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Old June 27th, 2007, 07:53 AM   #1801
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Originally Posted by Markitect View Post
Milwaukee's airport is not too far away from the northern parts of Chicagoland, which is precisely the market the airport has been actively marketing to for the past several years..even actually using the phrase "Chicago's Third Airport" in its promotions. It's really not that far of a drive for that market. Nor is it really that far of a train ride for that market, since our airport does have rail connections as well (to Union Station in Downtown Chicago and also to Glenview in the northern part of Chicagoland).
For once I can actually applaud at Markitect. Thank you!

I can see the Minneapolis anti-cheese asking the question, but for NLouisianaJay to continue his doubts is a bit ridiculous. It's been constantly in Milwaukee news about how Mitchell is getting an increasing Illinois traveler base. I mean what's there to debate about it? Even Chicagoans on SSC proudly say Mitchell is their 3rd airport!

UGH
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Old June 27th, 2007, 08:32 AM   #1802
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Yep, that's the angle. I know that's your pic and it is a beaut. Some of your pano's that you've posted lately are from this angle. Like the one where you took a night and day pic from on the roof of that, I think it's a hotel?

I don't remember who or where I got this pic, for all I know it's one of your's, but this is the pic that I had in mind when I was talking about this angle being my favorite for viewing pics of the skyline. Too bad the UCT isn't up yet in this one though.

I was just looking through some Flickr photos when I came across these. This guy took some amazing shots of the skyline from on top of the Diamon Tower just like this pic I posted, but his are alot better. Check them out!

http://www.flickr.com/photos/blakesa...7600467551588/
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Old June 27th, 2007, 09:30 AM   #1803
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Originally Posted by The anti-cheesehead View Post
How many "Chicagoland" consumers use the Milwaukee airport? It seems to be too far for most people in Chicagoland, and the Chicago airports both have rail connections.

Wrong my friends,coming from someone who actually lives in the area between chicago and Miltown i can say MANY people use Gen Mitch airport. In fact i hear quite often how fond people are of midwest airlines and the easy commute to Milwaukee. Working in Glenco i take RT.41 to work and back seeing about 2 or 3 billboards along the way for the Mil airport.

Everyone knows how much a hassle Ohare is and yes many people still use it flying but anyone 30mins plus to Ohare would and gladly does commute north for certain flights when able. Take a look at the plates left on cars in the parking area, tells the whole story.
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Old June 27th, 2007, 05:57 PM   #1804
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Wrong my friends,coming from someone who actually lives in the area between chicago and Miltown i can say MANY people use Gen Mitch airport. In fact i hear quite often how fond people are of midwest airlines and the easy commute to Milwaukee. Working in Glenco i take RT.41 to work and back seeing about 2 or 3 billboards along the way for the Mil airport.

Everyone knows how much a hassle Ohare is and yes many people still use it flying but anyone 30mins plus to Ohare would and gladly does commute north for certain flights when able. Take a look at the plates left on cars in the parking area, tells the whole story.
I was a bit surprised to see ads for Midwest on Rt 41 a few weeks back. I didn't know they did ads in northern Illinois.

But hey, this Illinois resident knows what he's talking about!
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Old June 27th, 2007, 06:27 PM   #1805
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Great read on why not to TIF up the Park East:
http://www.biztimes.com/news/2007/6/...ns-temperature
I thought this was a decent report overall.... However, the timeline they gave for the park east to fill out was waaaayyyyy longer then I had ever thought it would be. Was this something known to everyone when the decision was made for the freeway to be torn down? They defend it saying that 5 projects are going on in and around the park east but only ONE of those projects (flatiron) is actually park of the park east... the rest are all in areas surrounding.

The whole park east area is really starting to get on my nerves... can they at least plant some grass and trees if its going to be that long? Right now the open land is an ugly scar on our downtown.
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Old June 27th, 2007, 06:32 PM   #1806
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I thought this was a decent report overall.... However, the timeline they gave for the park east to fill out was waaaayyyyy longer then I had ever thought it would be. Was this something known to everyone when the decision was made for the freeway to be torn down? They defend it saying that 5 projects are going on in and around the park east but only ONE of those projects (flatiron) is actually park of the park east... the rest are all in areas surrounding.

The whole park east area is really starting to get on my nerves... can they at least plant some grass and trees if its going to be that long? Right now the open land is an ugly scar on our downtown.
You should write a letter to our County Executive asking him to plant some grass and trees in the meantime.
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Old June 27th, 2007, 06:39 PM   #1807
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You should write a letter to our County Executive asking him to plant some grass and trees in the meantime.
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Old June 27th, 2007, 06:46 PM   #1808
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The whole park east area is really starting to get on my nerves... can they at least plant some grass and trees if its going to be that long? Right now the open land is an ugly scar on our downtown.
That's my point exactly (without the tree comment). However when I say it I get trashed....

How hideous does that look to see dirt and ground for about a mile along one street downtown! It's very unimpressive and unattractive to say the least. But in this case Milwaukee wants Taj Mahals to be plopped down there when right now Milwaukee isn't that well known to be getting developers like that. Perhaps we should contact Mandel....
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Old June 27th, 2007, 07:13 PM   #1809
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Originally Posted by brewcityfan View Post
For once I can actually applaud at Markitect. Thank you!

I can see the Minneapolis anti-cheese asking the question, but for NLouisianaJay to continue his doubts is a bit ridiculous. It's been constantly in Milwaukee news about how Mitchell is getting an increasing Illinois traveler base. I mean what's there to debate about it? Even Chicagoans on SSC proudly say Mitchell is their 3rd airport!

UGH
Well, I didn't know there was a train.

I guess what I was getting at is what is the criteria used to consider it Chicago's "third airport".

I can see people from northern Illinois using it, but is it viable for someone who is traveling to Chicago? Why would they use Mitchell? Are O'Hare and Midway really that much of a hassle that someone would fly somewhere else that's over an hour away? It takes about 45 minutes on the blue line from O'Hare to get to downtown, if I remember right. Not to mention that if you get stuck or delayed somewhere and you need to get to back Chicago, it's a hell of a lot easier to get back to O'Hare from anywhere at any time of day compared to Mitchell.

It just seems that it would need to be closer, or connected by high speed rail, and have more frequent service, to be a real option for travelers coming in or out of Chicago. Look at NYC, which truly has 3 airports. Flying into Newark to go to NYC is not the same as flying into Milwaukee to go to Chicago.
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Old June 27th, 2007, 07:27 PM   #1810
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It looks no worse today than when that ugly freeway was cutting across the city. In fact it is better today because you can see across the city.

"However, the timeline they gave for the park east to fill out was waaaayyyyy longer then I had ever thought it would be."

Really did you think 60+ acres of lands was going to be built in a couple of years? What we'll see here is one or two projects get in the ground each year once Mandel gets the North End further along (because this one is catalytic). Though I will say the County has done its best to slow the PE down, unlike the city who's land is currently being developed. But now it is up to the market to make things happen.

Brew> No people jumped on you because you blindly supported TIF projects simply so something anything would be built even if it was a strip mall with McDonalds and Krispy Kreme. As both DCD and now the independent firm has now stated this would be a bad move and hurt other business, further it wouldn't be catalytic so it shouldn't happen. Gee sound familiar?
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Old June 27th, 2007, 07:27 PM   #1811
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One thing they could do with the Park East area is build a freeway spur...
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Old June 27th, 2007, 07:34 PM   #1812
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doomer> nice
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Old June 27th, 2007, 07:42 PM   #1813
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldwake View Post
However, the timeline they gave for the park east to fill out was waaaayyyyy longer then I had ever thought it would be. Was this something known to everyone when the decision was made for the freeway to be torn down?
Yes, it was was known that full build-out would take place over a span of several years since before the freeway spur was demolished.

Quote:
They defend it saying that 5 projects are going on in and around the park east but only ONE of those projects (flatiron) is actually park of the park east... the rest are all in areas surrounding.
The Park East corridor redevelopment is defined as not only the blocks on which the freeway once stood, but also some of the adjacent blocks on either side that were underutilized. That is why projects such as the North End, Manpower, etc. are discussed in connection with Park East.
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Old June 27th, 2007, 07:58 PM   #1814
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Originally Posted by The anti-cheesehead View Post
Well, I didn't know there was a train.

I guess what I was getting at is what is the criteria used to consider it Chicago's "third airport".

I can see people from northern Illinois using it, but is it viable for someone who is traveling to Chicago? Why would they use Mitchell? Are O'Hare and Midway really that much of a hassle that someone would fly somewhere else that's over an hour away? It takes about 45 minutes on the blue line from O'Hare to get to downtown, if I remember right. Not to mention that if you get stuck or delayed somewhere and you need to get to back Chicago, it's a hell of a lot easier to get back to O'Hare from anywhere at any time of day compared to Mitchell.

It just seems that it would need to be closer, or connected by high speed rail, and have more frequent service, to be a real option for travelers coming in or out of Chicago. Look at NYC, which truly has 3 airports. Flying into Newark to go to NYC is not the same as flying into Milwaukee to go to Chicago.
Well, once again, I don't see how this point can be debated. It's already been shown that people from Northern Illinois (thus northern Chicagoland) use Mitchell as well as O'Hare for their flights. Oddly enough, the possibility could be because of Midwest Airlines being hubbed in Milwaukee and having no presence in the other two Chicagoland airports. Once again, AirTran was partly interested in Midwest BECAUSE of the increasing Chicagoland presence at Mitchell. AirTran feels they can draw even more from Chicagoland to Mitchell since they feel their price is right.

I mean, congrats to NYC or other major cities for having 3 closer together. In Chicago's instance, however, many there refer to Milwaukee's Mitchell as the 3rd airport. Whoopie-do. Don't get the undies in a bundle please.
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Old June 27th, 2007, 08:07 PM   #1815
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Well, once again, I don't see how this point can be debated. It's already been shown that people from Northern Illinois (thus northern Chicagoland) use Mitchell as well as O'Hare for their flights.
How many, how often. That's what I'm getting at. Look at my previous example, Newark, NJ. There is a high % of people using that airport specifically because of NYC. It's not like everyone flying into Newark is going to Newark. Can you say the same thing about Mitchell and Chicago? I'd guess not, I'd guess that the majority of the passenger traffic at Mitchell is people coming or going from Milwaukee, not Chicago. I don't have my undies in a bunch, I was just wondering what makes Mitchell Chicago's 3rd airport? Because people say so, or because enough Chicago people use it that it would be considered an airport that serves Chicago?
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Old June 27th, 2007, 08:51 PM   #1816
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How many, how often. That's what I'm getting at. Look at my previous example, Newark, NJ. There is a high % of people using that airport specifically because of NYC. It's not like everyone flying into Newark is going to Newark. Can you say the same thing about Mitchell and Chicago? I'd guess not, I'd guess that the majority of the passenger traffic at Mitchell is people coming or going from Milwaukee, not Chicago. I don't have my undies in a bunch, I was just wondering what makes Mitchell Chicago's 3rd airport? Because people say so, or because enough Chicago people use it that it would be considered an airport that serves Chicago?
My response to this would be varied. While you are correct in assuming the majority percentage are Milwaukeeians - a percentage that is increasing comes from the Chicagoland area. So the answer to you would be both of your points: people say so, and Mitchell is increasingly becoming an airport that serves Chicagoland travelers as well as those from Milwaukee (where it's located).
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Old June 27th, 2007, 09:03 PM   #1817
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As far as distance to the airports for some areas in the Chicago Metro: Kenosha, pop. 95,240 is 32.8 miles from Mitchell International and 52.9 miles to O'Hare. Waukegan, pop. 91,396 is 46.1 miles to Mitchell International and 32.8 miles to O'Hare. Waukegan is the county seat of Lake County, IL, pop. 644,356. If you've driven from Mitchell to O'Hare, you would know that traffic-wise it would make sense to use Mitchell for these Chicago Metro residents. Many opt for Mitchell for various reasons. Travel time, ease of parking, price, efficiency, to name a few. Simply though, several hundred thousand residents of the Chicago Metro are closer to Milwaukee than O'Hare.

Last edited by tomkel; June 27th, 2007 at 09:11 PM.
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Old June 27th, 2007, 09:19 PM   #1818
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Airtran is ghetto.

Man, this is going to suck!
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Old June 27th, 2007, 09:55 PM   #1819
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I think it's just a matter of semantics. I don't see how you can say it's Chicago's 3rd airport when really, it's Milwaukee's airport that some Chicagoans happen to use. To me, it's like saying that San Diego's airport is one of LA's airports.

When I think of complimentary airports within a metro area, I'm thinking of airports like Dulles and Reagan or La Guardia, Kennedy and Newark.

I don't see Midway, O'Hare, and Mitchell having the same relationship, at least not yet.
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Old June 27th, 2007, 10:21 PM   #1820
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I think it's just a matter of semantics. I don't see how you can say it's Chicago's 3rd airport when really, it's Milwaukee's airport that some Chicagoans happen to use. To me, it's like saying that San Diego's airport is one of LA's airports.

When I think of complimentary airports within a metro area, I'm thinking of airports like Dulles and Reagan or La Guardia, Kennedy and Newark.

I don't see Midway, O'Hare, and Mitchell having the same relationship, at least not yet.

"Chicago's Third Airport"

"Avoid the ORDeal...fly MKE"

"Sick of O'Hare...fly MKE" (printed on promotional air sickness bags)

It's a marketing campaign, an advertising slogan, not any type of actual airport traffic ranking or anything like that. It targets people who live in Northern Illinois/northern Chicagoland to fly out of Mitchell as an alternative of flying out of O'Hare or Midway, which can be busier, more expensive, more of a hassle, less convenient. It's a promotional effort that has worked out quite well, as many Northern Chicagolanders do indeed come here to fly out of Mitchell.

The point of people coming in from other parts of the US using Mitchell as a gateway to Chicago (versus using other airports in the Chicago area) is kind of moot, since that's not the segment of air traveling public the promotion is aimed at (though technically, it is entirely possible for someone to do that if they really wanted to).
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