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Old May 17th, 2007, 06:58 PM   #1481
mbradleyc
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse276 View Post
I disagree, it will be nice to have this natural area so close to the city. Any development should be below the North Avenue dam. The walking trails, informal bike trails, and river all come together in a wonderful way. We already have an intensly developed area of the Milwaukee river, moving it up-stream will make both places less special.
I agree with that. The RiverWalk should end at the North Avenue footbridge or just below. From there it should be trails along the river. The whole point of the Central Park concept is to keep the tranquility of a wilderness as much as possible-Central Park being a bit of a misnomer to me. I don't think there should be any buildings at all and what is there, such as the cardboard company, should be removed as soon as they push on. The idea of being able to canoe down the river and not hear or see traffic, but be surrounded by wildlife and people fishing, that's cool. Philadelphia's Fairmount Park is more like it.

I thought the first Pier Wisconsin was bad too. I didn't see any maritime reference in it at all. It looked like a big bedouin carnival tent to me.

My sister lived in Portland for about six years. I have been there a few times. I wasn't really impressed. I don't really enjoy river towns to begin with. I think Milwaukee has got it all over Portland. Except for the mountains.

Pretty ladies, though.

I did ride the light rail system and it is excellent.
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Old May 17th, 2007, 07:43 PM   #1482
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hmmm see I think if the Paper company was moved out an expanded UWM campus could go in there...
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Old May 17th, 2007, 07:59 PM   #1483
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The first Pier Wisconsin was absolutely horrendous. An obvious take off of the Calatrava only executed far far worse...it was like new age brutalism. Thank God we got what we did.


There's a fine line between a building designed to blend in and a mediocre, thoughtlessly designed building. Lamentably, this is of the latter.
Brutalism is slowly creeping back and Machado and Silvetti Associates of Boston are at the forefront of this neo-incarnation. This Boston firm was
selected to echo the Brutalist stylings of the Chazen Museum of Art in
Madison for doubling the current footprint. The original museum (Harry Weese) works (functionally & esthetically) as the materials and lack of portals suggest Brutalism, but not the traditional broad wall expanses, and sheer monsterous scale characteristics. Not all Harry Weese buildings are abominations, The PAC set back from Kilbourn and Water mitigates
the vulture like hovering.

Pier Wisconsin's first draft was a solid starting point esthetically as it was
far from the conservative proposals that developer driven highrises in town
create (with some few exceptions like Ruvin's in Park East.)
With that first draft I was imagining refinement, scaling back, or cutting away the first sail like elements,
hoping the Mequon firm would avoid the Sydney Opera House or any reference to Frank Gehry form wise.
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Old May 17th, 2007, 08:17 PM   #1484
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I just found this, the H-D museum construction webcam I suppose it's old news, but at least it's always changing

http://www.h-dmuseum.oxblue.com/?loc...bmLocale=en_US
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Old May 17th, 2007, 08:19 PM   #1485
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I am a big fan of the OXBlue webcams. Every construction project should be required to have one...
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Old May 17th, 2007, 08:54 PM   #1486
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This is good news:

Lakeshore State Park Set To Open June 20
People Can Camp, Fish, Kayak

POSTED: 3:11 pm CDT May 8, 2007

MILWAUKEE -- It won't be long before those who love to take advantage of the lakefront will have another place to go enjoy the outdoors.

Lakeshore State Park, currently under construction, is 17 acres of green space in downtown Milwaukee.

"We're trying to soften the urban landscape by bringing in a lot of green space in the downtown area," park Superintendent Clarke Johnson said.


The land stretches out into the lake like a small peninsula.

"It's not really designed for swimming, but it's for people to launch their canoes," Johnson said.

The park sits across from Summerfest grounds and adjacent to Discovery World.

"There will be 20 boating slips -- transit boating slips that people can reserve," Johnson said.

People can also go fishing along the lake.There is a 50-foot diameter handicap-accessible fishing pier

The $17 million project is also designed to attract those afraid of the bigger areas along the lake.

"We heard a lot people talk that they were afraid of how big Lake Michigan was, and they wanted a place where they could learn to canoe and kayak," Johnson said.

Camping will be allowed on the property.

Opening day is scheduled for June 20.

To get there, take Michigan Street all the way down to the lakefront, jump on the Hank Aaron Trail and cross the bridge.

For more information on the park, visit Lakeshore State Park
Copyright 2007 by TheMilwaukeeChannel.com. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed
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Old May 17th, 2007, 09:58 PM   #1487
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Wow, they are going to allow camping?? That would be really cool to wake up in the morning and be right on the lake like that.

Also, on a side note... I was in Sacramento this week and while watching tv a comercial for Citgo came on trying to make the company look like it did all kinds of friendly things for alternative fuels and what not. Just as I was rolling my eyes for the third time the commercial concluded with a citgo station with a few sckyscrapers in the backround. Well it suddently hit me it was the Citgo station right on the river south of downtown! Thought that was fun little note you guys would enjoy.
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Old May 17th, 2007, 11:38 PM   #1488
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I absolutely LOVE where the Knapp building will be. That will go a long way to connecting the downtown to the prospect ave high rises.
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Old May 18th, 2007, 12:46 AM   #1489
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I would guess that Mandel has its plate full lately with the North End, Domus, RvierCrest, and others, so that any progress on the Lake Bluff proposal is sort of on-hold, reserved for sometime in the future.

Also keep in mind that particular design was only one example out of several possibilities from several different architecture firms that Mandel was considering...so it would probably be a bit premature to go around thinking that's whose design is going to be used.
Ah, I forgot that this was a Mandel project. Thanks for the info about it Mark.

I was kind of guessing that the awesome rendering was a pipe dream. Something this cool would only be built in Europe, Dubai, or China. Hopefully, I am wrong about it because I think that it would look incredible on that spot.
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Old May 18th, 2007, 12:59 AM   #1490
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse276 View Post
I disagree, it will be nice to have this natural area so close to the city. Any development should be below the North Avenue dam. The walking trails, informal bike trails, and river all come together in a wonderful way. We already have an intensly developed area of the Milwaukee river, moving it up-stream will make both places less special.
We have so much parkland in this city though. And I think there is plenty of land to further develop the Milwaukee River and still add some more parks.
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Old May 18th, 2007, 01:20 AM   #1491
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How much more parkland does the city need? You got the Veterans/Bradford Beach, a new state park, the new Kilbourn-Reservoir Park, Gordon Park, Cesears Park, Lake Park, Kern-Hubbard, Kletzsch, and the gigantic Estabrook/Lincoln/Meaux parks. Not to mention the rest of the smaller ones all around the downtown area like MacArthur, Pere Marquette, Cathedral Square, and the huge Chimney Park in the Valley.

I realize that more parks are never a bad thing---but I think that development is what this city needs. Personally, I envison lesser condo projects down river and more riverfront retail, dining, and entertainment.
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Old May 18th, 2007, 01:44 AM   #1492
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The natural wilderness-like character of the Milwaukee River north of North Avenue is quite unique, being that it is smack in the middle of a large city...that's something that cannot be found in very many cities. By preserving that, leaving that segment undeveloped (most of it is currently either parkland or floodplain anyway, meaning it's pretty much off limits to development already), it adds value to the city. It's a selling point for future development along the Greenway, at specific locations where development is indeed possible.

The riverbanks won't be developed. Nor will the bluffs. But development would be allowed in places set back from the top of the bluff's ridge. The RiverWalk will be extended, but it won't be done is the usual urbanized, hardscaped form. Rather it will be extended via more natural means, with softer landscaping.
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Old May 18th, 2007, 02:21 AM   #1493
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluewarning View Post
How much more parkland does the city need? You got the Veterans/Bradford Beach, a new state park, the new Kilbourn-Reservoir Park, Gordon Park, Cesears Park, Lake Park, Kern-Hubbard, Kletzsch, and the gigantic Estabrook/Lincoln/Meaux parks. Not to mention the rest of the smaller ones all around the downtown area like MacArthur, Pere Marquette, Cathedral Square, and the huge Chimney Park in the Valley.

I realize that more parks are never a bad thing---but I think that development is what this city needs. Personally, I envison lesser condo projects down river and more riverfront retail, dining, and entertainment.
I think you'll find that investment in the city's public spaces play a majour role in development/redevelopment (though obviously not as important as economic factours and transit). Rehabbing old spaces and creating new parks is one way to keep the socialist era of land preservation and the 'necklace of parks' spirit alive. I'm excited for the new Lakeshore State Park, though I'm upset I'll be in Paris when i opens. Maybe in decades (I mean, decades, or a real long time), there can be pedestrian access from the lower Third Ward to Jones Island and a connection between the lakefront parks North and South of the river (there's a pretty big gap from the river's mouth down to the yacht club, where the parkway starts again and goes way down to about Grant Park. Currently the only bike/pedestran passage from North to South from the lakefront is by going all the way West to First St. and KK).

Last edited by CGII; May 18th, 2007 at 02:26 AM.
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Old May 18th, 2007, 02:30 AM   #1494
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though I'm upset I'll be in Paris when i opens.
Yeah, that is tough!
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Old May 18th, 2007, 02:34 AM   #1495
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Ya, I've been really psyched to make the grand opening.
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Old May 18th, 2007, 02:35 AM   #1496
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You do make some good points--but the problem I have is that nobody can access most of the River. I doubt it ever could be done--but I think it would be cool to have the Riverwalk (how you described, with "natural" trails) extend at least as far as Capitol Dr--perhaps as far as Estabrook. Maybe some more staircases to connect you to the city & Oak Leaf Trail, a couple pedestrian bridges to make crossing the river easier, some kayak landings, and some other parkland amenities.

I do think that the Parks we have are special. The Oak Leaf Trail in particular is one of this cities best assets. A little off topic-but I would like to see the city stress use of these trails and riding bikes more---especially with gas prices rising. The trail system here is second to none--especially with the addition of the Hank Aaron St. trail.
http://www.county.milwaukee.gov/disp...map06lgtxt.pdf
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Old May 18th, 2007, 02:39 AM   #1497
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The Oak Leaf Trail, which runs to about Hampton throuh Estabrook Park, is accessible at the terminus of the East side of the river's riverfront unpaved trail at Riverside Park. Granted, it might take a little navigation finesse and a steep climb but it does hook up. In fact, it might even link up to it immeaditely North of Locust, come to think of it.
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Old May 18th, 2007, 02:52 AM   #1498
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I think you'll find that investment in the city's public spaces play a majour role in development/redevelopment (though obviously not as important as economic factours and transit). Rehabbing old spaces and creating new parks is one way to keep the socialist era of land preservation and the 'necklace of parks' spirit alive. I'm excited for the new Lakeshore State Park, though I'm upset I'll be in Paris when i opens. Maybe in decades (I mean, decades, or a real long time), there can be pedestrian access from the lower Third Ward to Jones Island and a connection between the lakefront parks North and South of the river (there's a pretty big gap from the river's mouth down to the yacht club, where the parkway starts again and goes way down to about Grant Park. Currently the only bike/pedestran passage from North to South from the lakefront is by going all the way West to First St. and KK).
I also am very excited about Lakeshore St. Park. Its creation, in my opinion, will be considered one of the best ideas in the recent history of this city--along with the redevelopment of the Park East. Allowing people to camp so close to a major cities downtown is pretty unique--especially right on a major body of water.

But I am hearing what you and Markitect are saying. I just like the idea of development around the Paperboard Factory--but not too much further north.
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Old May 18th, 2007, 03:04 AM   #1499
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The Oak Leaf Trail, which runs to about Hampton throuh Estabrook Park, is accessible at the terminus of the East side of the river's riverfront unpaved trail at Riverside Park. Granted, it might take a little navigation finesse and a steep climb but it does hook up. In fact, it might even link up to it immeaditely North of Locust, come to think of it.
another thing that I like about the trail--plenty of new places to discover. Taking the paved route from the northern "main route"--I came across plenty of unmarked trails to take my mountain bike through. Some are actually pretty challenging.

I will give you all that. There have been times where I actually was like " Where the hell am I? Am I still in Milwaukee" when you go off the marked trails. Its weird because you can't hear any cars or city noises. Its like I am in the wilderness. I ride a bit longer and suddenly I am in downtown Tosa. I have to recommend riding this trail to anyone who hasnt been on it.
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Old May 18th, 2007, 04:12 AM   #1500
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Originally Posted by -BlueWarning
but the problem I have is that nobody can access most of the River. I doubt it ever could be done--but I think it would be cool to have the Riverwalk (how you described, with "natural" trails) extend at least as far as Capitol Dr--perhaps as far as Estabrook. Maybe some more staircases to connect you to the city & Oak Leaf Trail, a couple pedestrian bridges to make crossing the river easier, some kayak landings, and some other parkland amenities.
Improving access to the river with more trails, ramps, staircases is a significant part of the proposal. Some it these improvements are going on already on land that has previously been acquired for conservation.

Again, take a look at the materials available on the MWRG website. It explains the goals and vision for the river corridor proposal. It discusses conservation efforts, the health of the river valley's ecosystem, recreational/cultural/historical/educational opportunities, zoning standards for future development, and so on.
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