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Old February 7th, 2008, 07:31 AM   #241
Tri-ring
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sotavento View Post
Waht are you talking about ???

European railways were already running 200kmh trains by the time Japanese build the Tokkaido ... faster trains were in early development or in prototipe usage (one unit class 9291 was in use in 1963 and geared for 250km/h for example) ... but as soon as the 30's there were already regular fast 160kmh trains everywhere in europe (and USA) ... and by 1963 they regularly run at 200km/h
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You're mixing apples with oranges, the Shinkansen was the first true HSR for scheduled trains for commercial passengers to obtain top speed of 200Km.

What you are describing are all test vehicles not meant for scheduled passenger boarding.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_sp...heduled_trains

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_sp...ailed_vehicles
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Old February 7th, 2008, 09:56 AM   #242
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Does the AGV resemble the Shinkansen?




Last edited by japanese001; February 7th, 2008 at 10:27 AM.
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Old February 7th, 2008, 12:16 PM   #243
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tri-ring View Post
It's a simple physics fact.
The answer lies within the amount of wire wrapped within a motor.
If you use the same material, 200M wrapped around a magnetic core will always have stronger output then a motor that only has 100M.
Therefore bigger the mass, potentially you have more space to wrap wire equating to larger output.
The trick is how to balance weight with mass.
That's technically correct misguided nonsense. Yes, a bigger motor is more powerful. It also consumes more power. It also takes up more space. And no, it isn't more efficient. The most efficient motors made are absolutely tiny. You've understood one part of the electric motor process, and made incorrect assumptions based on this knowledge.

The JR 500 series has more horsepower than Eurostar, and is a shorter train. Eurostar even uses up about another half car in total on the two cars next to the locos, because there isn't enough space to fit in all the equipment for such a powerful locomotive in the space provided. But there's space under the carriage for the JR 500 to get the same amount of power and more in 16 cars.
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Old February 7th, 2008, 01:58 PM   #244
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I started another thread since it is completely off topic.
If you wish we can debate at the following thread.

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showth...4#post18250484
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Old February 7th, 2008, 05:10 PM   #245
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Yes, the fastest passenger conventional rail service in the world is TGV-Est, at 320kph. FasTECH 360 will operate in Japan at 360kph, but not for some time yet.
Additionally, the german ICE 3 has been certified for 330 Km/h, but only runs at up to 300 Km/h in Germany and 320 Km/h in France. The Spanish version is supposed to reach 350 Km/h in commercial service between Madrid and Barcelona in the not so distant future. All still below the AGV though.
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Old February 7th, 2008, 05:59 PM   #246
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this 350 vs 360 kmh vmax is only a political thing.
Those 10 kmh difference dont change anything for the passengers.

The next big step would be to give it the same performance in acceleration and decceleration as the german and japanese maglev trains have.
But thats a very very big step.

and the AVE-S103 at least is close to commercial service. The 350 kmh vmax in everyday service should be reached that year.When will the AGV reach that speed in everyday service? and on which roure?
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Old February 7th, 2008, 06:13 PM   #247
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The Talgo 350 can reach + 360 km/h quite easily if you push a bit, but obviously the top commercial speed is lower. The thing is that at those high speeds the energy used to run it doen't make it profitable compared to the benefits for the passenger.
ICE Velaro running on Spanish tracks has the world speed record at 403 km/h for a non modified train.
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Old February 8th, 2008, 04:16 AM   #248
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tri-ring View Post
You're mixing apples with oranges, the Shinkansen was the first true HSR for scheduled trains for commercial passengers to obtain top speed of 200Km.

What you are describing are all test vehicles not meant for scheduled passenger boarding.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_sp...heduled_trains

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_sp...ailed_vehicles
Not quite right ... I was refering to the Loco hauled european express trains like "Le Capitole" and such ... but 180km/h was common in europe BEFORE WW2 even started so 220km/h is not much of a feat ... the extension of the project is the true feat.
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Old February 8th, 2008, 04:48 AM   #249
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sotavento View Post
Not quite right ... I was refering to the Loco hauled european express trains like "Le Capitole" and such ... but 180km/h was common in europe BEFORE WW2 even started so 220km/h is not much of a feat ... the extension of the project is the true feat.
As I said I think what you are referring to are one time stunts and/or test vehicles. If you have any reference to what you are talking about I would be interested in seeing them since doing a google or wiki search does not have turn out any reference of a trains that had those high commercial speeds.

By the way the second link shows all of the speed records for rail noted by Wiki.
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Old February 8th, 2008, 07:58 AM   #250
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Old February 8th, 2008, 08:11 AM   #251
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avientu View Post
The Talgo 350 can reach + 360 km/h quite easily if you push a bit, but obviously the top commercial speed is lower. The thing is that at those high speeds the energy used to run it doen't make it profitable compared to the benefits for the passenger.
ICE Velaro running on Spanish tracks has the world speed record at 403 km/h for a non modified train.
I'm sure the AGV can reach much higher speeds as well, but that's not really the point. 360 Km/h is the commercial speed the AGV has been designed for and for which it will be certified. That's more than any existing train.
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Old February 8th, 2008, 12:29 PM   #252
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tri-ring View Post
As I said I think what you are referring to are one time stunts and/or test vehicles. If you have any reference to what you are talking about I would be interested in seeing them since doing a google or wiki search does not have turn out any reference of a trains that had those high commercial speeds.

By the way the second link shows all of the speed records for rail noted by Wiki.
I'm inclined to agree the Japanese were the first by a whisker - plus the use of dedicated tracks .
Shinkasen: 1964 210km/h
France: Le Capitole 200km/h 1967 http://www.lococarriage.org.uk/high_speed_rail.htm
Italy: ETR 200 ran at 160km/h from 1937, ETR 300 sped up to 200km/h in 1969. http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/ETR_250
UK - 1930s onwards Class a4 pacifics could easily pass 160km/h, if not 180km/h in regular service, Sotavento is correct in saying such speed were attainable. Indeed, Mallard that reached over 200km/h in 1938 was an un-modified production vehicle, although that's partly the reason it broke during the record run (a modification to all the vehicles later fixed the overheating problem).
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Old February 8th, 2008, 12:32 PM   #253
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Yeah, that's exactly my point: only 10 km/h more than already existing trains. A bit of a disapointment IMO.
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Old February 8th, 2008, 05:48 PM   #254
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tri-ring View Post
As I said I think what you are referring to are one time stunts and/or test vehicles. If you have any reference to what you are talking about I would be interested in seeing them since doing a google or wiki search does not have turn out any reference of a trains that had those high commercial speeds.

By the way the second link shows all of the speed records for rail noted by Wiki.
Shinkansen in 1964 run at "only" 210kmh ... it was a comon speed by that time.

Looking back the 145km/h attained in 1957 by the NARROW GAUGE Romancecar 3000 SE were more impressive (and also in japan).

But the Italians as early as 1935 had "regular" trains running at 200km/h ... ETR200 > ETR240 > ETR250 ...

The germans had the diesel SVT's and E18/E19 electric locomotives pushing trains at 180/200km/h since 1935/39 also ....

With the germans having attained 210,6km/h for the first time as early as 1903 .. .a record only broken 50 after by the french ... 331km/h in 1954
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Old February 8th, 2008, 07:54 PM   #255
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Originally Posted by dougfr69 View Post
The new AGV presented this morning.
350-360 km/h in commercial service



www.transport.alstom.com
I like it...the first thing I thought when I saw it was "Space: 1999". It also sort of looks like the old Apollo moon capsules, too. Same color scheme and collection of hatches on the side. I can see the space shuttle resemblance too. And yes, it does kind of look like a sneaker. The Nike "swoosh" was a nice touch.

What I like about it is that it looks sleek without looking bulbous like the ICE 3 or overly sweeping, like some of the Shinkansen. It is all business. I look forward to seeing it in other liveries.
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Old February 8th, 2008, 11:33 PM   #256
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pflo777 View Post
this 350 vs 360 kmh vmax is only a political thing.
Those 10 kmh difference dont change anything for the passengers.
360 km/h is a symbolic speed:
- It is 100 meters per second
- In France, classic trains run generally 160 km/h and the first TGV was designed to run at 260 km/h: AGV will add 100 km/h more.
- 360 km/h (peak speed) is necessary to run 1 000 km in 3 hours: Paris-Marseille and Paris-Toulouse (via Tours and Bordeaux).
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Old February 9th, 2008, 06:18 PM   #257
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haha it does kinda look like a nike trainer
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Old February 9th, 2008, 08:43 PM   #258
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The only thing is : this train will not be able to travel at 350 km/h on lines where 300 km/h TGV are actually running... especially on the TGV Nord and TGV Sud-Est lines, which are running to capacity.
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Old February 9th, 2008, 09:04 PM   #259
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the new AGV is simply great, would love to travel with it for one time
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Old February 9th, 2008, 09:25 PM   #260
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New AGV video

http://www.dailymotion.com/official/...ation-agv_news
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