chief executive officer, said Park East Square would feature a boutique hotel and new, entertainment-oriented retailers that would draw more people to downtown. That would help increase the overall demand for downtown retail and hotel space, he said.

Curto also said RSC would pledge not to seek any of the Grand Avenue's current tenants.

Curto, whose firm is pursuing projects in other cities, said he needs to make a decision within 30 days on whether to proceed with Park East Square. The County Board agreed in 2005 to sell 2 acres to RSC for $2.7 million, and in late 2006, the board approved RSC's revised plans.

Park East Square would be the first project on county-owned land in the Park East redevelopment area, which includes privately owned parcels. The county-owned properties were made available by the 2004 demolition of the former Park East Freeway stub.

"It's disappointing that there is this stalemate," Curto said.
Good job Alderman D'Amato

All I wanna know is
1. What "current tenants" would RSC even WANT in his development?
2. What "current tenants" are even at the Grand Avenue?

I feel strongly that other retail would come to Milwaukee if it didn't have to choose the Grand Avenue as its location. The Grand Avenue unfortunately has landed a negative mark across the retail board. While improving, its still not a magnet for the owners of the new condos across the downtown area - whether it be Third Ward, Walkers Point, UCT, Kilbourn, etc...., those owners of the $300,000+ condo aren't shopping there.

And all that's plain to see is
1. Marcus would have some competition that he never had before, since the majority of hotels downtown aren't of the same star rating as his big three - IC, Pfister, Hilton. I mean - we all know he can easily handle the Hyatt. But the Hyatt, a Renassiance ClubSport possible in the Third Ward, Kingston in the Park East, a W and Aloft in either the Ghazi or Ruvin/Gatehouse project, etc, etc, etc. I say may the best hotels in quality, customer service, and attractiveness win. No need for monopolies in Milwaukee's CBD.

Last edited by brewcityfan; April 18th, 2007 at 06:25 AM.
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Old April 18th, 2007, 06:37 AM   #1047
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brewcityfan View Post
Just as expected, Marcus is part of the opposition for Park East project TIFs.


Good job Alderman D'Amato

All I wanna know is
1. What "current tenants" would RSC even WANT in his development?
2. What "current tenants" are even at the Grand Avenue?

I feel strongly that other retail would come to Milwaukee if it didn't have to choose the Grand Avenue as its location. The Grand Avenue unfortunately has landed a negative mark across the retail board. While improving, its still not a magnet for the owners of the new condos across the downtown area - whether it be Third Ward, Walkers Point, UCT, Kilbourn, etc...., those owners of the $300,000+ condo aren't shopping there.

And all that's plain to see is
1. Marcus would have some competition that he never had before, since the majority of hotels downtown aren't of the same star rating as his big three - IC, Pfister, Hilton. I mean - we all know he can easily handle the Hyatt. But the Hyatt, a Renassiance ClubSport possible in the Third Ward, Kingston in the Park East, a W and Aloft in either the Ghazi or Ruvin/Gatehouse project, etc, etc, etc. I say may the best hotels in quality, customer service, and attractiveness win. No need for monopolies in Milwaukee's CBD.
Again, there is a huge difference in allowing more hotels to get built, and giving new hotels TIF. I agree, may the best hotels in quality, customer service and attractiveness win...in the free market.

Why the hell can't Curto figure out how to build a hotel without TIF? How were hotels built before the TIF law was enacted? Private financing.
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Old April 18th, 2007, 06:38 AM   #1048
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brewcityfan View Post
Just as expected, Marcus is part of the opposition for Park East project TIFs.


Good job Alderman D'Amato



And all that's plain to see is
1. Marcus would have some competition that he never had before, since the majority of hotels downtown aren't of the same star rating as his big three - IC, Pfister, Hilton. I mean - we all know he can easily handle the Hyatt. But the Hyatt, a Renassiance ClubSport possible in the Third Ward, Kingston in the Park East, a W and Aloft in either the Ghazi or Ruvin/Gatehouse project, etc, etc, etc. I say may the best hotels in quality, customer service, and attractiveness win. No need for monopolies in Milwaukee's CBD.
What did I say about the Marcus Corporation on the previous page?! You knew they had to have a hand in opposition to any new higher-end hotel competition.

Last edited by Oshkosh49; April 18th, 2007 at 06:45 AM.
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Old April 18th, 2007, 06:43 AM   #1049
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Quote:
Originally Posted by milwaukeeunseen View Post
But what I'm most worried about are the companies that are not on this list. We don't have a large number of small, up and coming companies in emerging industries.
You wouldn't see any small, up and coming companies, from any city on this list. That's why it's called the Fortune 500. Which consist of the largest 500 companies in the world.
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Old April 18th, 2007, 07:00 AM   #1050
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MilwaukeeD View Post
Again, there is a huge difference in allowing more hotels to get built, and giving new hotels TIF. I agree, may the best hotels in quality, customer service and attractiveness win...in the free market.

Why the hell can't Curto figure out how to build a hotel without TIF? How were hotels built before the TIF law was enacted? Private financing.
MilwaukeeD, I fully understand your point. But now there's an added wrinkle to today's business fabric in the form of TIFs. So why not try to take advantage of what's now allowed by law. There's nothing to say that Marcus wouldn't want to use TIFs in their future project plans is there? Therefore, everybody is on equal footing if they choose to apply for a TIF in the future. Marcus is not being excluded.
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Old April 18th, 2007, 07:47 AM   #1051
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oshkosh49 View Post
MilwaukeeD, I fully understand your point. But now there's an added wrinkle to today's business fabric in the form of TIFs. So why not try to take advantage of what's now allowed by law. There's nothing to say that Marcus wouldn't want to use TIFs in their future project plans is there? Therefore, everybody is on equal footing if they choose to apply for a TIF in the future. Marcus is not being excluded.
I think that's a point that everybody is missing out on. While Marcus might not be interested in doing anything further concerning downtown development, if he ever did - the TIF option would be there for him as well. I don't feel there's any singling out or discrimination pertaining who gets it and who doesn't. As the Business Journal article mentioned last Friday - Ruvin might also be interested in taking advantage of a TIF. Ghazi - while at a parcel that needed rehab, already got a TIF without the 3-letter nickname. The city sold or will be selling it to Ghazi for $1. And who's to say he won't be aiming also for an actual TIF after that?

There's so many developments going on downtown that could use city (and county) assistance to build something bigger, better, or both. And I don't see downtown Milwaukee entering a downfall in the future - instead I see it becoming something better than it is today. If I'm right in that assumption, then there should be no problems with the city regaining their funds back in taxes on the specific project. I think my favorite phrase now is "Look outside the box". The future remains bright and shouldn't be dimmed in the least.
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Old April 18th, 2007, 09:01 AM   #1052
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brewcityfan
Ghazi - while at a parcel that needed rehab, already got a TIF without the 3-letter nickname. The city sold or will be selling it to Ghazi for $1.
Selling land to a developer at a discounted price and issuing tax incremental financing for a development are two fundamentally different things.

For starters, with a discounted land sale (like Ghazi), there is no diversion of increased property tax revenue generated by the new development away from the usual taxing jurisdictions (the County, the City, MPS, MATC) that property taxes help fund. That means 100% of the property taxes collected from the Ghazi project would go toward paying for police, fire, transit, schools, parks, roads, and all kinds of other things, right away, from Day One. That does not happen under tax incremental financing, where the increased property tax revenue generated by a development is diverted away from those things for an extended period of time (the police, fire, schools, transit, parks, etc. do not get the benefits of increased property tax revenue at Day One, but perhaps Year Five, or Ten, or Twenty-Seven, depending on how the numbers are crunched).

So no, it is not a TIF without the three-letter nickname.
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Old April 18th, 2007, 09:20 AM   #1053
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Markitect View Post
Selling land to a developer at a discounted price and issuing tax incremental financing for a development are two fundamentally different things.

For starters, with a discounted land sale (like Ghazi), there is no diversion of increased property tax revenue generated by the new development away from the usual taxing jurisdictions (the County, the City, MPS, MATC) that property taxes help fund. That means 100% of the property taxes collected from the Ghazi project would go toward paying for police, fire, transit, schools, parks, roads, and all kinds of other things, right away, from Day One. That does not happen under tax incremental financing, where the increased property tax revenue generated by a development is diverted away from those things for an extended period of time (the police, fire, schools, transit, parks, etc. do not get the benefits of increased property tax revenue at Day One, but perhaps Year Five, or Ten, or Twenty-Seven, depending on how the numbers are crunched).

So no, it is not a TIF without the three-letter nickname.
I'm glad you bypassed my entire point. The city did not and was not forced to sell that land for $1 to Ghazi. Last I heard, the Development panel recommended that the city do so due to the cleanup on the parcel of land. If the city didn't offer that price, I'm sure it could have been a lot higher, and Ghazi at that time wasn't indicating or complaining about the cost of purchasing the property. And on top of this, Ghazi hasn't indicated on whether or not he would also like a formal TIF - the whole shababble you just mentioned. A TIF is generally used to encourage and promote development in an area where the community sees fit. Selling land to a developer for $1 might not have the whole technical readout, but it sure is also promoting and encouraging development in that particular area as well. Hence, a TIF without the three-letter nicknamme. Or, to be P.C, similar to a TIF, but without all the shababble.
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Old April 18th, 2007, 04:17 PM   #1054
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Originally Posted by brewcityfan View Post
There's so many developments going on downtown that could use city (and county) assistance to build something bigger, better, or both. And I don't see downtown Milwaukee entering a downfall in the future - instead I see it becoming something better than it is today.
Then, we shouldn't have to use TIF for hotels, the hotels will come on their own. Use the TIF to get another Manpower...which sparked all of these hotel proposals to begin with.
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Old April 18th, 2007, 04:20 PM   #1055
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If the city didn't offer that price, I'm sure it could have been a lot higher, and Ghazi at that time wasn't indicating or complaining about the cost of purchasing the property.
I've never heard of a developer not complain about a land price. You make it sound like the City was just like, "You know what, we don't need any money, here have it for a $1." You really think that Ghazi didn't ask for it to be a $1?
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Old April 18th, 2007, 04:36 PM   #1056
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I've never heard of a developer not complain about a land price. You make it sound like the City was just like, "You know what, we don't need any money, here have it for a $1." You really think that Ghazi didn't ask for it to be a $1?
As far as I know there's no record of him asking for any price for the land. Obviously every developer would like their land purchases to only be $1, or $0.01. The point is the city development panel recommended that price - let's not dog around the whole issue of what Ghazi needs or wants. That was a city recommendation, not his.
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Old April 18th, 2007, 04:51 PM   #1057
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TIF>

brewcityfan> Should we give a TIF to Walmart to build in the parkeast? Of course we shouldn't. Has it ocurred to you the proposal from RSC just might not be that good?
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Old April 18th, 2007, 04:58 PM   #1058
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brewcityfan> Are you under the philosophy that any development is good development? What should the city not TIF?
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Old April 18th, 2007, 05:22 PM   #1059
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brewcityfan View Post
As far as I know there's no record of him asking for any price for the land. Obviously every developer would like their land purchases to only be $1, or $0.01. The point is the city development panel recommended that price - let's not dog around the whole issue of what Ghazi needs or wants. That was a city recommendation, not his.
Well of course he would never say that publicly. Don't be naive. The city development panel did not recommend that price, they approved that price. There is a difference.
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Old April 18th, 2007, 06:23 PM   #1060
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brewcityfan> Should we give a TIF to Walmart to build in the parkeast? Of course we shouldn't. Has it ocurred to you the proposal from RSC just might not be that good?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Twoaday View Post
brewcityfan> Are you under the philosophy that any development is good development? What should the city not TIF?
Absolutely not. As I've said in previous posts, however, downtown Milwaukee is going through great improvements and adding a lot of great developments and proposals to its file. Obviously a Wal-Mart wouldn't work out downtown - I'd actually be embarrassed for the city if someone threw a Wal-Mart proposal out there. My thoughts are not from a suburban mindset when it comes to this issue. And if RSC's plan was that terrible, I don't think aldermen like Mr. D'Amato would be stepping to the plate and bringing this issue to the full Common Council. I also add that in that Business Journal article - a lot of developers now are looking at how the city is handling RSC's proposal and request - possibly using that as a precedent for their own developments (if they were thinking about one or currently in one, like Ruvin's 2 developments)

Concerning what the city should and should not TIF - that's something that needs to be thought over and discussed fully for each new project presented. You can't have a standard no-TIF rule that applies throughout. But I don't feel that any city, especially Milwaukee, should not assist because some individuals, like Marcus, don't want any competition in downtown Milwaukee. And the worry that these developments might grab The Grand Avenue tenants is, IMO, bs - because right now I can't think of any store that any developer would want that's currently in The Grand.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MilwaukeeD View Post
Well of course he would never say that publicly. Don't be naive. The city development panel did not recommend that price, they approved that price. There is a difference.
Well that furthered my point - it's not even out for discussion, it's already approved. And I'm not trying to be naive - I'm just trying to see the full picture here, and knowing how well news leaks I'm sure some reporter would have got a drift if Ghazi was ticked concerning the price of the land.
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