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Old May 20th, 2010, 01:10 AM   #441
joseph1951
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Quote:
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Forumers are not in Italy, so I can dupe them into thinking the market in Italy is like everywhere else. Yes I am very smart..............
Dear Peloso,
It is true to say that RFI and TI are the two sides of the same coin. But the same happens in France with RFF and Sncfs , in Germany with.... etc.
Furthermore NTV is also partly owned by SCNF ..
So there will be a Paneuropean cartel .. and not a true market competition.... whatever that means.
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Old May 20th, 2010, 03:16 PM   #442
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At least in some nations (e.g. Germany and Switzerland) there is a proper railway service...
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Old May 20th, 2010, 04:19 PM   #443
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Here is a question for those who love the new AGV: why does it have to have in the front car so many small pieces that seem to be removable or able to be opened? The overall design is ugly to my eyes, but I suppose one can always attribute that to personal tastes. But the fragmented wrapping of the AGV not only makes it look cheap, it is also against the principle that, in engineering, you want to have as few moving parts as possible. Look at Japans N700 series or Siemens' Velaro for example. The contrast is like between the uni-body Macbook pro (Velaro/N700) and a cheap PC (AGV).
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Old May 20th, 2010, 04:54 PM   #444
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Originally Posted by Ariel74 View Post
Here is a question for those who love the new AGV: why does it have to have in the front car so many small pieces that seem to be removable or able to be opened? The overall design is ugly to my eyes, but I suppose one can always attribute that to personal tastes. But the fragmented wrapping of the AGV not only makes it look cheap, it is also against the principle that, in engineering, you want to have as few moving parts as possible. Look at Japans N700 series or Siemens' Velaro for example. The contrast is like between the uni-body Macbook pro (Velaro/N700) and a cheap PC (AGV).
The comparison between the unibody Macbook and a cheap laptop is interesting. Try replacing the battery in a Macbook :-) Maybe you'll understand that having some parts easily accessible behind hatches is not so bad an idea... Definitely not necessarily bad engineering.
Don't be fooled by the duct tape on the prototype pictured in this thread though.
I know that on the TGV/AGV at least on opening panel gives access to the lever that extends the automatic coupling. For some reason SNCF wants it to be possible to do this from outside of the cabin.

Ofcourse the macbook/pc comparison does still hold. The ICE was after all designed by a renowed designer. And it does look very good.
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Old May 20th, 2010, 07:24 PM   #445
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But the fragmented wrapping of the AGV not only makes it look cheap, it is also against the principle that, in engineering, you want to have as few moving parts as possible.
Huh? That's an engineering principle?
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Old May 20th, 2010, 08:03 PM   #446
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Ofcourse the macbook/pc comparison does still hold. The ICE was after all designed by a renowed designer. And it does look very good.
I don't get this comparison. Is the Mac designer a famous one? (Anyway, that doesn't mean that a product designed by a famous designer will necessarily look good and vice versa.) Or do you mean that the Agv looks bad while the Velaro looks good?...
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Old May 20th, 2010, 08:11 PM   #447
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Renowed designers usually do a pretty good job otherwise wouldn´t be renowed. I believe there must be a better way to solve the problem of the access without looking like a gym lockers room.


You know what? Actually, there is one exception... the AnsaldoBreda V250 which is a proof that Pininfarina studio is very good in car design so they should stick to it. only.

Last edited by Andres_Low; May 21st, 2010 at 02:38 AM.
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Old May 20th, 2010, 09:07 PM   #448
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I agree with you : in general terms, a renowned designer is a good one but that doesn't mean that his/her design will be necesarily better than an unknown designer's one. Not only one can be a good designer and unknown but also one has to be unknown before to be renowned.
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Old May 20th, 2010, 10:46 PM   #449
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Originally Posted by Andres_Low View Post

Renowed designers usually do a pretty good job otherwise wouldn´t be renowed. I believe there must be a better way to solve the problem of the access without looking like a gym lockers room.
That's a pretty good description of my impression of the AGV

Last edited by Ariel74; May 23rd, 2010 at 01:53 PM.
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Old May 21st, 2010, 11:41 AM   #450
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alvar Lavague View Post
I don't get this comparison. Is the Mac designer a famous one? (Anyway, that doesn't mean that a product designed by a famous designer will necessarily look good and vice versa.) Or do you mean that the Agv looks bad while the Velaro looks good?...
He is pretty famous, precisely for designing most of Apple's products. But I think the point is a Mac is designed, as opposed to most PCs that are just cobbled together without any regard for what the end result looks like. It looks to me like the AGV actually was designed like that for not just practical, but also aesthetic purposes, so I guess taste is a very subjective thing. It's definitely not my favourite in terms of looks. The original TGV, on the other hand, is a classic.

Edit: I've just looked at the pictures again, and I agree the access panels look cheap and plasticy. Pretty much like a cheap PC, so I agree with the comparison.
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Old May 26th, 2010, 10:45 PM   #451
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26 de mayo de 2010

Finito di costruire, presso lo stabilimento di La Rochelle in Francia, il primo dei 25 treni Italo.

Inizio servizio Settembre 2011.

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Old May 26th, 2010, 10:54 PM   #452
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NTV readies for Italo high speed launch


25 May 2010

ITALY: Open access high speed operator NTV confirmed on May 25 that it is on track to launch commercial services in September 2011, having reached agreement with infrastructure manager RFI for paths linking 12 stations in nine principal cities.

NTV Chairman Luca di Montezemolo announced that the first of its 25 AGV trainsets had been completed at Alstom's plant in La Rochelle on May 10. Following initial testing it is due to be delivered to Italy in October for final acceptance. The first four sets will come from France, and the first Italian-built unit is expected to roll out of the Savigliano plant near Torino in early 2011. The articulated trainsets are 200 m long and formed of 11 vehicles.

NTV expects to operate 51 trains/day from September 2010, linking Torino (Porta Susa), Milano (Porta Garibaldi and Rogoredo), Bologna (Central), Firenze (SMN), Roma (Tiburtina and Ostiense), Napoli (Centrale), Salerno (Centrale), Venezia (Santa Lucia and Mestre) and Padova (Centrale). This will amount to 12·3 million train-km per year. NTV will have its own 'Casa Italo' service centre in each station, providing information and ticket sales.

NTV CEO Giuseppe Sciarrone said the project involved 'putting a great many things together: construction and testing of the trains, the construction of the maintenance system, the marketing strategies, the setting up of the computer systems, and personnel selection and training', but added that everything was 'going ahead according to schedule' to meet the committed launch next September.

The first phase of work on NTV's main rolling stock depot at Nola Campano Interport in Campania has been completed, with the construction of eight buildings. Total cost of the dedicated fleet maintenance facility is put at €90m.

NTV has also launched a recruitment programme to find around 850 staff for the trains and service centres, of which 90% are reserved for people under 35. The company is allocating €17·5m to fund a training school, with an initial focus on drivers and maintenance engineers.
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Old May 28th, 2010, 01:24 PM   #453
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I've just noticed the curve of the body from the nose around the first bogie looks like the line of a bow wave on a boat. I wonder if this corresponds to the bow wave in the air at around it's top speed?
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Old May 28th, 2010, 01:32 PM   #454
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Quote:
Originally Posted by makita09 View Post
I've just noticed the curve of the body from the nose around the first bogie looks like the line of a bow wave on a boat. I wonder if this corresponds to the bow wave in the air at around it's top speed?
To my understanding, Alstrom decided to keep the boogies open since debris can be caught between the boogie and cover making it hard to remove.
The curvature on the front is for aesthetic purpose nothing more.
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Old May 29th, 2010, 04:41 AM   #455
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the new NTV AGV is really awesome
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Old May 29th, 2010, 04:13 PM   #456
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Originally Posted by Railfan View Post
NTV readies for Italo high speed launch

The first phase of work on NTV's main rolling stock depot at Nola Campano Interport in Campania has been completed, with the construction of eight buildings. Total cost of the dedicated fleet maintenance facility is put at €90m.

NTV has also launched a recruitment programme to find around 850 staff for the trains and service centres, of which 90% are reserved for people under 35. The company is allocating €17·5m to fund a training school, with an initial focus on drivers and maintenance engineers.[/SIZE]
The manteinance is not included in the purchase contract? good luck guys
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Old May 29th, 2010, 07:53 PM   #457
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The manteinance is not included in the purchase contract? good luck guys
Yes by 30 years
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Old May 30th, 2010, 09:11 PM   #458
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You might give a monkey a golden ring,
But it will remain to be an ugly thing.

Or,

You can putt lipstick on a pig,
Tis still pig.
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Old May 30th, 2010, 09:18 PM   #459
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it haulers muscle
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Old May 31st, 2010, 03:45 AM   #460
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