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Old July 21st, 2012, 04:59 AM   #561
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from http://www.fastcoexist.com/1680169/w...d-rail-network

"Watch An Actual Functioning High Speed Rail Network
These videos, made with data from France’s rail network, show what a country that relies on and invests in passenger rail looks like."






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Old August 21st, 2012, 11:29 AM   #562
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Am I the only person surprised that Francois Hollande has not yet announced a new LGV line to begin construction during his term? I've been expecting announcement of a new line, not only as a jobs programme, but to break with the plans of the previous administration. For example, I would not be surprised to see Hollande drop the Poitiers - Limoges idea in favour of Paris - Orleans - Limoges.
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Old August 23rd, 2012, 08:06 PM   #563
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Old August 23rd, 2012, 10:22 PM   #564
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcarling View Post
Am I the only person surprised that Francois Hollande has not yet announced a new LGV line to begin construction during his term? I've been expecting announcement of a new line, not only as a jobs programme, but to break with the plans of the previous administration. For example, I would not be surprised to see Hollande drop the Poitiers - Limoges idea in favour of Paris - Orleans - Limoges.
I´m not surprised at all. Especially when you know they´ve just opened a new HSL (Rhin-Rhône), three more are under construction (Baudrecourt-Strasbourg on the HSL Est-Européenne, Tours-Bordeaux on the HSL Sud-Europe-Atylantique, and Le Mans-Rennes and its spur to Sablé-sur-Sarthe on the HSL Bretagne-Pays de la Loire), and one more will be started as soon as possible (Nîmes-Montpellier on the HSL Languedoc).

That´s quite a Spanish-like schedule, and the costs of a HSL in France are much more expensive than in Spain. And no European economy can cope with much more than this right now, the way economy is going.
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Old August 25th, 2012, 08:58 AM   #565
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just love the thorough explanation through the mighty shake, rattle and roll
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Old February 18th, 2013, 09:41 PM   #566
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Request for (datalogger) speed graphs of TGV journeys, especially on LGV Est!

Merci d’avance pour votre cooperation!

This because the TGV theoretical is not able the maintain 300km/h on a 3,5% slope:

I posted this before in the wrong French railway thread... sorry

I calculate the total resistance force at 320km/h on a 3,5% slope of, for example, a TGV POS (A*cw=9m2; mass=390t; Pmax=9,6MW; Rolling resistance coefficient‎ =0,0003) than the total resistance force = 179kN. The force which the engine generates at 320km/h equals about 108kN. This is a difference of 160%. Simple conclusion: the train can’t maintain 320km/h on the 3,5% slope.

But on the LGV-Est the maximum gradient is 3,5% and if I see the YouTube video I get the impression that they run 320km/h the whole length of the LGV Est.

But I think that’s theoretical impossible. If the kinetic energy (Ek= ½ mv2) at the start of the slope is converted to potential energy (Ep) on the slope than the altitude of the train increases (Ep=mgh). But, like in a rollercoaster, the speed of the train decreases when the altitude increases. Also the resistance forces will slow down the train meanwhile the force of the engine will speed up the train. If these forces are multiplied with de distance travelled (x) they are converted to work (W=F*x). The potential energy between v0 (at the start of the slope) and v0 (at distance x on the slope) can be calculated with (where Wr=Work of resistance forces and We=Work of engine force):

Ekv0 – Ekv1 – Wr + We = Ep with Ep=m*g*sin(slope)*x

Rewrite to calculate the speed v1 after travelled distance x on the slope:

v1= √(2*(Ekv0 – Wr +We – Ep)/m)

I used this gradient graph to determine the slope and the length of the slope on the LGV Est between PK210-240 and put this data in excel to plot this graph:



For the green and purple Strasbourg-Paris TGVs a negative slope = uphill and a positive slope=downhill. This because they are travelling in opposite direction.

The purple V150 graph is to check my calculations with the recored speed of the record run as a reference. Although my calculations are very rough the speed drop at PK225 is visible in both graphs.

The graph shows a speed drop to 300km/h near the Meuse TGV station.

Last edited by TGV; February 21st, 2013 at 01:49 PM.
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Old February 26th, 2013, 08:18 PM   #567
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This thread is kind of empty...

I've just read that the second bore of Saverne tunnel on LGV Est 2nd phase has been holed through few days ago. I wasn't aware that the works have progressed that far already. The line is scheduled for opening in spring 2016.

http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/p...n-lgv-est.html

Anyone knows about the latest progress on Tours-Boredeaux line?
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Old February 27th, 2013, 05:14 PM   #568
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SNCF unveils Ouigo low-cost TGV service

From Railway Gazette

Quote:
SNCF President Guillaume Pepy and Director of the long-distance passenger business Barbara Dalibard unveiled details of the national operator's 'Ouigo' branded low-cost TGV service on February 19.

From April 2 Ouigo services will run from Marne-la-Vallée Chessy station on the eastern outskirts of Paris to Marseille and Montpellier. There will be three return services a day and four on Sundays.

Tickets can only be booked on line, with fares for the single class priced according to demand and ranging from €10 to €85. Children accompanied by an adult pay a flat fare of €5 and SNCF says that 25% of the seats will be sold at less than €25.

Four double-deck TGV Duplex sets have been refurbished at SNCF's Bischheim workshops to operate Ouigo services, operating in pairs to offer a total of 1.268 seats or 20% more than a standard formation. No catering facilities are provided and the bar area has been replaced with additional luggage space. Each Ouigo passenger is entitled to take one piece of baggage free of charge, up to two extra items being charged at €5 or €10 each.

To enable tickets to be checked before boarding, passengers are required to arrive at the station at least 30 min before departure. SNCF says at least four on-train personnel will be present during the journey.

'The challenge that we have wanted to meet is to reduce our operating costs by 30%', said Dalibard. According to Pepy, 'with unbeatable value for money and more choice for everyone, SNCF has created the model for hyper-accessible high-speed travel'.
I'm quite excited for this new offer. High-speed rail can be offered at lower costs without full crews and bar/restaurant cars, which coupled with pre-check of tickets allow slashing the size of crews.

OuiGo routes


OuGo livery


OuiGo 1+3 car


OuiGo 2+2 car
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Old February 27th, 2013, 06:10 PM   #569
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Required presence 30 minutes before departure is nuts. It effectively adds 30 minutes to the total trip time.
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Old February 27th, 2013, 06:17 PM   #570
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mcarling View Post
Required presence 30 minutes before departure is nuts. It effectively adds 30 minutes to the total trip time.
And if you add the time needed to get to Marne La Vallee...

You might end up being better of taking a TER...
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Old February 27th, 2013, 08:11 PM   #571
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K_ View Post
And if you add the time needed to get to Marne La Vallee...

You might end up being better of taking a TER...
This assumes that getting to the station in the center of Paris takes less time. Not necessarily true for those living in the suburbs.
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Old February 27th, 2013, 09:30 PM   #572
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunfuns View Post
This assumes that getting to the station in the center of Paris takes less time. Not necessarily true for those living in the suburbs.
exactly! Many people ignore this fact - that people don't necessarily live near stations, and that access time to HS central stations can be quite large for people living in the outskirts of major metro areas.
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Old February 27th, 2013, 09:38 PM   #573
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RFF charges

HEre I post some graphs by G. Huges blog on RFF charges

Path reservation fee (baseline)

2013/2014 data
.

Circulation fee (baseline)


there are several coefficient adjustments, but those are the baseline fares
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Old February 28th, 2013, 09:26 AM   #574
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
exactly! Many people ignore this fact -
People who know a thing or two about how transportation networks work don't ignore that people don't all live near major terminals. They are in fact acutely aware of it.
That is why they keep repeating that what matters is not so much speed, but how well the whole system is integrated, as people base their transportation choice decisions based on door to door times, not terminal to terminal times.
The person on this forum that seems to be least aware of this fact seems to be you...

Quote:
that people don't necessarily live near stations, and that access time to HS central stations can be quite large for people living in the outskirts of major metro areas.
I'm sure a lot more people live within 1 hour travel of Paris GDL than within 1/2 hour of Marne La Vallée...
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Old February 28th, 2013, 10:14 AM   #575
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunfuns View Post
This assumes that getting to the station in the center of Paris takes less time. Not necessarily true for those living in the suburbs.
For those who live in the immediate vicinity of Marne la Vallée, it will be easier.
But for those living in all other Paris suburbs, it will mean a first leg to Paris centre,
and then another leg to Marne la Vallée, as direct suburb to suburb connections are
almost inexistant.

So in total a better situation for 20% of the potential travellers, and far
worse for the other 80%.
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Old February 28th, 2013, 01:30 PM   #576
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I think they are aiming mostly at people who will park-and-ride.
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Old February 28th, 2013, 02:29 PM   #577
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcVD View Post
For those who live in the immediate vicinity of Marne la Vallée, it will be easier.
But for those living in all other Paris suburbs, it will mean a first leg to Paris centre,
and then another leg to Marne la Vallée, as direct suburb to suburb connections are
almost inexistant.

So in total a better situation for 20% of the potential travellers, and far
worse for the other 80%.
It's even worse. From Marne La Vallée to GDL is 35 minutes by train. Which means that someone actually living on the doorstep of the station would hardly be slower taking a regular TGV from GDL than a OUIGO...
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Old February 28th, 2013, 02:32 PM   #578
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
I think they are aiming mostly at people who will park-and-ride.
I suppose if you have a car you can't afford a normal TGV anyway...
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Old February 28th, 2013, 05:12 PM   #579
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K_ View Post
I suppose if you have a car you can't afford a normal TGV anyway...
Many people might consider travelling on high-speed train that resembles an air-travel experience (insulated, safe etc.) but not necessarily would consider taking a crappy subway with many stations without escalators/lifts just to get to Gare d Lyon.
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Old February 28th, 2013, 08:45 PM   #580
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Honestly, I don't see where the problem lies. Why not experiment and see if there is enough business for such a service? If there isn't it could always be witdrawn later or re-directed to GDL. It could very well be that decreased convenience is more than outweighed by low prices.

Low cost airlines often have crappy service and fly to secondary airports, but they are cheap and doing better business than most standard careers.
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