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Old August 7th, 2008, 08:58 PM   #341
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZZ-II View Post
absolutely great train, though i like the design of the ICE3 still more
There is a big difference between Velaro (ICE is a trade mark owned by DB) and AGV: boggies are between coachs.

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Old August 8th, 2008, 10:55 AM   #342
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Now that NTV livery is very classy. The train looks a lot better there IMHO.
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Old August 8th, 2008, 12:23 PM   #343
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Momo1435 View Post
That's competition....

And the best thing about it is that the AGV prototype is only limited to 300 km/h because it's only 7 cars long and won't have enough brake power for it's maximum speed that can only be achieved when the train is 11 cars long. And until September the maximum speed during the tests will only be 200 km/h on the test ring in Velim. It still has to prove that it can actually reach 360 km/h in reality
Do you have a source for that? I don't see why it won't have the same brake force/weight ratio at various car lengths due to its distributed power design.
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Old August 8th, 2008, 02:34 PM   #344
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Momo1435 is right.
In case of a brake failure in one of the bogies, the AGV versions with less than 11 cars dont have enough brake power.
The max speed for a 7 and 8-car AGV is 300kmph, the 10-car AGV has 320kmph max and for the 11 and more car version, max speed is 360kmph.
Source: ERI
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Old August 8th, 2008, 02:52 PM   #345
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excellent thanks.
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Old August 8th, 2008, 05:00 PM   #346
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PredyGr View Post
Momo1435 is right.
In case of a brake failure in one of the bogies, the AGV versions with less than 11 cars dont have enough brake power.
The max speed for a 7 and 8-car AGV is 300kmph, the 10-car AGV has 320kmph max and for the 11 and more car version, max speed is 360kmph.
Source: ERI
Yup, that's also what I read in the French specialised press. Only, you almost give people the impression that the 7-car version is only ALLOWED to run 300 km/h. As far as I've understood it cannot go faster, because this version of the train has fewer distributed motoring units than the others. Anyway, for Italy it will do fine. Their HSLs are not designed for higher speeds.
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Old August 8th, 2008, 11:35 PM   #347
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And the Italians will even get 11-car sets, so they won't have any problem reaching the top speed on the "Direttissima".

And the source was indeed the ERI, or in my case the SRI but it's basically the same article. And it does give the brakes as the main reason for the lower speed of the 7-car train. Even if you will give it more motoring units, then the problem with the breaks still remain. Because since all the axles already have breaks you cannot increase them even when you need much more breaking power for 360 km/h. The break force/speed ratio (does that even exist?) is much more important then the brake force/weight ratio at these kind of high speeds. And you want to distribute the energy that's needed to break over as many axles as possible in order to prevent heavy wear or even breaking failure usually because of overheating.
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Old August 9th, 2008, 11:08 AM   #348
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I think the correct unit must be brake force/momentum, momentum being a combination of speed and mass. Is it (speed squared x mass)/brake force?
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Old August 10th, 2008, 03:20 AM   #349
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 33Hz View Post
Now that NTV livery is very classy. The train looks a lot better there IMHO.
Agreed. very nice, much better than the prototype livery.

Are there similar limitations due to break force on the Velaro?
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Old August 10th, 2008, 10:52 AM   #350
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Quote:
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Are there similar limitations due to break force on the Velaro?
It hasn't been an issue because there are no shorter versions of the Velaro. But they have the frictionless linear eddy current brake, making it more easy to brake with High Speeds. But on the other hand the break force with those breaks was so high it caused the problems with the flying gravel that caused the initial limitation to 250 km/h on High Speed lines with gravel track bedding.
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Old August 17th, 2008, 09:16 AM   #351
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Old August 17th, 2008, 09:25 AM   #352
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Final tests for world's fastest train


Alstom AGV train running at 200 km/h
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Old August 17th, 2008, 09:32 AM   #353
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Old August 18th, 2008, 11:20 PM   #354
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http://es.youtube.com/watch?v=NeGEgadgHqQ

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Old August 19th, 2008, 02:52 AM   #355
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Definitely classy. Really liking this design now with the red livery.
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Old August 22nd, 2008, 11:02 AM   #356
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 33Hz View Post
Definitely classy. Really liking this design now with the red livery.
I personally find the front-end treatment a little bland - it reminds me of a duck for some reason - possibly one of the cartoon characters. I think the German ICE units are much more attractive and better convey a sense of their capabilities.
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Old August 22nd, 2008, 08:46 PM   #357
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It doesn't matter if they look better, this design is much more functional since it has a better streamline.

The German ICE3 / Siemens Velaro design may be more elegant but it was already based on old design principles when the first trains were introduced. All new major High Speed Trains have this "duck" appearance, from France to Spain to Japan.
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Old August 22nd, 2008, 09:27 PM   #358
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Momo1435 View Post
It doesn't matter if they look better, this design is much more functional since it has a better streamline.

The German ICE3 / Siemens Velaro design may be more elegant but it was already based on old design principles when the first trains were introduced. All new major High Speed Trains have this "duck" appearance, from France to Spain to Japan.
I dont doubt it.

By the way, it is Daffy-Duck that I was thinking of.
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Old August 26th, 2008, 02:09 PM   #359
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Momo1435 View Post
It doesn't matter if they look better, this design is much more functional since it has a better streamline.

The German ICE3 / Siemens Velaro design may be more elegant but it was already based on old design principles when the first trains were introduced. All new major High Speed Trains have this "duck" appearance, from France to Spain to Japan.
I'm told the "duck's bill" is a particular advantage when you want to drive into tunnels at speeds close to 300 km/h. It plows through the air, minimising the air pressure shock - including on the passengers' eardrums. The alternative is to invest in funnel-shaped galleries before each tunnel.
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Old August 26th, 2008, 04:32 PM   #360
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Thats how I understand this odd design shape too.
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