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Old April 23rd, 2007, 10:07 AM   #1121
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I think Mark hit some great points, rebuffed some of what I'm saying, and I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one who has somewhat of a favorable view on this project and is openly supporting it on this thread and others. I think everything has been said with enough decent facts and points as to the favorable future of Milwaukee's transit. honest86 brought up something we Milwaukeeians forget when it comes to transit, myself included: Chicagoland is creeping up on us from the south. Chicagoans proudly announce on other threads that Milwaukee should be and WILL be part of Chicago's CSA/MSA/whatever term by 2020. That means new population and development regardless of whether the KRM is there or not. In fact, the KRM will be built around the same time hopefully when new subdivisions, apartment/condo complexes, and businesses begin to move in as well.

Another resounding point is every mayor and community council/board on the KRM line has overwhelmingly welcomed this project - to the point where Racine and Kenosha leaders (200,000+ population represented) are literally begging Milwaukee leaders to move their butts on the issue.

Both of those points, no one can deny. And I will agree with Mark on the point that an extra $13 for a car rental isn't going to shove away visitors or conventions. As I've said before, if they're that extremely concerned about $13 then something's wrong with their vacation plans in general.
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Old April 23rd, 2007, 02:19 PM   #1122
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Originally Posted by honest86 View Post
While you may think that the KRM line wont work, it would be a nice start to getting a line running to Milwaukee, as long as people realize that it is a start, and that for its continued success it will eventually need to grow is what matters. What the KRM line will do is it will draw people who are in the middle between Milwaukee and Chicago, and encourage them to choose Milwaukee by providing them with accessibility, and opportunity.

You argue that there is already a train running between Milwaukee and Chicago, and I say good, that means that there are people who are used to riding a train in that region, so it will be easier to get a faster growing ridership. Combine the KRM with the mayors proposal for COMET and the Circulator and Milwaukee will have the start of a decent transit system. As far as the question about a transit system that goes towards Madison, I want to ask about the future. Yes currently there is a larger portion of the metro extending in the Madison direction, but if you look at the growth projections for the metro, as well as the timetable for this project, and then estimate when they will be adding on to it, you will realize that it make sense for this project to go south. Maybe if the project was built right now, and opening tomorrow, it might make sense for it to extend towards Madison, but it isn't.

Finally, I want to ask, why do you oppose this? Is it because it doesn't affect the suburb you live in, or is it because you don't think Milwaukee should ever have rail transit. If you are not opposed to Milwaukee having rail sometime in the future, then why are you opposed to KRM?
I don't understand why any time someone brings up points "against" the KRM line, it's seen as some sort of personal attack. It's not. I'm simply bringing up what I feel as though are valid points in my eyes... and others are doing the same.

And the suburb joke was pretty funny but I've lived on the east side for five years now and hadn't owned a car for just as long (until I was forced to buy one a month ago, sadly)... so if anyone has a right to chime in with regard to public transport wants and needs, it's me.
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Old April 23rd, 2007, 06:24 PM   #1123
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I don't understand why any time someone brings up points "against" the KRM line, it's seen as some sort of personal attack. It's not. I'm simply bringing up what I feel as though are valid points in my eyes... and others are doing the same.

And the suburb joke was pretty funny but I've lived on the east side for five years now and hadn't owned a car for just as long (until I was forced to buy one a month ago, sadly)... so if anyone has a right to chime in with regard to public transport wants and needs, it's me.
Maybe if people weren't so personal in their opposition, I wouldn't be so personal back. I mean this KRM discussion began in this thread again because someone decided to personally attack me because I was a supporter. But I can definitely see your points - they're valid and do make some sense.

And I think honest86 was referring to the other opposition to the KRM, not you specifically.
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Old April 23rd, 2007, 06:51 PM   #1124
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I would believe a Milwaukee to Waukesha rail service would be successful due to the many people and congestion of the area. However, it seems that the people behind this actually want it to be built and the areas west of Milwaukee have nixed almost any mass transit coming their way from Milwaukee. It is hard enough to get these projects built, why not build it where the people are receptive to it. Besides, better links with the Chicago area is another positive to sell the project with.
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Old April 23rd, 2007, 08:37 PM   #1125
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30-story tower for "question mark" site @ 3rd & Juneay (SW corner)

This article was just released by BizTimes Daily

Another hotel tower proposed for Park East
A developer plans to construct a 30-story building with condominiums, a hotel and retail space on a 15,000-square-foot lot at the southwest corner of Old World Third Street and Juneau Avenue, just south of the Park East Freeway corridor in downtown Milwaukee.
"It's very nice," said Alderman Robert Bauman, who represents the downtown area and said he was briefed recently on the plans for the site. "Top notch."
About half of the building would be for residential condominiums, and a hotel would account for most the remainder of the structure. The first floor would feature retail space, Bauman said.
The property, 1141 N. Old World Third St., was purchased last year by Interventure and Black Coral Holdings from De Pere-based Garot Hospitality Inc., which had planned to build a Country Inn & Suites hotel on the site, but later dropped those plans.
A formal announcement about the project will be made later this week, said William Pulkinen, a real estate lawyer and one of the partners with the development group, which is led by Rick Barrett. Barrett declined to comment about the project.
The developers are not planning to seek tax incremental financing (TIF) assistance for the project, Bauman said.
For months, the property owners have placed large orange question mark sculptures in the vacant lot, prompting some downtown workers to call the site the "question mark lot."
The property is just south of two major developments being planned by Mequon-based Ruvin Development Inc. and Dallas-based Gatehouse Capital Corp. in the Park East corridor. The Sydney Hih block is just north of the lot, across Juneau Avenue, where Ruvin and Gatehouse plan to build a mixed-use development with an 180-room boutique hotel, 70 residential condominiums, 100,000 square feet of office space and 30,000 square feet of retail space.
That project would include the redevelopment of the Sydney Hih building and a 25-story tower for the hotel, which would be operated by San Francisco-based Kimpton Hotels, and the condos.
To the northeast of the "question mark lot," Ruvin and Gatehouse plan to build a 10-story building along the Milwaukee River with a boutique hotel and office space for the Milwaukee office of Cramer-Krasselt, which plans to move there from 733 N. Van Buren St. and will occupy about 50,000 square feet of space on two floors. Ruvin and Gatehouse have been negotiating with White Plains, N.Y.-based Starwood Hotels & Resorts Worldwide to get an Aloft Hotel in the building. Aloft is a new hotel brand for Starwood's hip and trendy W Hotels division.
Another project taking shape near the "question mark lot" is the new Manpower Inc. corporate headquarters, which will be completed later this year, two blocks to the north along the Milwaukee River.
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Old April 23rd, 2007, 09:03 PM   #1126
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Originally Posted by sideliner View Post
The developers are not planning to seek tax incremental financing (TIF) assistance for the project, Bauman said.
Hmm, looks like someone knows how to put a project together without a TIF...and right across the street from Ruvin...and bigger. How can they do this and Ruvin can't?
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Old April 23rd, 2007, 09:19 PM   #1127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sideliner View Post
This article was just released by BizTimes Daily

Another hotel tower proposed for Park East
A developer plans to construct a 30-story building with condominiums, a hotel and retail space on a 15,000-square-foot lot at the southwest corner of Old World Third Street and Juneau Avenue, just south of the Park East Freeway corridor in downtown Milwaukee.
"It's very nice," said Alderman Robert Bauman, who represents the downtown area and said he was briefed recently on the plans for the site. "Top notch."
About half of the building would be for residential condominiums, and a hotel would account for most the remainder of the structure. The first floor would feature retail space, Bauman said.
The property, 1141 N. Old World Third St., was purchased last year by Interventure and Black Coral Holdings from De Pere-based Garot Hospitality Inc., which had planned to build a Country Inn & Suites hotel on the site, but later dropped those plans.
A formal announcement about the project will be made later this week, said William Pulkinen, a real estate lawyer and one of the partners with the development group, which is led by Rick Barrett. Barrett declined to comment about the project.
The developers are not planning to seek tax incremental financing (TIF) assistance for the project, Bauman said.
For months, the property owners have placed large orange question mark sculptures in the vacant lot, prompting some downtown workers to call the site the "question mark lot."
The property is just south of two major developments being planned by Mequon-based Ruvin Development Inc. and Dallas-based Gatehouse Capital Corp. in the Park East corridor. The Sydney Hih block is just north of the lot, across Juneau Avenue, where Ruvin and Gatehouse plan to build a mixed-use development with an 180-room boutique hotel, 70 residential condominiums, 100,000 square feet of office space and 30,000 square feet of retail space.
That project would include the redevelopment of the Sydney Hih building and a 25-story tower for the hotel, which would be operated by San Francisco-based Kimpton Hotels, and the condos.
To the northeast of the "question mark lot," Ruvin and Gatehouse plan to build a 10-story building along the Milwaukee River with a boutique hotel and office space for the Milwaukee office of Cramer-Krasselt, which plans to move there from 733 N. Van Buren St. and will occupy about 50,000 square feet of space on two floors. Ruvin and Gatehouse have been negotiating with White Plains, N.Y.-based Starwood Hotels & Resorts Worldwide to get an Aloft Hotel in the building. Aloft is a new hotel brand for Starwood's hip and trendy W Hotels division.
Another project taking shape near the "question mark lot" is the new Manpower Inc. corporate headquarters, which will be completed later this year, two blocks to the north along the Milwaukee River.
As much as many don't like the new manpower headquaters.

-It is still a victory for the city
-Will help with development for the park east
-Is becoming an anchor for the area for proposals such as these.

I hope a rendering will be following shortly. If we had the proposed buildings all built in the park east a nice mini skyline would pop up.
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Old April 23rd, 2007, 09:19 PM   #1128
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Hmm, looks like someone knows how to put a project together without a TIF...and right across the street from Ruvin...and bigger. How can they do this and Ruvin can't?
Hm. Good question. I guess we'll have to wait and see how this one materializes. Hopefully they'll keep their word about officially talking about the project later this week.
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Old April 23rd, 2007, 09:21 PM   #1129
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I didn't think Ruvin asked for a TIF for his projects, it was the developer of the lots near the East Pointe Shopping Center
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Old April 23rd, 2007, 09:27 PM   #1130
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Ruvin & RSC

Both Ruvin & RSC have or intended to ask for a TIF.
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Old April 23rd, 2007, 09:29 PM   #1131
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I think the big word right now to keep an eye on is "not planning to seek". If they don't, all the better for the city. If they do, then all the excitement going on right now will turn a bit sour. It's a wait and see game with these developers....

What I like is this is the 3rd proposed tower that is 30+ stories. Milwaukee's getting taller!
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Old April 23rd, 2007, 09:46 PM   #1132
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The corner of 3rd & Juneau could be completely transformed by the end of the decade into one of the densest intersections in the city...
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Old April 23rd, 2007, 10:56 PM   #1133
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Well when SBT was talking about official talk by the end of the week, they should have said by the end of today! The Journal Sentinel got some updated info on what's what.
Quote:
MONDAY, April 23, 2007, 1:56 p.m.
By Tom Daykin

30-story development proposed in Park East
A local developer is proposing a 30-story hotel and condominium project for downtown Milwaukee.

Rick Barrett said today he plans to build the $73 million project at the southwest corner of W. Juneau Ave. and N. Old World 3rd St. An investors group formed by Barrett in 2006 bought the lot, which has lately been used as a staging area for another nearby construction project.

Barrett said he's assembling financing for the project. It would feature a 120-room Element Hotel, a new extended stay brand from Starwood Hotels & Resorts Worldwide Inc.

Starwood also is considering downtown for a possible Aloft Hotel. Several other downtown hotel proposals are in the works, but some industry observers say only a few of the plans are likely to make it off the drawing board.

Along with the Element Hotel, Barrett said his 400,000-square-foot development would feature 80 condos, including 10 penthouse units. It also would have 16,000 square feet of retail space.

Ald. Robert Bauman, whose district includes the site, said Barrett is not seeking city financial assistance for the project. Bauman said he supports the development, and praised the building's design as "very attractive."

The project would be within the city's Park East redevelopment area, and is just across Juneau Ave. from a hotel and condo development planned by local development Robert Ruvin and Dallas-based Gatehouse Capital Corp.

Ruvin and Gatehouse are planning a 20-story condominium and commercial development, including a 180-room Kimpton Hotel, on a block bordered by W. Juneau Ave., W. McKinley Blvd., N. Old World 3rd St. and N. 4th St.

Ruvin and Gatehouse also are planning a 120-room Aloft Hotel, and new offices for Cramer-Krasselt ad agency, north of W. Juneau Ave. and east of N. Old World 3rd St.
Starwood is really taking Milwaukee by storm. All they need now is their Westin at the LPT and we're good!
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Old April 24th, 2007, 12:29 AM   #1134
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Excellent news! What more can I say that hasnt been said?

I am very excited to see if all of these proposals come to fruition. That area is going to be pretty hot. Ruvin's two developments right next door--not to mention Manpower, that Staybridge hotel, and the proposed 30 story tower across from Manpower. With all the rest of the stuff in the P.E, the few towers proposed for the Third Ward, the 30 story Chase Bank Parking Tower, Ghazi's 30 story tower, Park Lafayette, and perhaps LPT---Milwaukee is going to have a very respectable skyline.
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Old April 24th, 2007, 02:56 AM   #1135
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Excellent news! What more can I say that hasnt been said?

I am very excited to see if all of these proposals come to fruition. That area is going to be pretty hot. Ruvin's two developments right next door--not to mention Manpower, that Staybridge hotel, and the proposed 30 story tower across from Manpower. With all the rest of the stuff in the P.E, the few towers proposed for the Third Ward, the 30 story Chase Bank Parking Tower, Ghazi's 30 story tower, Park Lafayette, and perhaps LPT---Milwaukee is going to have a very respectable skyline.
Not to be a realist, but, the chances of all of these being built are remote to none -- and a lot closer to none. And, you forgot to throw in Lake Pointe Tower. I'd love to see all of these get done, but don't hold your breath.
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Old April 24th, 2007, 05:17 AM   #1136
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Not to be a realist, but, the chances of all of these being built are remote to none -- and a lot closer to none. And, you forgot to throw in Lake Pointe Tower. I'd love to see all of these get done, but don't hold your breath.
well, I am already assuming LPT is dead. Ruvin is a go, Ghazi will most likely be a go, the Staybridge is U.C., and this, the Water St. tower, and Chase projects have said they dont need a TIF. I think its a possibility all of these are built.
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Old April 24th, 2007, 07:09 AM   #1137
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well, I am already assuming LPT is dead. Ruvin is a go, Ghazi will most likely be a go, the Staybridge is U.C., and this, the Water St. tower, and Chase projects have said they dont need a TIF. I think its a possibility all of these are built.
Lake Point Tower isn't quite "dead" yet, but like with all office development proposals, still needs an anchor tenant or two for a shot of becoming a reality. Plus the approvals and financing. The same can be said for the Block 12 proposal (MLG's tower at Water/Knapp) and the Chase Garage Tower.

Ruvin still has a ways to go before being considered "a go" as neither of his proposals have been approved yet. Nor has he closed the deal on buying the land for either of his projects yet.
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Old April 24th, 2007, 07:15 AM   #1138
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The new development courtesy of JSOnline...
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Old April 24th, 2007, 07:33 AM   #1139
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Lake Point Tower isn't quite "dead" yet, but like with all office development proposals, still needs an anchor tenant or two for a shot of becoming a reality. Plus the approvals and financing. The same can be said for the Block 12 proposal (MLG's tower at Water/Knapp) and the Chase Garage Tower.

Ruvin still has a ways to go before being considered "a go" as neither of his proposals have been approved yet. Nor has he closed the deal on buying the land for either of his projects yet.
You say that Bluewarning is wrong by claiming LPT is dead, but then go on and say all the points that make this proposal what it is today - very, very dead. These buildings need office tenants. The majority of Milwaukee posters pretty much generally claim that downtown Milwaukee's tax atmosphere is preventing businesses locating downtown. Some of these projects have developers that want city assistance. Some posters on here are strongly against that assistance, and the city leaders (except for some on the Common Council) agree.

So, why not cut all the bs gentlemen. These developers planning buildings in Milwaukee are just living in their own fantasy world - because in reality (or the reality that this forum sometimes gives the feeling of) barely any of these will pass out of city hall's front door.

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The new development courtesy of JSOnline...
If this building becomes a reality - this would add class, feeling, and a much needed anchor building to the western edge of downtown. Let's remain positive until something proves us otherwise. My only wish would be that Ruvin add onto or change its design scheme for the building across the street. Another wish would probably be to change the color. Milwaukee is becoming way too white for my taste.
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Old April 24th, 2007, 07:45 AM   #1140
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brewcityfan> Um I know I'm not against all TIFs. But this project proves the point many of us were making that given the right developers there's no need to TIF upscale hotels! This project is not an office building and appears to have the hotel lined up as well as the money so right now it seems more likely to happen.

LPT is completely different they couldn't ever get a tenant lined up, hell they couldn't even get Baird to move across the street! Further yes some projects will make it and others won't but look to the developers. The developers living in their fantasy world assume we'll give them a handout everytime.
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