daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Railways

Railways (Inter)national commuter and freight trains



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old January 7th, 2008, 02:24 AM   #181
Republica
BUND
 
Republica's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 4,036
Likes (Received): 3

Any opportunity to moan and the media takes it. Our trains arent the best, but they arent bad at all. We need continued investment that was lacking under thatcher to continue.
__________________
Rant
Republica no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old January 9th, 2008, 06:50 PM   #182
Salif
Registered User
 
Salif's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 5,811
Likes (Received): 337

or up to 470 metres long double units as in France

Which lines do these operate on?

The longest TGV double unit is about 400 metres long I thought.
Salif no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 9th, 2008, 08:11 PM   #183
AR1182
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,814
Likes (Received): 1780

Quote:
Originally Posted by Salif View Post
or up to 470 metres long double units as in France

Which lines do these operate on?

The longest TGV double unit is about 400 metres long I thought.
The TGV-A sets have two more cars than all TGVs, each unit being almost 238 metres long, and they too operate as double units regularly. Most TGV stops in western and southwestern France and even stations in other regions have had their platforms lengthened to be served by these double-units.
AR1182 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old January 11th, 2008, 07:33 PM   #184
UrbanBen
the transit nazi
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Seattle
Posts: 966
Likes (Received): 12

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zibou View Post
HSL in France were build to cut off journeys' time, but also in order to increase the availability of regular (or "classic") railways for regional train service (Train Express Régional).
I take issue with what you say there. Two round trips were added between Strasbourg and Sarrebourg for the TGV Est, but these are expensive. The local (regional) service was cut by more than six daily round trips at the same time.
UrbanBen no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 5th, 2008, 01:48 PM   #185
dougfr69
Registered User
 
dougfr69's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: LYON
Posts: 1,315
Likes (Received): 54

FRANCE | High Speed Rail

The new AGV presented this morning.
350-360 km/h in commercial service



www.transport.alstom.com
dougfr69 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 5th, 2008, 01:53 PM   #186
pflo777
BANNED
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,456
Likes (Received): 89

is this the final design?
pflo777 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 5th, 2008, 02:00 PM   #187
Alvar Lavague
European citizen
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Paris
Posts: 1,236
Likes (Received): 124

Quote:
Alstom unveils new high-speed train

By Robert Wright, Transport Correspondent, in La Rochelle

Published: February 5 2008 11:08 | Last updated: February 5 2008 11:08

The company behind France’s flagship TGV train has taken its biggest technological leap forward in 30 years by unveiling on Tuesday a radical new design of high-speed train designed to cruise at 360kph (224mph).

The AGV – Automotrice Grand Vitesse (high-speed rail car) – will be the first French-built high-speed train to break with the train á grand vitesse (high-speed train) design pioneered on France’s first dedicated high-speed route, from Paris to Lyons, opened in 1981.

The new train, which is built by Alstom, has motors distributed on passenger coaches, rather than concentrated in power cars full of equipment at either end of the train. This system, known as distributed power, reduces the weight of the train’s heaviest vehicles and increases the space available for passengers.

The new design should enable Alstom to compete better in export markets against Siemens’ Velaro design, based on Germany’s ICE3 high-speed train, which already uses distributed power and has won recent orders in Spain and Russia.

The TGV previously won a number of export orders, with trains going to Spain for its first high-speed lines and Korea, where the train is known as KTX. Orders are pending from Morocco and Argentina.

The AGV is the world’s first train to combine distributed power with articulated carriages, where each vehicle shares a set of wheels – known as bogies – with the next. All TGVs use articulated bogies, which Alstom believes have made the trains safer and substantially reduced wear on track.

The new train’s significance for France was illustrated by the attendance of Nicolas Sarkozy, French president, at a ceremony to unveil the prototype on Tuesday at Alstom’s Bellvue test site in La Rochelle .

However, Alstom has so far won only one order for the new train – a batch of 25 units from NTV, a private Italian operator hoping to start competing against state-owned Trenitalia. There is no immediate prospect of orders from SNCF, the French state-owned train operator that developed the TGV alongside Alstom. SNCF wishes to continue ordering double-deck TGV Duplex trains based on existing technology. Because of the space needed under floors for equipment, it would be impossible to design a double-deck AGV at present.

Philippe Mellier, president of Alstom’s transport division, said Alstom would rapidly be able to demonstrate the performance, convenience, comfort and environmental and cost advantages of the AGV with the trains destined for NTV.

Building of the NTV trains will start in the middle of this year, with delivery planned for 2010 onwards.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/819cc4ee-d...0779fd2ac.html

Last edited by Alvar Lavague; February 5th, 2008 at 03:04 PM.
Alvar Lavague no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 5th, 2008, 02:05 PM   #188
Avientu
Registered User
 
Avientu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Eixample dret, Barcelona
Posts: 253
Likes (Received): 39

Is that the maximum speed in commercial service or what the tracks would actually allow?
__________________

Avientu no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 5th, 2008, 02:08 PM   #189
dougfr69
Registered User
 
dougfr69's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: LYON
Posts: 1,315
Likes (Received): 54

The commercial speed is 350 km/h with acceleration to 360
dougfr69 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 5th, 2008, 02:53 PM   #190
Tri-ring
Expert
 
Tri-ring's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 459
Likes (Received): 7

I see Alstom is finally coming to their senses dropping the locomotive drive design and adopting the distributed power system like other HSRs.
The locomotive drive was already to it's potential limits and saw increasing disadvantages with more carts to pull on a single train set limiting the speed and high axis load on the locomotive cart damaging the rails.
The down size is the minimum number of carts on a single train set will become larger to obtain 360Km/h since power is combined from each cart.
__________________
banned for denial of war crimes in world war 2.

Last edited by Tri-ring; February 5th, 2008 at 03:27 PM. Reason: clarification
Tri-ring no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 5th, 2008, 02:59 PM   #191
Alexriga
BANNED
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 2,089
Likes (Received): 183

Nice train We will wait for new record to kick maglev's ass!
Alexriga no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 5th, 2008, 03:14 PM   #192
dougfr69
Registered User
 
dougfr69's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: LYON
Posts: 1,315
Likes (Received): 54

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tri-ring View Post
I see Alstom is finally coming to their senses dropping the locomotive drive design and adopting the distributed power system like other HSRs.
The locomotive drive was already to it's potential limits and saw increasing disadvantages with more carts to pull on a single train set limiting the speed and high axis load on the locomotive cart damaging the rails.
The down size is the minimum amount of carts on a single train set will become larger to obtain 360Km/h since power is combined from each cart.
yes but Alstom know this since a long time but the TGV is a precedent generation of high speed train (1980's) and the new Eurostar, Duplex and thalys TGV build on this technology.
Moreover TGV is always in the catalog of Alstom
dougfr69 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 5th, 2008, 03:17 PM   #193
Tri-ring
Expert
 
Tri-ring's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 459
Likes (Received): 7

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alexriga View Post
Nice train We will wait for new record to kick maglev's ass!
No way will it come close to 580Km/h since distributed power system has an inherit limit, smaller motors have lower maximum power output ceilings.
The advantage with distributed power system is less torque is lost through wheel/rail connection creating faster acceleration.
The locomotive style TGV took 20km to reach top speed while the latest Shinkansen N700 series takes less than 13 Km.
__________________
banned for denial of war crimes in world war 2.
Tri-ring no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 5th, 2008, 03:20 PM   #194
Tri-ring
Expert
 
Tri-ring's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 459
Likes (Received): 7

Quote:
Originally Posted by dougfr69 View Post
yes but Alstom know this since a long time but the TGV is a precedent generation of high speed train (1980's) and the new Eurostar, Duplex and thalys TGV build on this technology.
Moreover TGV is always in the catalog of Alstom
Ah, the Shinkansen system had adopted the distributed power system from the very start with it's launch in 1964.
__________________
banned for denial of war crimes in world war 2.
Tri-ring no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 5th, 2008, 03:39 PM   #195
dougfr69
Registered User
 
dougfr69's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: LYON
Posts: 1,315
Likes (Received): 54

yes but for 220-250km/h. The fist serie of Shinkansen to approch 300km/h is the serie 300 in end of 1980's.
dougfr69 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 5th, 2008, 04:06 PM   #196
Tri-ring
Expert
 
Tri-ring's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 459
Likes (Received): 7

Quote:
Originally Posted by dougfr69 View Post
yes but for 220-250km/h. The fist serie of Shinkansen to approch 300km/h is the serie 300 in end of 1980's.
In which what does it have to do with what? (except maybe with PRIDE?)
The reality was the Japanese engineers without access with the latest metallurgy technology did not think they were able to create a motor strong enough to reach their target speed so they took a different approach placing a motor in each cart thus creating the distributed power system.
The French engineers on the otherhand with advancement made during the 20 odd years were able to acquire newly developed material strong enough to go with the conventional locomotive approach, thus creating the TGV.
Japan really did not feel the need to innovate the system until the TGV came into service thus it took time to counter the challenge with the 300 series in the end of the 80's, after that it was tic vs tac.
__________________
banned for denial of war crimes in world war 2.
Tri-ring no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 5th, 2008, 04:43 PM   #197
dougfr69
Registered User
 
dougfr69's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: LYON
Posts: 1,315
Likes (Received): 54

We are agree. So at the beginning of the 80s, a motrice engine was more suited to approach a 300km/h wanted by the railroad company SNCF.
variable system which corresponds to the objectives of each epoch.
And Alstom really did not feel the need to innovate the system until today.
dougfr69 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 5th, 2008, 04:46 PM   #198
elfabyanos
Dracuna Macoides
 
elfabyanos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Brighton
Posts: 1,814
Likes (Received): 5

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tri-ring View Post
No way will it come close to 580Km/h since distributed power system has an inherit limit, smaller motors have lower maximum power output ceilings.
The advantage with distributed power system is less torque is lost through wheel/rail connection creating faster acceleration.
The locomotive style TGV took 20km to reach top speed while the latest Shinkansen N700 series takes less than 13 Km.
I don't buy that. Locomotives are only a certain size too - if size is an inherent limit for one concept it's a limit for another.
elfabyanos no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 5th, 2008, 07:05 PM   #199
Wallaroo
Registered User
 
Wallaroo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 126
Likes (Received): 1

Is this the replacement for TGV? How much faster can it accelerate? Are the TGV tracks suitable for 350 km/h?
Wallaroo no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old February 5th, 2008, 07:34 PM   #200
pflo777
BANNED
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,456
Likes (Received): 89

Quote:
Originally Posted by dougfr69 View Post
We are agree. So at the beginning of the 80s, a motrice engine was more suited to approach a 300km/h wanted by the railroad company SNCF.
variable system which corresponds to the objectives of each epoch.
And Alstom really did not feel the need to innovate the system until today.

Which was actually a mistake.

The Velaro-ICE3-AVE103-CRH3 Platform is now already 8 years in service, and is very successfull.

But better late than never.
pflo777 no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
alstom, high speed train, tgv

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 02:28 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium