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Old June 24th, 2007, 07:08 AM   #1781
NLouisianaJay
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Milwaukee does not need to spend money on another runway. They have spent enough money on modifying the airport. Were not Ohare here; Mitchells runway fits perfectly for the traffic handled now and what will come of it in the future.
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Old June 24th, 2007, 07:49 AM   #1782
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NLouisianaJay View Post
Milwaukee does not need to spend money on another runway. They have spent enough money on modifying the airport. Were not Ohare here; Mitchells runway fits perfectly for the traffic handled now and what will come of it in the future.
The future, the future,
that is what plannig is for and I cant think that there no way that the airport is good as is forever, give this land to the airport,
why would a post office need that much land anyway?
The airport doesnt need to develop it right away,
look at ohare and how its hampered, it has no room to grow right now
without destroying homes

lets not allow mitchell to have limitations, it can and should grow,
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Old June 24th, 2007, 09:33 AM   #1783
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Originally Posted by NLouisianaJay View Post
Milwaukee does not need to spend money on another runway. They have spent enough money on modifying the airport. Were not Ohare here; Mitchells runway fits perfectly for the traffic handled now and what will come of it in the future.
Did you turn conservative overnight or something?

How can Mitchell lure more airlines to its site if there's not enough done to promote and continue to expand the airport? I recall you once saying we need high quality airlines to consider Milwaukee (the 3rd Chicago airport) for its destinations. Or did AirTran decide to tell you to promote limiting our airport so they could get a monopoly in the near future?

Point of the matter is Mitchell is still in need of continued expansion, and the post office might just block it. How can we get another terminal and another runway with a big post office building plopped down smack in the middle of the plans?

Our future partially depends on how well our airport does. I'd hope Milwaukee area leaders would realize that and not block any expansions.
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Old June 24th, 2007, 05:31 PM   #1784
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There are a few HUGE vacant pieces of land within the core of the city. One notable example I have in my head is at 30th and Capitol. I don't know what used to be there, but it's a massive parcel.
Or, hell, why don't they just take over Timmerman? Who uses that field anyway?
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Old June 24th, 2007, 06:23 PM   #1785
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Point of the matter is Mitchell is still in need of continued expansion, and the post office might just block it. How can we get another terminal and another runway with a big post office building plopped down smack in the middle of the plans?
There is no way that anyone in charge would let the post office get built in a location that would hurt the future expansion of Mitchell. That doesn't mean that it wouldn't be possible for both to be done.

The 440th is nowhere near the terminal, so anything being built there certainly would not inhibit expansion of the terminal. In fact, if a new post office were built nearby, the current post office location at the airport could be consolidated at the new one, which would free up more land closer to the terminal.

If you look at the airport's expansion plans, only a small portion of the 440th would be needed for the new runway. Now, I'm not sure how close buildings could be built to a runway, but you can definitely fit both.

http://www.mitchellairport.com/masterplan.html
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Old June 25th, 2007, 03:50 AM   #1786
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MilwaukeeMark, you have to post you new photo of the bridge at Lakeshore State Park on here, please. It's amazing and I'm sure everyone here would love to see it.
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Old June 25th, 2007, 04:03 AM   #1787
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brewcityfan View Post
Did you turn conservative overnight or something?

How can Mitchell lure more airlines to its site if there's not enough done to promote and continue to expand the airport? I recall you once saying we need high quality airlines to consider Milwaukee (the 3rd Chicago airport) for its destinations. Or did AirTran decide to tell you to promote limiting our airport so they could get a monopoly in the near future?

Point of the matter is Mitchell is still in need of continued expansion, and the post office might just block it. How can we get another terminal and another runway with a big post office building plopped down smack in the middle of the plans?

Our future partially depends on how well our airport does. I'd hope Milwaukee area leaders would realize that and not block any expansions.
LOL, yeah I am always up in arms when it comes to development or news on Mitchell airport lately. A little side-note: I do not like when you say mitchell is chicago's 3rd airport!!!! And also, a personal attack was not necessary...if you want to become a city leader, it is important to interpret other peoples opinions. I guess I see your point of progressiveness. The only way airlines will be lured is if the airport gets more passengers, not building a new multi-million dollar runway. I mean this is not a case of "if we build it, they will come". (Airtran has absolutely nothing to do with my opinions) I agree with the majority on the location of the post office. There are alot more innovative locations for the building to be constructed. What ever happened to the menomonie valley rumor?
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Old June 25th, 2007, 03:55 PM   #1788
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajknee View Post
There are a few HUGE vacant pieces of land within the core of the city. One notable example I have in my head is at 30th and Capitol. I don't know what used to be there, but it's a massive parcel.
Or, hell, why don't they just take over Timmerman? Who uses that field anyway?
That idea is flawed in so many ways.

A: An airport in the core of the city? wtf? The Tower Automotive grounds is probably the largest industrial campus in the city-you think it should be razed for an airport?

B:If you could fit even a quarter of a runway long enough for a modern commercial airliner there, I'll eat my pants.
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Old June 25th, 2007, 04:01 PM   #1789
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No, I was talking about places to put the Post Office.
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Old June 25th, 2007, 04:52 PM   #1790
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NLouisianaJay> Some airlines actually have the impact of inducing demand, such as Southwest. If Milwaukee could recruit Southwest to Mitchell our passenger counts would go up.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Southwest_effect So a second runway could be a way to attract an airline like Southwest.
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Old June 25th, 2007, 06:14 PM   #1791
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NLouisianaJay View Post
LOL, yeah I am always up in arms when it comes to development or news on Mitchell airport lately. A little side-note: I do not like when you say mitchell is chicago's 3rd airport!!!! And also, a personal attack was not necessary...if you want to become a city leader, it is important to interpret other peoples opinions. I guess I see your point of progressiveness. The only way airlines will be lured is if the airport gets more passengers, not building a new multi-million dollar runway. I mean this is not a case of "if we build it, they will come". (Airtran has absolutely nothing to do with my opinions) I agree with the majority on the location of the post office. There are alot more innovative locations for the building to be constructed. What ever happened to the menomonie valley rumor?
I don't know why you don't like Mitchell known as Chicago's 3rd Airport....it is? That's a good thing, a VERY good thing. Not to induce the illustrious AirTran name again - but that's one of the reasons why they want Midwest - is to gain access to more Chicagoland consumers. Unfortunately, in the case of Mitchell it is truly dominated right now by only one airline, whether that name stays Midwest or changes to AirTran. How competition can flourish there in the future raises my eyebrow. Two and I actually agree on something, and I'm going to take special notes on that! Additional runways and better, additional terminals to add more slots will only increase the desirability of airlines wanting to come here.

That's where the post office might just hamper the moment. I hope MilwaukeeD is right and our leaders don't believe it's a good idea.
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Old June 25th, 2007, 06:49 PM   #1792
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eriol View Post
I sure hope it doesn't take another five years before they can blow up that monstrosity.
I love that monstrosity! Where else will you see such a beauitiful rendition of 1960s futuristic architecture?

I say windex the windows and spray the building down with amonnia and then let it stand in glory...
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Old June 25th, 2007, 07:37 PM   #1793
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brew> Well I think the best of both world would be if we could expand the terminal (I believe adding an international terminal might be interesting), add the runway, recruit Southwest, and move the post office there.
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Old June 25th, 2007, 07:42 PM   #1794
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajknee View Post
There are a few HUGE vacant pieces of land within the core of the city. One notable example I have in my head is at 30th and Capitol. I don't know what used to be there, but it's a massive parcel.
Or, hell, why don't they just take over Timmerman? Who uses that field anyway?
Timmerman is a major and very popular general aviation airport. If you fly your own airplane into town, perhaps even up to the 'corporate' size of aircraft, you'll likely want to tie it down there. Also, Timmerman being where it is helps keeps the little Cessnas and the commercial heavies that normally use MKE apart, to the benefit of both.

An example, WTMJ radio's airborne traffic reporter flies out of Timmerman.

Mike
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Old June 26th, 2007, 07:42 PM   #1795
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Keeping in mind the event a year or two back when a jet skidded off the runway at Chicago Midway into a street and killed a child, the runways at Mitchell are also not FAA regulation buffered. Not as bad as Midway, but they still are required to add something.

This from the Journal:

Runway rules shaping expansion; Mitchell Airport must create space
Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, The, Jun 8, 2006 by LARRY SANDLER
Before Mitchell International Airport can proceed with expansion plans, federal officials will insist on steps to ensure that airliners don't skid off runways into traffic on nearby streets, Airport Director C. Barry Bateman said Thursday.

That could mean anything from shortening or moving runways to building bridges over E. Layton, E. College and S. Howell avenues and nearby railroad tracks, Bateman said.

When the airport does expand, it should build more concourses and more gates as part of its existing terminal, rather than add a second terminal, consultants recommended. The consultants also said building a new east-west runway through the space now occupied by the U.S. Air Force Reserve's 440th Airlift Wing would be more cost effective than expanding an existing north-south runway.

Also Thursday, a County Board committee called for a study on selling or leasing Mitchell and Timmerman airports to private operators, setting up a potential rivalry with a proposal for the state Legislative Council to conduct a simultaneous study on how Mitchell should be run.

Supervisor Richard D. Nyklewicz Jr. has said the county study would explore whether privatizing the airports could bring in money to help ease the county's financial problems. He has contrasted it with a failed bill by state Rep. Jeff Stone (R-Greendale) to hand the county-owned airport over to a regional airport authority.

Stone asked the Legislative Council to study the issues involved in running the airport. The council will decide later this month whether to pursue that study, said Terry Anderson, the council's director.

The airport is designing a master plan that will call for building a new runway and expanding the terminal from 42 gates to 70 over the next 20 years. When consulting firm Parsons Brinckerhoff finishes the plan, possibly later this year, it will require both County Board and Federal Aviation Administration approval, Bateman told the board's Transportation, Public Works and Transit Committee.

But Bateman said the FAA has warned airports that it won't approve expansion plans unless they include steps to avoid the kind of crash that happened at Chicago's Midway Airport in December. In that accident, a Southwest Airlines plane slid off the end of a runway, ran through a fence and plowed into a busy street, killing a 6-year-old boy in a car and injuring 10 other people.

New safety requirements

The week before that crash, President Bush signed a law requiring airports by 2015 to either leave a 1,000-foot buffer zone at the end of each runway or install beds of crushed concrete to slow down planes that overshoot runways. Mitchell and Midway are among 284 commercial airports nationwide that have done neither, according to the FAA.

Bateman said airport officials are considering a variety of options to deal with that issue, including bridges over the streets. It's too early to say which option would work best, how much it would cost or how long it would take, he said.

For the terminal expansion, consultant Steve Ryan said his firm had ruled out options that would expand the current terminal upward and double-deck the roadway in front; build a second terminal near the current terminal; or build more distantly separated terminals, linked by a rail line, he said.

Instead, the consulting firm recommended the least expensive option, costing about $640 million, Ryan said. As demand grows, the terminal would expand to the southwest, adding a new Concourse F and Concourse G on space now occupied by a parking lot. The parking garage and remote lot also would be expanded.

As for two runway expansion concepts that have been planned since 1992, Ryan said extending the north-south runway would cost $25 million but save airlines less than $1 million a year in reduced delays, falling short of an FAA standard for runways to pay for themselves within 20 years. A new east-west runway would save more than $13 million a year, justifying its $242 million cost in about 18 years, he said.

In addition to running through the air base, which the 440th plans to abandon, the new runway would extend over College and Howell avenues and cut through the New Coeln neighborhood, northwest of the intersection of those streets.

Ryan said air traffic forecasts suggest the new runway will be needed between 2016 and 2025. Planning and building a new runway can take up to 10 years but the airlines, which pay for all airport improvements aren't financially healthy enough to consider it, Bateman said. The issue is likely to arise during airline lease talks in 2010, he said.

42

Number of gates at Mitchell International Airport now

70

Number of gates after expansion

$640 million

Cost of terminal expansion

$242 million

Cost of new east-west runway

Copyright 2006, Journal Sentinel Inc. All rights reserved. (Note: This notice does not apply to those news items already copyrighted and received through wire services or other media.)

Copyright 2006 Journal Sentinel Inc. Note: This notice does not apply to those news items already copyrighted and received through wire services or other media
Provided by ProQuest Information and Learning Company. All rights Reserved
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Old June 26th, 2007, 09:48 PM   #1796
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Great read on why not to TIF up the Park East:
http://www.biztimes.com/news/2007/6/...ns-temperature
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Old June 27th, 2007, 02:50 AM   #1797
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Quote:
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No, I was talking about places to put the Post Office.

Ha. Talk about poor context.
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Old June 27th, 2007, 03:05 AM   #1798
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I don't know why you don't like Mitchell known as Chicago's 3rd Airport....it is? That's a good thing, a VERY good thing. Not to induce the illustrious AirTran name again - but that's one of the reasons why they want Midwest - is to gain access to more Chicagoland consumers.
How many "Chicagoland" consumers use the Milwaukee airport? It seems to be too far for most people in Chicagoland, and the Chicago airports both have rail connections.
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Old June 27th, 2007, 06:36 AM   #1799
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Quote:
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How many "Chicagoland" consumers use the Milwaukee airport? It seems to be too far for most people in Chicagoland, and the Chicago airports both have rail connections.
I agree, the only time I ever hear people using different airports is Milwaukeens at Ohare. Im sure there are a few exceptions from people not wanting to deal with the ohare hassle, but really 3rd airport?
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Old June 27th, 2007, 07:01 AM   #1800
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How many "Chicagoland" consumers use the Milwaukee airport? It seems to be too far for most people in Chicagoland, and the Chicago airports both have rail connections.
Milwaukee's airport is not too far away from the northern parts of Chicagoland, which is precisely the market the airport has been actively marketing to for the past several years..even actually using the phrase "Chicago's Third Airport" in its promotions. It's really not that far of a drive for that market. Nor is it really that far of a train ride for that market, since our airport does have rail connections as well (to Union Station in Downtown Chicago and also to Glenview in the northern part of Chicagoland).
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