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Old May 16th, 2007, 11:17 PM   #1461
Markitect
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The problem with the Breakwater's isn't that the published rendering is not a flashy photorealistic rendering, it's that the overall architectural design just is incredibly mediocre. The building itself--not the drawing--has no style, no punch, no interesting architectural characteristics to make it a signature residential highrise set in a prominent location.

This does not mean it has to be "a Calatrava" (as someone made such an accusation here the other day), or something completely revolutionary in the realm of architecture, but it's not too much to expect a design that's a bit more interesting. Have a look at some of the residential highrises recently built, proposed, or under construction in cities like Minneapolis or Portland. They've got some residential highrises with spectacular designs--very stylish, cutting edge, contemporary, with some good use of colors, materials, textures, and massing. That's what we need more of here, especially with the Breakwater.
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Old May 16th, 2007, 11:28 PM   #1462
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Not every building has to be an architectural masterpiece. Some buildings are designed really just to blend in, to not stand out. It seems like this Breakwater project is designed to blend in. Which is fine, but I think what's needed on that site is something a little more distinctive. This tower will become part of the "new" skyline of Milwaukee, the residential towers along the Lakefront just north of Downtown. It's a prominent spot, and it would be great to have a building there that makes a statement.
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Old May 16th, 2007, 11:36 PM   #1463
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Honestly I think ever since the Calatrava addition we Milwaukeeians have always expected ultra-super-top notch proposals. It's like nothing (and I mean NOTHING) is ever to our appeasement. Every proposal within the past month (I could probably say the past 4 months) that has shown its lovely facade on our forum has been bashed, ridiculed, and torn apart to nothingness. It's honestly getting a bit annoying.

Yes, MilwaukeeMark, LPT was one - but apparently the only one where the majority actually praised it.

Hence why I've said we Milwaukeeians are extremely over-picky, and I think a bit cocky since MAM's addition.
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Old May 16th, 2007, 11:46 PM   #1464
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brewcityfan View Post
well, once again we're overly judging this very decent project. I wish one could come around where everyone says it's an awesome project.

I wonder how the reaction was back in the day when the Calatrava addition was first proposed on here.
Well not Calatrava, but the first proposal for Pier Wisconsin was condemned to hell.
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Old May 16th, 2007, 11:54 PM   #1465
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Well not Calatrava, but the first proposal for Pier Wisconsin was condemned to hell.
Just like your lovely comparison of Park Lafayette to a former Chicago low-income housing project.....

Thanks for the additional example.
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Old May 16th, 2007, 11:55 PM   #1466
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Markitect View Post
The problem with the Breakwater's isn't that the published rendering is not a flashy photorealistic rendering, it's that the overall architectural design just is incredibly mediocre. The building itself--not the drawing--has no style, no punch, no interesting architectural characteristics to make it a signature residential highrise set
in a prominent location.
Mediocrity born from developer driven architecture devoid
of any modicum of creativity.
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Old May 17th, 2007, 12:01 AM   #1467
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brewcityfan View Post
Just like your lovely comparison of Park Lafayette to a former Chicago low-income housing project.....

Thanks for the additional example.

I was in the minority I liked the direction of the first Pier Wisconsin, despite
the MAMphiles likening it as sacrilege and the apocalypse because a maritime museum dared to have maritime references like the ubiquitous mast from a schooner like the Dennis Sullivan. (Calatrava I don't think has a trademark on architectural reference to a ship's mast.)

I see the sting of the Waukesha issue doesn't cloud your judgement of people.
Thanks
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Old May 17th, 2007, 12:07 AM   #1468
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The "sting" of the Waukesha issue? I wish I knew what you were referring to but right now I'm on so many fronts concerning Milwaukee's suburbs in the other thread I can't remember it.

And no I don't get clouded over many things. You did say that about P.L. I was only adding another example on top of your MAM example - both really good ones, might I add.
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Old May 17th, 2007, 12:52 AM   #1469
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Quote:
Originally Posted by historybuffer View Post
I was in the minority I liked the direction of the first Pier Wisconsin, despite
the MAMphiles likening it as sacrilege and the apocalypse because a maritime museum dared to have maritime references like the ubiquitous mast from a schooner like the Dennis Sullivan. (Calatrava I don't think has a trademark on architectural reference to a ship's mast.)

I see the sting of the Waukesha issue doesn't cloud your judgement of people.
Thanks
The first Pier Wisconsin was absolutely horrendous. An obvious take off of the Calatrava only executed far far worse...it was like new age brutalism. Thank God we got what we did.

Quote:
Originally Posted by milwaukeeunseen
Not every building has to be an architectural masterpiece. Some buildings are designed really just to blend in, to not stand out. It seems like this Breakwater project is designed to blend in. Which is fine, but I think what's needed on that site is something a little more distinctive. This tower will become part of the "new" skyline of Milwaukee, the residential towers along the Lakefront just north of Downtown. It's a prominent spot, and it would be great to have a building there that makes a statement.
There's a fine line between a building designed to blend in and a mediocre, thoughtlessly designed building. Lamentably, this is of the latter.
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Old May 17th, 2007, 01:31 AM   #1470
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The plan doesn't call for NO development along the river. It sets standards for future development near the river outside of the natural areas above the bluffs.
Good news Mark. I would love to see the Eastside of the River developed more and the Riverwalk continued further North.
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Old May 17th, 2007, 01:42 AM   #1471
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I have to say, Im slightly disapointed by the rendering. Then again, judging by Renner's other projects--we shouldnt have expected another University Club or Kilbourn Tower. This tower is basically a taller, whiter Waterfront/Harborfront. What makes this disapointing is that its in such an incredible location overlooking the lake. The site has some much more potential in terms of design.

With that said, Im not too worried about it. Its not a hideous looking building. Its just very conservative and plain. I welcome any new addition to the skyline and people to the downtown area. Its kind of how I feel about Park Lafayette.

Anyone (probally Markitect) ever know what happened to the Lake Bluff tower? Its in the vicinity of this project. Check out the amazing renderings on this site if you dont recall. http://www.annex5.net/#
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Old May 17th, 2007, 02:28 AM   #1472
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluewarning
Anyone (probally Markitect) ever know what happened to the Lake Bluff tower? Its in the vicinity of this project. Check out the amazing renderings on this site if you dont recall. http://www.annex5.net/#
I would guess that Mandel has its plate full lately with the North End, Domus, RvierCrest, and others, so that any progress on the Lake Bluff proposal is sort of on-hold, reserved for sometime in the future.

Also keep in mind that particular design was only one example out of several possibilities from several different architecture firms that Mandel was considering...so it would probably be a bit premature to go around thinking that's whose design is going to be used.
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Old May 17th, 2007, 03:18 AM   #1473
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Speaking of Mandel, what's going on with the North End. Are they moiving forward with it? They're signs are looking a little ragged, giving me the impression that they're not working on it right now. Anyone?
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Old May 17th, 2007, 05:45 AM   #1474
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The thing about condo's is that not everyone wants the flashiest condo... as someone previously stated, it has a suburb look to it except it is taller. Perhaps that is what the developers were going for, their target market would be suburbanites, so, what would be wrong with designing something that fits into a downtown setting, but which has a suburban feel to it. It creates a comfort zone for suburbanites who want to move downtown.
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Old May 17th, 2007, 05:47 AM   #1475
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Speaking of Mandel, what's going on with the North End. Are they moiving forward with it? They're signs are looking a little ragged, giving me the impression that they're not working on it right now. Anyone?
I'd like to know as well. There are so many projects hovering over Park East it's killing me. The ball needs to get rolling.
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Old May 17th, 2007, 06:19 AM   #1476
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Regarding progress on the North End, keep in mind they have to demolish the tannery first. And tanneries are notorious for using all kinds of nasty chemical processes that go into the production of leather. All of that stuff needs to be identified, contained, and taken care of first (along with other hazardous things found throughout old buildings, like asbestos). So it's not like Mandel can just take a wrecking ball and start knocking stuff down at will. You'll see that once the interior cleanup work is finished.
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Old May 17th, 2007, 08:39 AM   #1477
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On a separate subject, I'm in Portland, OR this week and I have to report what an awesome city this is. And, it's growing in leaps and bounds...and the skyline here reflects it. Unfortunately, it's pretty difficult to get a decent panoramic picture of the skyline (especially for a first-time visitor)...the way the downtown sits between the hills and the Willamette River, and bridges and highways. I was able to take a few pics from the top floor of the convention center, however, and will post them if they are worthwhile. I really like the vitality in this city. And the mountains (Mt. Hood, Mt. St. Helen's and Mt. Rainier) as a backdrop are breathtaking when the sky is clear. Wonderful City. Hope to be back soon when business doesn't interfere with sightseeing. I"ll expand on why I interjected this post here very soon.
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Old May 17th, 2007, 09:34 AM   #1478
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sky? Yea Portland is supposed to be a great great city... Any thoughts on their transit system? as it is credited with a lot of the rebirth of the city?



As far as the new tower I think it's alright my only comment on it is that it doesn't address the street really well as I assume the pedistal is the parking garage. i.e. no acitivity on the street level.
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Old May 17th, 2007, 05:09 PM   #1479
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Quote:
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Good news Mark. I would love to see the Eastside of the River developed more and the Riverwalk continued further North.
I disagree, it will be nice to have this natural area so close to the city. Any development should be below the North Avenue dam. The walking trails, informal bike trails, and river all come together in a wonderful way. We already have an intensly developed area of the Milwaukee river, moving it up-stream will make both places less special.
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Old May 17th, 2007, 06:24 PM   #1480
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On a separate subject, I'm in Portland, OR this week and I have to report what an awesome city this is...
Have you managed to avoid their light rail system? I keed I keed... I really want to visit that city.
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