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Old February 5th, 2008, 08:00 PM   #201
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wallaroo View Post
Is this the replacement for TGV? How much faster can it accelerate? Are the TGV tracks suitable for 350 km/h?
LGV Est and Nord are designed for this speed mostly curvature-wise. Not sure about the rest of the network. South of Lyon is ok for 330km/h I believe. All the new lines will be built to the new standard though.
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Old February 5th, 2008, 08:09 PM   #202
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wallaroo View Post
Is this the replacement for TGV? How much faster can it accelerate? Are the TGV tracks suitable for 350 km/h?
It's the remplacent of the TGV at 1 level but not to the TGV duplex. Delivery of Duplex continue until 2010 to the SNCF in France and has just been sold in Argentina (TGV Duplex Cobra).
TGV tracks are suitable for 350 km/h on the recent lines (Since 2000) (Lyon-Marseille, Paris-Baudrecourt(Strasbourg).)And the new future Rhin-Rhône line.

Last edited by dougfr69; February 5th, 2008 at 08:18 PM.
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Old February 5th, 2008, 08:34 PM   #203
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This is also not the replacement for the old 1 level TGVs from SNCF, they haven't ordered AGV from Alstom yet. It's all in the article posted by Alvar Lavague, SNCF keeps on ordering more TGV Duplex sets.
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Old February 5th, 2008, 08:35 PM   #204
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FUGLY. Looks as if they tapped into the nightmares of a drunk Japanese shinkansen designer.
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Old February 5th, 2008, 08:40 PM   #205
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The SNCF will replace a part of its TGVs, an invitation to tender will be released this year. Alstom's AGV will compete with Shinkansen, Siemens' Velaro and Bombardier's high speed train.
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Old February 5th, 2008, 10:23 PM   #206
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Originally Posted by Tri-ring View Post
I see Alstom is finally coming to their senses dropping the locomotive drive design and adopting the distributed power system like other HSRs.
The locomotive drive was already to it's potential limits and saw increasing disadvantages with more carts to pull on a single train set limiting the speed and high axis load on the locomotive cart damaging the rails.
The down size is the minimum number of carts on a single train set will become larger to obtain 360Km/h since power is combined from each cart.
Didn't we go over this? Air resistance is hugely more important than rolling friction at those velocities. There's no reason conventional can't pass maglev - it's more stable at high speed anyway because of the physical contact reducing air vibration.
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Old February 5th, 2008, 10:26 PM   #207
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Didn't we go over this? Air resistance is hugely more important than rolling friction at those velocities. There's no reason conventional can't pass maglev - it's more stable at high speed anyway because of the physical contact reducing air vibration.
I am equally critical of maglev and don't see it being a practical technology. But, there would need to be significant advancements in the engineering of rails to permit "conventional" trains to go the speed of maglev. The recent test in France LGV-Est absolutely destroyed the track.
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Old February 5th, 2008, 10:26 PM   #208
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A video from France 2 TV news :
http://jt.france2.fr/20h/index-fr.php?jt=0&start=602
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Old February 5th, 2008, 10:56 PM   #209
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I prefer that:



or that one:




I think that it would be more fast...near 400km/h...the Velaro have the same maxim speed and it was designed few years ago...and in my opinion, the Velaro/ICE 3 looks better...
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Old February 5th, 2008, 11:37 PM   #210
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Originally Posted by dougfr69 View Post
The new AGV presented this morning.
350-360 km/h in commercial service



www.transport.alstom.com
Does Alstom even exist anymore - thought Bombardier bought them?

I dont understand why the entrance doors in TGV trains and this are so narrow. Why are they not made with broad double doors in the middle of each car?
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Old February 5th, 2008, 11:51 PM   #211
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Bombardier never bought Alstom!
The door you can see on the picture is meant for the driver. Anyway, I don't know any Intercity or high speed train with double doors in the middle of the car.
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Old February 5th, 2008, 11:58 PM   #212
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@Wallaroo
That would mean more space for the doors and less space for seats, that's not 'economical' enough. And it's not a commuter train, 1 small door per car is enough. The doors in the ICE aren't much bigger and the Shinkansen even has smaller doors, so maybe big double doors could be problematic with these high speeds.

Bombardier bought the German-Swedish-Swiss ADTranz, not Alstom.
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Old February 6th, 2008, 12:44 AM   #213
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdf11 View Post
I prefer that:



or that one:




I think that it would be more fast...near 400km/h...the Velaro have the same maxim speed and it was designed few years ago...and in my opinion, the Velaro/ICE 3 looks better...
yes but the first advantage is that the new AGV is 15 to 30 % more economic than the trains of the current generation

Last edited by dougfr69; February 6th, 2008 at 12:58 AM.
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Old February 6th, 2008, 12:51 AM   #214
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elfabyanos View Post
I don't buy that. Locomotives are only a certain size too - if size is an inherent limit for one concept it's a limit for another.
It's a simple physics fact.
The answer lies within the amount of wire wrapped within a motor.
If you use the same material, 200M wrapped around a magnetic core will always have stronger output then a motor that only has 100M.
Therefore bigger the mass, potentially you have more space to wrap wire equating to larger output.
The trick is how to balance weight with mass.

Quote:
Originally Posted by UrbanBen View Post
Didn't we go over this? Air resistance is hugely more important than rolling friction at those velocities. There's no reason conventional can't pass maglev - it's more stable at high speed anyway because of the physical contact reducing air vibration.
And I have already responded to that with a simple physics equation E=1/2ma^2, stating that air drag is converted into mass which has a big toll on maximum speed.
As for air vibration, that can be reduced dramatically with aerodynamics and magnetic conduction minimizes side flurry vibrations.
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Old February 6th, 2008, 01:14 AM   #215
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Originally Posted by Momo1435 View Post
@Wallaroo
That would mean more space for the doors and less space for seats, that's not 'economical' enough. And it's not a commuter train, 1 small door per car is enough. The doors in the ICE aren't much bigger and the Shinkansen even has smaller doors, so maybe big double doors could be problematic with these high speeds.

Bombardier bought the German-Swedish-Swiss ADTranz, not Alstom.
Of course when high speed trains stop so few times its irrelevant. It is still better IMO with a double door in the middle of the car than two small doors in each end of the car.
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Old February 6th, 2008, 01:25 AM   #216
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Take a look at this ugly mother****er!

Its actually a seperate (one way) locomotive, and its just as fast as the new AGV and ICE 3.

I wonder how fast it can go without the carriages.
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Old February 6th, 2008, 01:37 AM   #217
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Yikes, that one is hideous! What were they thinking...
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Old February 6th, 2008, 01:43 AM   #218
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xote View Post
I am equally critical of maglev and don't see it being a practical technology. But, there would need to be significant advancements in the engineering of rails to permit "conventional" trains to go the speed of maglev. The recent test in France LGV-Est absolutely destroyed the track.
I can imagine it did! I would say 430km/h, the same as maglev does on the Shanghai line, would be possible in the coming decade or two, though.
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Old February 6th, 2008, 02:01 AM   #219
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Originally Posted by Tri-ring View Post
And I have already responded to that with a simple physics equation E=1/2ma^2, stating that air drag is converted into mass which has a big toll on maximum speed.
As for air vibration, that can be reduced dramatically with aerodynamics and magnetic conduction minimizes side flurry vibrations.
While that is an equation, it's not the equation that describes air friction with the front of the train. That equation (for drag) is:



As you can see, it's second order - it scales exponentially as v increases.

Friction doesn't even increase as v increases! Forces due to friction with the trackway remain generally the same (although the normal force with the track increases linearly with v on the leading edge of the train), and therefore as velocity increases, drag becomes by far the largest component of resistance to movement.

When you're talking about 300-400kph, the limitations are systemic (yes, the rails take some damage if they're not designed for it) but mostly energy-related, and for Japan much of the resistance (hah) to making faster trains is just due to tunnel boom.
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Old February 6th, 2008, 02:04 AM   #220
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Originally Posted by Wallaroo View Post
Take a look at this ugly mother****er!

Its actually a seperate (one way) locomotive, and its just as fast as the new AGV and ICE 3.

I wonder how fast it can go without the carriages.
Isn't that the Talgo 350?
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